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-- UKC rules (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=488501)

What the kid probably learned is eliminating the competition is a viable part of the game. If his squalling didn't change the outcome what was the point it scratching him. Warn him and keep on hunting. I've said it before and I'll say it again you guys are the Scratch Happiest Bunch around.

The best thing UKC could do would be to revise its rules to keep hunters in a cast instead of giving an untold number of ways to scratch cast members.

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WOW SOME OF YOU PEOPLE ARE @#%%^&&%^%&* RULES ARE RULES NOW WHAT ARE YOU TEACHING A KID IF YOU DONT TREAT HIM JUST LIKE ANYBODY ELSE??? IF IT WERE MY KID I WOULD SCRATCH HIM IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE TEACH OUR KIDS THE PROPER WAY TO BE ADULTS

NOW IS IT NOT WORTH $15 ENTRY TO TEACH A KID A LESSON HE WILL PROBABLY NEVER FORGET, ????

I HAVE SEEN 14 YR OLD KIDS SMARTER THAN SOME OF YOU ADULTS AND EVEN BETTER HANDLERS TO

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I'VE HAD TO SCRATCH KIDS IN YOUTH CASTS BEFORE. IT IS ALL PART OF LEARNING THE GAME. YOU CAN'T PLAY ANY SPORT WITHOUT GETTING "THROWN OUT OF THE GAME" IT'S THE SAME THING... IF YOU CALL THIS COONHUNTING GIG A SPORT.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF SOME OF YOU GUYS SAT AT YOUR SON'S LITTLE LEAGUE GAMES AND COMPLAINED THAT THE KIDS DESERVE 4 STRIKES AND 4 OUTS TOO.

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Even if you set aside the fact that this was an 11 year old boy and just consider that it was a beginner of any age any sense of fairplay or sportsmanship seems to go out the window with some of you if you can justify your bad behavior by finding something on the back of the scorecard to hide behind. UKC. doesnt provide any educational format that lets the beginner learn without being "thrown out of the game" so to speak.
All this (i got screwed when i was a kid) and it made me a better handler stuff is just another lame excuse for not doing the sportsmanlike thing. An annology to little league is way off BASE pardon the pun... unless those little leaugers are competing with the major league players.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

ANYONE should know the rules before entering any hunt. If you don't, then don't complain if it bites you in the a$$. I have taken time during alot of hunts to explain different rules to kids. I don't mind doing it. Alot of people don't want to.

To all parents, Its not anyones place to teach the rules but yours. If the cast has to, the child will probally learn the hard way.
It's hard to scratch a child just starting out. It would have to be a major infraction of the rules or a situation that was going to change the rightfull cast winner before I would resort to it.

The worse thing that can happen on a hunt with a child is a parent as a spectater that cannot keep his mouth shut. Parent is almost always showing child how to be a poor sport in this scenerio.

One of the best cast I ever judged was the PKC YOUTH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. AWESOME kids that showed more sportsmanship that most adults I have judged. Oldest one was 16 and I believe each one had a pretty good knowledge of the rules.

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
Even if you set aside the fact that this was an 11 year old boy and just consider that it was a beginner of any age any sense of fairplay or sportsmanship seems to go out the window with some of you if you can justify your bad behavior by finding something on the back of the scorecard to hide behind. UKC. doesnt provide any educational format that lets the beginner learn without being "thrown out of the game" so to speak.
All this (i got screwed when i was a kid) and it made me a better handler stuff is just another lame excuse for not doing the sportsmanlike thing. An annology to little league is way off BASE pardon the pun... unless those little leaugers are competing with the major league players.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cooncrazy2
I know everyone has a opinion so here is mine, I think that the more experienced hunters on that cast should have kinda talked with the kid and made sure he knew what all to do and not to do , like not squalling until the time was up etc, we need to be more concerned about our youth and keeping them involved in our great sport and not bullying them around until they find something else to get into that might not be so good like (DRUGS) I belive it is sports like coonhunting that keep kids off of crap like that. So what if his dog won be a man shake his hand and tell him good job. I am not saying let him by with breaking the rules but tell him what he did wrong and give the kid a 2nd chance I bet he wouldnt have done it again , we have to understand that as adults in a sport that these kids are interested in they look up to us and we need to be man or woman enough to take that role. If winning a hunt is more inportant than our youth we are all in bad shape because we will be the last coonhunters. JMO

