UKC Forums - Old hounds vs. Current hounds

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-- Old hounds vs. Current hounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=436795)

Posted by Jim Hill on 07-08-2011 02:50 AM:

Re: dogs

quote:
Originally posted by hillbilly56
i liked the dogs of 60s and 70s way better than the dogs of today they started hunting when you turn them loose todays dogs when you cut them loose they throw dirt in your face and go out of the country looking for a coon track then find them miles away treed maybe have a coon and maybe not i just think they have bred to much tree in todays dogs i think it is really bad in todays walker dogs jmo

way to much tree and not enough track is right for sure

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 07-08-2011 03:43 AM:

Re: COULD IT BE......

quote:
Originally posted by Charles Pullen
Is it the way we hunt them . EXAMPLES: frosty nights, around water, make them have to go look for one instead of quickys, and to me what I think what makes a great one ..HUNTING IT BY IT
SELF , Which I believe is lacking in todays hounds. Way to many one trees look out they all treed....with nothing

Sometimes I think a cold noses is earned or made in the type of conditions you hunt your hound {jmo)

your right we have nothing to train them to track.
the old dogs trained each other to track.today they
train each other to tree. they have trouble swinging and
picking up the track.

Posted by G L Weller on 07-08-2011 05:16 AM:

The only thing wrong with today’s dogs is most are tree happy idiots that cannot handle a track unless it’s red hot and even then many will come up short on the wrong tree. It’s no wonder tracking has been lost over the years with so many big hunt winners being used as stud dogs. Many dogs that are hunted in the hunts are hot nosed bark three times and get treed type dogs and they will sure look good in thick coon. But put some of those dogs in thin coon on a rough night and they’ll look so stupid you’ll wonder how the heck they ever won anything. Another thing that’s desired in the hunts is a very independent dog that most always trees off in another direction away from other dogs. I understand why people want this type dog for the hunts but as a pleasure hound to hunt with your hunting buddies that type dog is a pain in the a$$. Bottom line is if tree happy, hot nosed independent dogs are used for breeding now then we’ll have more hot nosed independent tree happy dogs in the future. If we want balanced track and tree dogs in the future we must breed for balanced track and tree dogs now.

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Posted by old ben on 07-08-2011 12:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by G L Weller
The only thing wrong with today’s dogs is most are tree happy idiots that cannot handle a track unless it’s red hot and even then many will come up short on the wrong tree. It’s no wonder tracking has been lost over the years with so many big hunt winners being used as stud dogs. Many dogs that are hunted in the hunts are hot nosed bark three times and get treed type dogs and they will sure look good in thick coon. But put some of those dogs in thin coon on a rough night and they’ll look so stupid you’ll wonder how the heck they ever won anything. Another thing that’s desired in the hunts is a very independent dog that most always trees off in another direction away from other dogs. I understand why people want this type dog for the hunts but as a pleasure hound to hunt with your hunting buddies that type dog is a pain in the a$$. Bottom line is if tree happy, hot nosed independent dogs are used for breeding now then we’ll have more hot nosed independent tree happy dogs in the future. If we want balanced track and tree dogs in the future we must breed for balanced track and tree dogs now.

well put

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 07-08-2011 01:12 PM:

Gosh will all these dogs that are running miles to tree on a slick tree I feel bad! I must have the only dog that can still run and tree a coon...

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 07-08-2011 01:13 PM:

You guys are in the wrong sport if you want to listen to hounds running around tracking all night.

Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 07-08-2011 01:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by old ben
well put

Well written... My goals exactly !

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

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Posted by old ben on 07-08-2011 01:44 PM:

You can't compare whats dead and gone for 10-20 years to what you have on hand. Why is that a Goal ?

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Posted by G L Weller on 07-08-2011 03:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
You guys are in the wrong sport if you want to listen to hounds running around tracking all night.

