UKC Forums - Lets do away with HUNTING JUDGES

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-- Lets do away with HUNTING JUDGES (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=486555)

Posted by Autumn Clements on 02-28-2012 01:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hey Preacher!!!
NONE OF THIS ADDRESSES THE ISSUE OF FINDING NON-HUNTING JUGDES IN SMALL LOCAL EVENTS!!!

none of the clubs around here would be able to keep running if they did away with non hunting judges, the numbers are low as it is and most of the people that go are hunting.

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Posted by B&LKennels on 02-28-2012 01:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Diggerman
I disagree, Being a hunting judge is a big disadvantage if you ask me.If you got time to call your dog ,keep time,keep the score card,answer questions and listen to bitchin,you shouldn't have time to cheat.

Well i know for a FACT that they still find time to CHEAT. Seen it done quite a few time's.... Was in a cast with a guy who was a master {disaster} of hound's, his dog struck and run track for a couple minutes and came back in to us he said we have got to walk down in the wood's because we walked over the track his dog was running.wouldn't minus his dog ,yes he was the judge. I volunteer to be a non hunting judge because i don't do the hunt thing anymore.Have had a couple guy's scratch there dog as soon as they found out i was there judge.

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Posted by barrelmaker on 02-28-2012 01:56 AM:

You might be surprised, if your club advertised there would be no hunting judges there would be a lot of people show up that normally wouldn't. I agree it's difficult to judge and hunt---If you are wanting to do the right thing, problem is so many of the clubs hand the scorecard to one of the local "two hour maniacs" who will do anything to win a cast, I've seen it happen too many times to count. It's gotten completely out of hand and something has to be done to straighten things out, someone mentioned the bass tournaments where you can now put up money and make someone take a lie detector test, if they refuse to take it they forfeit the win, we used to have the same thing in drag racing with money put up for a tear down, over half the people challenged forfeited the win.

Tom

Posted by curtis hansley on 02-28-2012 02:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jammie Crumpton
How about get rid of the NON HUNTING COMPUTER INTERNET HUNTERS

.LOL. I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING.

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 02-28-2012 02:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by B&LKennels
Well i know for a FACT that they still find time to CHEAT. Seen it done quite a few time's.... Was in a cast with a guy who was a master {disaster} of hound's, his dog struck and run track for a couple minutes and came back in to us he said we have got to walk down in the wood's because we walked over the track his dog was running.wouldn't minus his dog ,yes he was the judge. I volunteer to be a non hunting judge because i don't do the hunt thing anymore.Have had a couple guy's scratch there dog as soon as they found out i was there judge.

Sounds like to me the other cast members wasn't doing there jobs as handlers to make the judge take his minus. Alot of the time, the hunting judge is no better than the handlers he is with.

Hunting judges are just as crooked as non- hunting judges. I don't care what judges me, when I am not judging, I have been burnt by both.

Biggest problem I encounter as a judge, is alot of handlers don't know the rules and argue with a hunting judge that does know the rules. Then run back and tell his buddies how he got cheated.

As in any sport, there is going to be cheating by a few, they just can't help themselves. I've seen some cheat when they would have won if they didn't cheat. It is just the nature of some people.

Posted by J Strickland on 02-28-2012 03:11 AM:

I blame my handler first and formost for not knowing the RULES like I told him he needs to LEARN THE RULES in and out. I have not comp hunted since 2007-2008 I just get them ready for the hunts and I hunt every night sometimes from dark to dust. I know there is NO WAY you can GET RID OF HUNTING JUDGES because if you did then you wouldnt have NO JUDGES to show up to JUDGE CAST and if you did would they be qualified to JUDGE and then you would have to worry about the NON HUNTING judge being paid off there will always be a way to cheat in the hunts, You just gotta be SMARTER thats all I know.

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Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 02-28-2012 03:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by J Strickland
I blame my handler first and formost for not knowing the RULES like I told him he needs to LEARN THE RULES in and out. I have not comp hunted since 2007-2008 I just get them ready for the hunts and I hunt every night sometimes from dark to dust. I know there is NO WAY you can GET RID OF HUNTING JUDGES because if you did then you wouldnt have NO JUDGES to show up to JUDGE CAST and if you did would they be qualified to JUDGE and then you would have to worry about the NON HUNTING judge being paid off there will always be a way to cheat in the hunts, You just gotta be SMARTER thats all I know.

You are hitting the nail on the head. If you handler learns the rules inside and out, it is less likely he will be cheated. Once a week link is found in a handler, they will walk all over him.

Have him learn the rules and stand up for himself and alot of the cheating will dissappear.

Posted by d ryals on 02-28-2012 03:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jammie Crumpton
How about get rid of the NON HUNTING COMPUTER INTERNET HUNTERS

my thoughts exactly

Posted by Gary E Redfern on 02-28-2012 03:32 AM:

Between high gas prices and cheating, its just about ruined our sport, Draw 2 buddy;s in a 3 dog cast your in trouble, no matter how well you know the rules.