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Re: UKC rules

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Hill
if people ae going to hunt in these hunts they need to read the rules.At the aoura hunt this weekend all dog werent treed we had a 11 year old boy hunting with us he started squalling before the 7 minutes were up.he got scratched but he broke the rule so he got scrachted.hated to do it but it was a qualifer.I think he learned alot that nite.I think i could of called interference because my dog didnt have the coon.but I didnt because he missed the tree and he is a good enough dog he should of had him.The rules are there for a reaon.If we dont go by the back of that rule card your not playing the game right.I try my hardest to be far.I like to stay on top of the game and by doing thta if my dog deseves minus points i will be the first to minus my dog by telling the judge minus him.I MADE HIM A GRAND NITE BY BEING HONEST AND HE IS A GOOD HOUND.iT IS A SPORT AND I TRY TO BE THE BEST SPORT AND HONEST AS I CAN BE ,THE REASON HE GOT SCRATCHED NOT ALL THE DOGS WERE DECLARED TREEDi ALSO THINK THE GARMINS WILL GET ALOT OF PEOPLE IN TROUBLE WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT USING THEM
mIKE

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Two years ago I entered a hunt about an hour and 30 minutes from my house.

4 dog cast at a state championship hunt.

We casted our 4 dogs and there was a 15 or 16 year old in the cast(first hunt)

He treed his dog and it was ovbiously not treeing so he was minused and a few minutes later is dog shows up at out feet as were walking to 2 dogs treed. Well when his dog came up to him he put his dog on the leash. The judge scratched him and he looked really dipressed and embarrassed. Well i'm here to tell you that he has NEVER been in another hunt since that night.

Lets be realistic here, these hunts are not growing with all time numbers people. Be happy when youths get involved, explain rules as the cast goes on to them. If they make a mistake that is a scratchable mistake that effects the hunt scratch them and explain why.

I don't agree with babying anyone but with youths and even adults getting into it the first time they need to learn by us and NOT byt getting scratched. You may call it learning the hard way, I call it MAKING SOMEONE NOT WANT TO COME BACK.

Many new comers are hesitant as it is to enter their first hunt. They enter hoping to have a good time win or loose. Often times the first impression of a nite hunt will dictate weather otr not they will be back.

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heres my take if you have a kid in your cast (IF) HE OR SHE COMMITTS A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE THEN SCRATCH THEM BUT ALSO EXPLAIN WHY IF THE KID TAKES IT THE WRONG WAY THEN THAT JUST MIGHT BE THE KID THAT WE DONT NEED IN THIS SPORT

WHY CANT PEOPLE ADMIT THEY SCREWED UP ?
I HAVE SCREWED UP A LOT I HAVE BEEN SCRATRCHED 1 TIME I HAVE TOOK MINUS FOR MAKEING BAD CALLS , I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AROUND DOES THAT BOTHER ME TODAY H*LL NO IT HAS PROBABLY MADE ME A BETTER HANDLER AND SPORTSMAN TODAY
IF I GET KNOCKED DOWN I GET BACK UP , IF WE TREAT KIDS LIKE SOME OF YOU WANT TO THEN WE ARE CREATING WHAT ??? PROBLEMS FOR THE FUTURE

(AN ADULT THAT WONT BE ABLE TO LOOSE WITHOUT BEING CHEATED)

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handler for hire?

Your tough talk post about scratching kids is well explained when you look at the bottom and see--Handler for hire.
Thats a lot of the problem with hunts today, people taking it way too serious, you used to go to a local club hunt and have a hard time finding a place to park, you sure don't have to worry about that now, Grow up.

Re: handler for hire?

quote:

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Originally posted by barrelmaker
Your tough talk post about scratching kids is well explained when you look at the bottom and see--Handler for hire.
Thats a lot of the problem with hunts today, people taking it way too serious, you used to go to a local club hunt and have a hard time finding a place to park, you sure don't have to worry about that now, Grow up.

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competition hunt

To answer your question; I started competition hunting in 1965, placed second in the ACHA world hunt once, top ten 3 times, have had several Gr.Nt. Ch. dogs, the last one in 2009 I won the nite ch hunt at walker days to finish him out, high scoring dog in the state of Missouri the same year, RQE winner, etc.

I've been around the block several times and I've seen kids really enthused about hunting that quit entirely because of experiences they had at competition hunts. I don't think they should be babied but they shouldn't be hammered on like the two hour maniacs do grown ups.

Slow down, life's way too short and precious to get upset over a coonhunt.

Tom

Re: competition hunt

quote:

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Originally posted by barrelmaker
To answer your question; I started competition hunting in 1965, placed second in the ACHA world hunt once, top ten 3 times, have had several Gr.Nt. Ch. dogs, the last one in 2009 I won the nite ch hunt at walker days to finish him out, high scoring dog in the state of Missouri the same year, RQE winner, etc.

I've been around the block several times and I've seen kids really enthused about hunting that quit entirely because of experiences they had at competition hunts. I don't think they should be babied but they shouldn't be hammered on like the two hour maniacs do grown ups.

Slow down, life's way too short and precious to get upset over a coonhunt.