Did someone write they wanted to listen to dogs running around tracking all night? I must have missed that post. I don’t want a dog tracking all night but I do want and breed for a dog that is good on both track and tree. To me a good track & tree dog will open freely on track and can take a cold bad track through the country with some speed and style and be under the coon barking treed until I get there no matter how long it takes. That same dog can also drive a hot track to catch, put the coon on the wood and stay treed no matter what the other dogs are doing. That is balance and that’s what has been lost. I’m not living in the past but always looking to the future. We been hunting the same line of dogs for nearly 30 years and because they are line bred using balanced dogs from the same family of dogs we still have the same type of dogs we’ve always had. We get culls just like everyone else and they are eliminated no matter what the sire and dam could do. Breed for balance cull hard and balance will surface. I guess it boils down to what you want in a dog. I personally don’t want a tree happy idiot or a track dragging fool. Also can’t stand a dog that opens three times and trees or a dog so independent that it won’t tree with another dog. Balance is a good thing in a dog I guess that’s why a good balanced dog is worth a pile of money. No, we don't have the best dogs in the world but they are the kind we like so we feed them. Good luck to all no matter what kind of dog you like.

Posted by GA DAWG on 07-08-2011 05:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
You guys are in the wrong sport if you want to listen to hounds running around tracking all night.

Yeah they should get some beagles or fox hounds or a bluedog I guess LOL...

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Posted by Bluedogman on 07-08-2011 05:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
Its simple. Breed it back and go beat these slick treeing idiots I hear so much about. Should be fairly easy! I wouldn't have the bellering boohooing can't get treed by its self hound of yester year. Wait
I have one that's 9yr old. Does she count as one of the older hounds?

No!

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Posted by rghnd123 on 07-08-2011 05:24 PM:

World Hunt Winners

I already know what dog will win the world. It will be owned by GA DAWG or HOOSIERMAN1. LOL. If there is a post about anything they will have the top hound and there's have no faults and never stumble on a track or slick tree. LOL. What gets me is the question was ask about Past Hounds and Current Hounds. The most of us on here don't know the first thing about the Hounds of the Past. This is you old fellars time to talk as you were there. Have at it. If some of us youngsters would listen we may learn something. But I guess if you already own faultless superdog there's no need to listen.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 07-08-2011 05:55 PM:

Re: World Hunt Winners

quote:
Originally posted by rghnd123
I already know what dog will win the world. It will be owned by GA DAWG or HOOSIERMAN1. LOL. If there is a post about anything they will have the top hound and there's have no faults and never stumble on a track or slick tree. LOL. What gets me is the question was ask about Past Hounds and Current Hounds. The most of us on here don't know the first thing about the Hounds of the Past. This is you old fellars time to talk as you were there. Have at it. If some of us youngsters would listen we may learn something. But I guess if you already own faultless superdog there's no need to listen.

I never said I had a world beater but what I have will probably hang with any of the oldest blood YOU can come up with.

__________________
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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 07-08-2011 06:02 PM:

Re: World Hunt Winners

quote:
Originally posted by rghnd123
I already know what dog will win the world. It will be owned by GA DAWG or HOOSIERMAN1. LOL. If there is a post about anything they will have the top hound and there's have no faults and never stumble on a track or slick tree. LOL. What gets me is the question was ask about Past Hounds and Current Hounds. The most of us on here don't know the first thing about the Hounds of the Past. This is you old fellars time to talk as you were there. Have at it. If some of us youngsters would listen we may learn something. But I guess if you already own faultless superdog there's no need to listen.

LOL is that what you gather from reading my posts? I have yet to own a dog that didn't screw and make me very mad but the KEY is to get a dog that makes you happy far more then mad.

Posted by rghnd123 on 07-08-2011 06:07 PM:

No old blood here

Just razzing you a little. LOL. I just wish I had the oppurtunity to hunt the country. I came up to South Eastern Illinois is November. We treed a lot of coons and had a blast. I almost spoiled me to come back down here. Anyway don't take offense to what I said. How close are you to Evansville Indiana.

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Posted by Hopkins/Lipper on 07-08-2011 06:41 PM:

Short comings then and now ...

quote:
Originally posted by old ben
You can't compare whats dead and gone for 10-20 years to what you have on hand. Why is that a Goal ?