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Posted by Brian Gray on 02-28-2012 03:36 AM:

IF YOU LET THEM CHEAT YOU THEN YOUR THE GUILTY ONE! JMO

Posted by jeffrey robinso on 02-28-2012 03:36 AM:

It was stated in an earlier post that most people don't know what goes into putting on a hunt and that is very true. I am a member of 4 different clubs and know first hand what goes into putting on a hunt. I hear these statements about non hunting judges or why don't your club put on a RQE or big hunt. I wish UKC would make it mandatory that you had to have a card proving you were a member in good standing in a coon club to participate in UKC events then everyone would know what goes on behind the scenes to make these hunts happen and then they would think before they made these statements.

Posted by Bobby Reynolds on 02-28-2012 04:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Gary E Redfern
Between high gas prices and cheating, its just about ruined our sport, Draw 2 buddy;s in a 3 dog cast your in trouble, no matter how well you know the rules.

I agree with you Boogie. But I will also say this, I told you about a 3 dog cast I was on a while back where I got out voted. If I had put a question up, I think I would of won it based on what the other two handlers were admitting to already. But I chose not to question it.

Now you told me about a 3 dog cast your son was on last weekend that he was out voted on. Based on what you told me the judge had said, if Austin would have question the call, there was a fair chance the MOH would have ruled in his favor.

But either way, knowing the rules and standing up for yourself will cut down on you getting cheated.

Posted by Cowboyred on 02-28-2012 04:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by barrelmaker
You might be surprised, if your club advertised there would be no hunting judges there would be a lot of people show up that normally wouldn't. I agree it's difficult to judge and hunt---If you are wanting to do the right thing, problem is so many of the clubs hand the scorecard to one of the local "two hour maniacs" who will do anything to win a cast, I've seen it happen too many times to count. It's gotten completely out of hand and something has to be done to straighten things out, someone mentioned the bass tournaments where you can now put up money and make someone take a lie detector test, if they refuse to take it they forfeit the win, we used to have the same thing in drag racing with money put up for a tear down, over half the people challenged forfeited the win.

Tom

Well I would hope they had a pleasant and scenic drive. At many smaller clubs if they aren't one of the first 12-16 dogs there, odds are they're going to be headed back home at deadline. If you're thinking that a club shouldn't be holding hunts if they can only put 16 dogs in the woods consider this: how many "active" members do many small clubs have? How many of that number can you count on to show up just to judge, and are they qualified to do so? You need a minimum of 5 people committed to judging to put 15-16 dogs out. Ideally it would only require 4, but you could end up with say 10 open dogs and 6 Nt.Ch,'s=5 casts, 4-3dog casts and 1-4 dog cast. How many members will neglect to show up knowing they will be expected to judge and will not be able to hunt?
Personally, I would be just as upset at being turned away after driving to a hunt as if someone tried the "two hour maniac" drill in my cast. At least I can question calls, vote, and if necessay file a complaint if it needs to go that far.
Every hunting judge you take out of the equation also costs the club an entry.

Posted by blueticker on 02-28-2012 04:39 AM:

I really enjoy competition hunting with a honest non hunting judge. The local clubs have problems getting enough non hunting judges. If you draw a dishonest non hunting judge you should scratch your dog and head for camp.

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Posted by Chris Sterrett on 02-28-2012 04:45 AM:

At our club I never turn down a judge if they ask to judge unless it is someone I know is dishonest. If u feel confident in the rules and feel better holding the card I would ask at entry time if u could judge.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 02-28-2012 04:58 AM:

It's the American Way now-a-days...........
I don't want to do it.
That would mean I'd have to judge the cast myself , or be willing to put a question on the card and call for a vote or take it to the MOH. I'd have to stand up for myself.
Can't have that. I want someone else to do it for me. LOL

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Posted by Cowboyred on 02-28-2012 05:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
It's the American Way now-a-days...........
I don't want to do it.
That would mean I'd have to judge the cast myself , or be willing to put a question on the card and call for a vote or take it to the MOH. I'd have to stand up for myself.
Can't have that. I want someone else to do it for me. LOL

Yep, or I want the reward but I don't want to have to put in any work to get it! I'm entitled to hunt and it's your job to provide that for me.

Posted by Walker9615 on 02-28-2012 05:30 AM:

Cheaters..... low numbers in clubs

From a outsiders perspective i can probally say why such low numbers in clubs an y they couldnt survive without hunting judges. An anyone with common sense would to if theyve read this forum lately. Ive realized Comp hunting is all but rigged an ur either getting cheated on by a bunch of buddies or ur winning an having to listen to everyone else bitch bc they didnt. So my point is why in the heck would any decent person want to attend or enter a hunt much less join the club, when ur either gonna get screwed over from the start or ur gonna have to listen to a bunch of whining an sore losers . Is the majority of comp hunters just liars an crooks? An the rest a bunch of pansies who either are to lazy to learn the rules or wont stand up for themselves an call the people out? Or is it people dont know the rules an the other handler does an really isnt cheatin? If u dont know the rules then thats ur fault but if the handler besides u does an is honest then hes not gonna cheat anyway. idk but i have seen on here a handful of times guys admit they got out called or just didnt have the dog power. Hell also from what ive seen how would anyone else other than the judge (aka possible buddy of a cast member) know if someones dog treed ten coons or ten slicks bc most people ive seen never even attempt to shine or find a coon in another dogs tree anyway. So if u didnt look then well u really dont know what if anything was there! JMO an we know how far they go.

