UKC Forums - Dogs fighting at tree/Handled before the 5 is up.

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-- Dogs fighting at tree/Handled before the 5 is up. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=488320)

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-06-2012 01:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Corey Taylor
Per the UKC rule book - a dog will be scratched for fighting or attempting to fight during the authority of the judge. Dogs name, UKC number and owner's name will be reported to UKC on Nite Hunt report form. No handler will be allowed to scratch his dog to avoid his dog from being scratched for fighting. When the aggressor dog is known, scratch the aggressor only. If not known, scratch dogs involved.

nice corey what rule was it

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Posted by Corey Taylor on 03-06-2012 02:01 AM:

Under UKC NITE HUNTS OFFICIAL NITE HUNT HONOR RULES section under the section dogs will be scratched. I think its page 58.

Posted by oklared on 03-06-2012 02:05 AM:

SCRATCH THE DOG, THE OWNER AND THE HANDLER= ALMOST ELIMINATE ALL THE FUSSY DOGS.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-06-2012 02:14 AM:

Give me 1 more Corey dog Must hold its tree for 5 min.
should be pretty easy 2

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Posted by joe3772 on 03-06-2012 02:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
joe, your question assumes you must see a fight to know it happened. We all know you don't. If the judge sees the fight and scratches the dog, the only way it can be overturned is if the cast majority convinces the MOH there was no fight. Bottom line......you gonna own up to what happened or lie to the MOH?

The aggressor was seen by the judge in this situation when he jumped on the other dog full throttle. Only problem is he was to the top of said bluff bank where dogs were treed and rest of cast coming up bank. The Pos in question ran another dog off tree 20 minutes later could hear dogs but couldn't get to them that time fast enough to see.

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Posted by redtickhunterDG on 03-06-2012 03:48 AM:

I HAVE NO ROOM AT MY HOUSE FOR A MEAN DOG! I WILL CULL ANY DOG THAT IS ROUGH, YOURS TO IF YOU DONT HAVE THE GONADS TO DO IT. HATE HATE THE DEFENDERS OF THE GATORS.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-06-2012 11:45 AM:

Sure are a lot of folks not wanting to scratch them. What's up with that?? Ain't none of them totally innocent if they are locked up rolling around anyhow! Was prolly a idiot tree jacker what started the fight in the first place. LoL.

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Posted by copperheadcreek on 03-06-2012 12:06 PM:

here is how i read the rule, if there are 2 dogs treed and i hear all he(( break out, then both of those dogs are scratched and wrote up. the only one that has to see or hear the fight is the judge and it is at his/her descretion, not tne casts. another example.... you turn out 4 dogs NITE CH CAST all 4 open and are struck in, 2 trail to the right on a cold track, the other 2 peel out left barking every breath and running 500 miles per hour, the entire cast knows that those 2 are chasing deer, do the cast have to see the deer or can he scratch them for running off game???

cant wait to see the replies here.... mike

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Posted by wvcoonhunters3 on 03-06-2012 12:55 PM:

WHY NOT INTERFERENCE ,WE USE IT FOR EVERY THING ELS. CALL TIME OUT, SORT IT OUT;MOVE ON.

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Posted by copperheadcreek on 03-06-2012 01:49 PM:

because interference is NOT an option. if you dont know the agressor then ALL dogs involved are scratched period... end of discussion , black and white. no other choices

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Posted by JiM on 03-06-2012 02:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by copperheadcreek
here is how i read the rule, if there are 2 dogs treed and i hear all he(( break out, then both of those dogs are scratched and wrote up. the only one that has to see or hear the fight is the judge and it is at his/her descretion, not tne casts. another example.... you turn out 4 dogs NITE CH CAST all 4 open and are struck in, 2 trail to the right on a cold track, the other 2 peel out left barking every breath and running 500 miles per hour, the entire cast knows that those 2 are chasing deer, do the cast have to see the deer or can he scratch them for running off game???

cant wait to see the replies here.... mike

Of course the judge can scratch them for off game. Getting the MOH to back you might be a whole nother matter......
A judge can scratch anyone for anything. Don't mean they will stay scratched.

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Posted by thebigcat454545 on 03-06-2012 02:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by copperheadcreek
here is how i read the rule, if there are 2 dogs treed and i hear all he(( break out, then both of those dogs are scratched and wrote up. the only one that has to see or hear the fight is the judge and it is at his/her descretion, not tne casts. another example.... you turn out 4 dogs NITE CH CAST all 4 open and are struck in, 2 trail to the right on a cold track, the other 2 peel out left barking every breath and running 500 miles per hour, the entire cast knows that those 2 are chasing deer, do the cast have to see the deer or can he scratch them for running off game???

cant wait to see the replies here.... mike

You cant just assume and start scratching dogs. I was at a hunt once and 3 dogs took off 500 miles an hr and even the handlers said that it sounded like off game, they took this thing 1/2 mile and i mean flat out getting it....after about 5 min they came treed and had the coon. everyone in the cast thought they were on off game and they wernt. I think a judge should see whats up before they just start scratching....now fighting is another story....If I hear a fight and start to the tree and dogs quickly stop i would give them a min. to see whats up, if nothing happens again and i cant figure out the aggressor we will continue to hunt...now if there balled up when i get there and the aggressor is not determind they will both be gone. most people thinks the dog winning the fight is the aggressor...that's not always the case.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-06-2012 03:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by copperheadcreek
here is how i read the rule, if there are 2 dogs treed and i hear all he(( break out, then both of those dogs are scratched and wrote up. the only one that has to see or hear the fight is the judge and it is at his/her descretion, not tne casts. another example.... you turn out 4 dogs NITE CH CAST all 4 open and are struck in, 2 trail to the right on a cold track, the other 2 peel out left barking every breath and running 500 miles per hour, the entire cast knows that those 2 are chasing deer, do the cast have to see the deer or can he scratch them for running off game???

cant wait to see the replies here.... mike

just curious what is off game got to do with dogs fighting?
we all know any time a dog barks more than 3 times on a
track its scratch.