Tom

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I agree.
I don't like the rule, but....it is the rule.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Well I hate not being able to squal as soon as shine time starts. I firmly believe if the dog did its job and stayed treed it deserves to have the tree scored the best way possible. Once those leaves come on standing around for 7 minutes is pretty stupid.

But hey like I told another guy one night, when we enter a UKC hunt we are agreeing to abide by their rules not ours.

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True. I bring kids to almost every hunt (at least my 15 yr. old "partner in crime" son if not others). I'm all about TEACHING kids. Sometimes, that means showing "grace" sometimes it means "tanning their hide". What will make better kids? That's the question to ask.
Teaching them to follow rules make make far less cheaters for the future. Whether or not you need to scratch them (I may have in that particular hunt - depends on the situation), you still need to teach them.
We have had similar situations with adults and kids. We usually correct them quickly and tell them the rule. They usually are very apologetic and you won't see them make that mistake again.

quote:

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Originally posted by goodtimekennel
heres my take if you have a kid in your cast (IF) HE OR SHE COMMITTS A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE THEN SCRATCH THEM BUT ALSO EXPLAIN WHY IF THE KID TAKES IT THE WRONG WAY THEN THAT JUST MIGHT BE THE KID THAT WE DONT NEED IN THIS SPORT

WHY CANT PEOPLE ADMIT THEY SCREWED UP ?
I HAVE SCREWED UP A LOT I HAVE BEEN SCRATRCHED 1 TIME I HAVE TOOK MINUS FOR MAKEING BAD CALLS , I HAVE BEEN PUSHED AROUND DOES THAT BOTHER ME TODAY H*LL NO IT HAS PROBABLY MADE ME A BETTER HANDLER AND SPORTSMAN TODAY
IF I GET KNOCKED DOWN I GET BACK UP , IF WE TREAT KIDS LIKE SOME OF YOU WANT TO THEN WE ARE CREATING WHAT ??? PROBLEMS FOR THE FUTURE

(AN ADULT THAT WONT BE ABLE TO LOOSE WITHOUT BEING CHEATED)

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?

I bet the kid was winning or had a nice dog. If the fear of losing is there a lot of judges will be strict. If things are running in their favor they will be more leniant. But, the kid did make a scratchable offense.

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I see both sides of this subject. I understand that some say give him a second chance, and that others say scratch him so he will learn. I personally think this: If it were my son, and yes I do have a son, If he breaks the rules, any rule or rules, he will be SCRATCHED. I don't care if he's 5, 11, or 16 years old. He will be scratched. Kids these days have no consiquenses for their actions. I was scratched and cheated so much when i was a kid it would take me all night to talk about it. If a kid has the true passion for hunting hounds like most of us on this forum do, he won't quit over one scratch he will be back.

quote:

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Originally posted by cranberry
I see both sides of this subject. I understand that some say give him a second chance, and that others say scratch him so he will learn. I personally think this: If it were my son, and yes I do have a son, If he breaks the rules, any rule or rules, he will be SCRATCHED. I don't care if he's 5, 11, or 16 years old. He will be scratched. Kids these days have no consiquenses for their actions. I was scratched and cheated so much when i was a kid it would take me all night to talk about it. If a kid has the true passion for hunting hounds like most of us on this forum do, he won't quit over one scratch he will be back.

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I never seen a grown man so happy to brag about scratching a kid for something silly .... you could have lived a lifetime and not exploded over keeping it to yourself .

I think if that young man comes back to a hunt at your club and your the judge he will prob execise another rule and that is the right to withdraw his dog before the hunt because he dont want to hunt with a judge like you. in my own opinion RQE or not he should have been warned

quote:

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Originally posted by cooncrazy2
I know everyone has a opinion so here is mine, I think that the more experienced hunters on that cast should have kinda talked with the kid and made sure he knew what all to do and not to do , like not squalling until the time was up etc, we need to be more concerned about our youth and keeping them involved in our great sport and not bullying them around until they find something else to get into that might not be so good like (DRUGS) I belive it is sports like coonhunting that keep kids off of crap like that. So what if his dog won be a man shake his hand and tell him good job. I am not saying let him by with breaking the rules but tell him what he did wrong and give the kid a 2nd chance I bet he wouldnt have done it again , we have to understand that as adults in a sport that these kids are interested in they look up to us and we need to be man or woman enough to take that role. If winning a hunt is more inportant than our youth we are all in bad shape because we will be the last coonhunters. JMO

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dirtdevil
I never seen a grown man so happy to brag about scratching a kid for something silly .... you could have lived a lifetime and not exploded over keeping it to yourself .

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Heck, some folks teach 5 yr old kids how to shoplift these days.

I guess all of you that think the man done the wrong thing by scratching the boy teach your kids theyre is no reprocussions for doing wrong.. If you play a game you must play by the rules.. Do you get pissed at your kids t ball umpires because your kids got called out instead of safe?

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