Posted by POTOMAC on 02-28-2012 05:55 AM:

There is a thing called a coon dog

They carnet cheat you if your packing a dawg ,you can't cheat two eyes looking down,, quit crying ,let's face it no more competition than there is today if a dog is not a nite ch in five hunts he or she is not ready to be there,the biggest problem is most don't want to do the work moon thru fri. To make a dawg. Second if your treeing coons it doesn't matter you win and if you get in the buddy system and they are truly trying to screw you that is what the grey box is for ,it's sad but the truth you don't have to worry about someone pitching on your dog when your dog is alone,jmo most dogs and owners that are complaining would have been scratched fifteen tears ago t and donwhen there was non hunting judges and three hour hunts,and one thing for sure if a dog made a title back then you can bet he earned it,every body today wants that nine month old grand and will do just about anything to get it , we as a hole need to take a step back and reconsider what's important and what's rite.the only ones were hurting is ourselves and our breeds we choose to hunt by our actions and breeding practices.most have blown there dogs up so much to there buddies and on these boards that if they go to a Hunt and don't win they have to come up with some reason like they got cheated or something else to safe face about all the blowing they have done on there own dogs! Put your pride in your pocket ,be honest with yourself and everyone else there just dogs and if you think having a grand nite make you a better person or more important than there lies a problem itself! Jmo what's wrong with I got beat by a better dog tonite!!!!!! Think about it

Posted by l.lyle on 02-28-2012 06:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jammie Crumpton
How about get rid of the NON HUNTING COMPUTER INTERNET HUNTERS

This one has been seconded a good bit and I would like to know why. Is it an excuse to divert attention from your real problem? How could a non- hunting hunter affect your outcome???

Maybe because I would suggest hitting the "voice notes" on my phone as soon as the dogs were cast and stick within a foot of the judge all night. See exactly who called what to the second, and when did they say it. I bet that would put a shut-up on some slick handling. Maybe a hunting judge that knows he's got idiots out to accuse him with might want to try the voicenotes thing. Mine can even pick up a dog about a quarter mile out on a good night just to see if he got pitched. Yes I can se why you don't want an objective solution to be offered . Just call me the NoN Hunting Computer Internet Hunter! But I am not. I bet I hunt as much or more than you. Just not in the Comp circuits for the reasons aforementioned.

Posted by K. Singletary on 02-28-2012 02:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Chris.S
The only thing worse than a crooked hunting judge is a crooked NON HUNTING JUDGE. The worse eyeball gouging scr... job I've ever received was at the hands of a non hunting judge!

X5....I would much rather have a cast vote decide my fate than 1 biased judge.

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Posted by Tully on 02-28-2012 03:55 PM:

For everyone against hunting judges

Simple remedy. Offer to carry the card yourselves. Ever walked into a club and signed up, and been asked if you could judge? Everybody is a pro, and everybody is getting screwed, so if you have a problem with judging, OH HONEST ONES, take the card yourself, and judge the cast according to the rules, and HONOR rules!

It's a lot tougher to pay off a judge when you're trying to buy them out of the hunt!

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Posted by Mike Hill on 02-28-2012 04:01 PM:

What needs to be done

The rest of the casts needs to grow some balls and not let a guy cheat if a dog leaves the tree you need to stick to it any rule broke cast majority wins.if it gets out of hand take it back to the club house.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 02-28-2012 04:17 PM:

Lets be realistic here. When the judge makes a call VERY VERY VERY SELDOM do 3 people go against the judge.

I could give you about 10 great examples as to what i'm talking about.

Dog meets handler off the tree. Judge minuses dog. Handler asks for a vote, does ANYONE think 2 other casts members are going to turn dow the oppurtunity to put a dog in the hole?

Usually when a bad judge makes a bad call it is against a single handler. Most guys do not turn down the oppurtunity to get a dog minused. These are just the simple facts.

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Posted by B Downing on 02-28-2012 04:20 PM:

Re: For everyone against hunting judges

quote:
Originally posted by Tully
Simple remedy. Offer to carry the card yourselves. Ever walked into a club and signed up, and been asked if you could judge? Everybody is a pro, and everybody is getting screwed, so if you have a problem with judging, OH HONEST ONES, take the card yourself, and judge the cast according to the rules, and HONOR rules!

It's a lot tougher to pay off a judge when you're trying to buy them out of the hunt!

Agreed 100%! If you don't know the rules good enough and don't have the balls to call someone out when they are cheeting then don't hide behind the computer and bitch about it! If you want to fix the issue you have with someone else judgeing you then offer to take the card next time you enter a hunt, and if you don't want to do that then stay home! JMO

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