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Posted by thebigcat454545 on 03-06-2012 03:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
just curious what is off game got to do with dogs fighting?
we all know any time a dog barks more than 3 times on a
track its scratch.

There not scratched unless you dont stike them.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 03-06-2012 03:19 PM:

It makes alot more sense to me for guys to just read the rules and apply them while pleasure hunting. So many, and I mean MANY arguments could be avoided if people would just take time to read and apply the rules.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 03-06-2012 03:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by thebigcat454545
There not scratched unless you dont stike them.

they should be culled if they cant tree in 3 barks.lol

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Posted by thebigcat454545 on 03-06-2012 04:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
It makes alot more sense to me for guys to just read the rules and apply them while pleasure hunting. So many, and I mean MANY arguments could be avoided if people would just take time to read and apply the rules.

I agree with you!! the only problem with that is 10 people can read the rules and get 6 different interpretations. I always thought that clubs should take 20 min at ea. meeting going over a section of the rules and have a QA on them. It would make for better hunts.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-06-2012 04:59 PM:

To me it would make more since to make the rules more simple. It would allso improve the hounds. Like just scoreing tree points. Another good one to me is one a lot would hate. Like if a dog is split treed and the rest of the dogs are under the same COON then it gets minused for not working with the cast. Oh we allready have a rule about working with the cast. LOL

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Posted by rooster40 on 03-06-2012 05:24 PM:

How can you scratch dogs you never seen fighting jus because you heard something . Sounds like a way to scratch dogs to get them out of the hunt

Posted by Randy Tallon on 03-06-2012 05:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
2 dogs treed and you hear a bunch of bs going on so the cast moves in close to tree to observe the 2 dogs treeing while there is still 2 min left on tree. Dog A peels dog B off of tree and both dogs are in a real humdinger now. We know dog A is scratched for being the aggressor but lets say dog B is on top of dog A... can dog B be handled to stop the fight or would you have to wait until A was on top or the five was up?

Dog A is the known aggressor. "He peeled Dog B off the tree.". Doesn't matter who is on top after it is started. Dog A started it. His backside couldn't handle what his mouth got him into.

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Posted by 1nighthunter on 03-06-2012 06:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by copperheadcreek
here is how i read the rule, if there are 2 dogs treed and i hear all he(( break out, then both of those dogs are scratched and wrote up. the only one that has to see or hear the fight is the judge and it is at his/her descretion, not tne casts. another example.... you turn out 4 dogs NITE CH CAST all 4 open and are struck in, 2 trail to the right on a cold track, the other 2 peel out left barking every breath and running 500 miles per hour, the entire cast knows that those 2 are chasing deer, do the cast have to see the deer or can he scratch them for running off game???

cant wait to see the replies here.... mike

Scratch them yet 99 % of the Master of Hounds will not back it but if 2 dogs are treed and you can scratch them for fighting with out seeing it than the same for trash or light broke possum dog etc

And one other thing this almost always happens when a dog fight breaks out everybody still has to stay together if you do not than the cast members who broke out in a dead run are scratched for not staying together or the judge for not keeping the cast together

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Posted by Cornbelt on 03-06-2012 07:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Randy Tallon
Dog A is the known aggressor. "He peeled Dog B off the tree.". Doesn't matter who is on top after it is started. Dog A started it. His backside couldn't handle what his mouth got him into.

The question I'm asking is.... since the 5 is not up on the tree can we get dog B off of dog A since that would mean handling B before the 5 was up? Or say A is on top and when we peel him off B goes after him.... now what?

The problem with discussing the rules at club meetings is the same problem discussing them here.... many answers but no one knows which answer is ukc approved.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-06-2012 07:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by 1nighthunter
Scratch them yet 99 % of the Master of Hounds will not back it but if 2 dogs are treed and you can scratch them for fighting with out seeing it than the same for trash or light broke possum dog etc

And one other thing this almost always happens when a dog fight breaks out everybody still has to stay together if you do not than the cast members who broke out in a dead run are scratched for not staying together or the judge for not keeping the cast together

The handlers agreed the dogs were fighting or they wouldn't had ran to get there dogs. So they get scratched for fighting(both of them). Now if you can get the handlers to agree that there dog is running off game or light broke them scratch or minuse them as the rules apply.

Posted by JiM on 03-06-2012 07:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
The question I'm asking is.... since the 5 is not up on the tree can we get dog B off of dog A since that would mean handling B before the 5 was up? Or say A is on top and when we peel him off B goes after him.... now what?

The problem with discussing the rules at club meetings is the same problem discussing them here.... many answers but no one knows which answer is ukc approved.

Do you mean a situation where dog A was judged the aggressor and so would be the only dog scratched......can we pull dog B off of dog A and then what? Is that your question? I'd pull dog B off and once dog A was lead away and things are back normal, you let dog B go back treeing and finish running the 5. If dog B leaves, minus tree points. Because I don't know of any exception to the 5 minute rule.

Posted by thebigcat454545 on 03-06-2012 08:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cornbelt
The question I'm asking is.... since the 5 is not up on the tree can we get dog B off of dog A since that would mean handling B before the 5 was up? Or say A is on top and when we peel him off B goes after him.... now what?

The problem with discussing the rules at club meetings is the same problem discussing them here.... many answers but no one knows which answer is ukc approved.

A hunt director or MOH is at alot of clubs during mtgs. I can see how these arguments get going though. I say let them argue until its figured out. it's better then arguing during a hunt when everyones competitive blood is flowing.

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