There were short comings in many of the dogs of 20 years ago,
Such as some were a little lazy in some strains and did trail too
Much. Today I see alot of poorly equipped dogs that cannot trail
or are bred almost silent pop up tree dogs that are not as
accurate as they should be. Many young hunters think that you
have to have that right or wrong be by itself always dog to
win. I on the otherhand say give me the type of dogs that
I bred for and followed when was competing . A hard firing
Get struck quick and honest and give overpowering track
driving mouth while taking the track away from trailers or
dogs looking for empty trees. One that can run with his head
in the air a make a bad track a coon looking for a limb in short
order. One that can wind locate going into the tree and lock it
down with the meat. One that will share a tree with other dogs
hold pressure both fang and spilt tree and tree enough splits to
Wear out the me toos ,. Give me one of those old styles.
Ones like I am trying to breed for and compete with once again.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Posted by GA DAWG on 07-08-2011 07:49 PM:

Re: Short comings then and now ...

quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
There were short comings in many of the dogs of 20 years ago,
Such as some were a little lazy in some strains and did trail too
Much. Today I see alot of poorly equipped dogs that cannot trail
or are bred almost silent pop up tree dogs that are not as
accurate as they should be. Many young hunters think that you
have to have that right or wrong be by itself always dog to
win. I on the otherhand say give me the type of dogs that
I bred for and followed when was competing . A hard firing
Get struck quick and honest and give overpowering track
driving mouth while taking the track away from trailers or
dogs looking for empty trees. One that can run with his head
in the air a make a bad track a coon looking for a limb in short
order. One that can wind locate going into the tree and lock it
down with the meat. One that will share a tree with other dogs
hold pressure both fang and spilt tree and tree enough splits to
Wear out the me toos ,. Give me one of those old styles.
Ones like I am trying to breed for and compete with once again.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

You know where I might find one of these? If you get over loaded with hounds like that. Send me one

We might as well face it. The hounds of yesterday are gone. In my mind. They will not return. Its a shame I never got to form a true eye witness opinion on em. I just have to take what we have today and go from there. Despite what folks say. We have some shore nuff coondogs out there. We also have some shore nuff idiots. I suspect its always been this way.

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Posted by old ben on 07-08-2011 08:04 PM:

Re: Short comings then and now ...

quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
There were short comings in many of the dogs of 20 years ago,
Such as some were a little lazy in some strains and did trail too
Much. Today I see alot of poorly equipped dogs that cannot trail
or are bred almost silent pop up tree dogs that are not as
accurate as they should be. Many young hunters think that you
have to have that right or wrong be by itself always dog to
win. I on the otherhand say give me the type of dogs that
I bred for and followed when was competing . A hard firing
Get struck quick and honest and give overpowering track
driving mouth while taking the track away from trailers or
dogs looking for empty trees. One that can run with his head
in the air a make a bad track a coon looking for a limb in short
order. One that can wind locate going into the tree and lock it
down with the meat. One that will share a tree with other dogs
hold pressure both fang and spilt tree and tree enough splits to
Wear out the me toos ,. Give me one of those old styles.
Ones like I am trying to breed for and compete with once again.

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

are you saying that is the type hound we have today or use to have

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 07-08-2011 08:06 PM:

how old are you Ga Dawg. If you have never hunted with some of the stuff from back then you have no clue to what some are talking about. I did have the chance to hunt with some old good coon hounds. but i have hunted with some of the stuff today too. I like both. but the hounds that could hunt from the leash and tree coon before the mile mark are fading fast. I need a dog that hunts from the time you turn them loose. I hunted when we did not have garmins and trackers to locate our dogs. we listened for them. they hunted tighter than the long range dogs we have today. i was hunting last night and my dog fell treed 160 yrd from the truck. the hounds blew right by. i had a coon they were slick. i don't need that kind of hound no matter the breed or breeding. i want to tree coons not make trees. i want to tree as many as i can not one long shot coon.

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-08-2011 08:29 PM:

Funny Thing is Bluetick Hounds have'nt Got any Better than this 1978 Hound !!

Maybe 3 others that have been close ...

Why Have'nt They Gotten Better ????

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Posted by GA DAWG on 07-08-2011 08:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
Funny Thing is Bluetick Hounds have'nt Got any Better than this 1978 Hound !!

Maybe 3 others that have been close ...

Why Have'nt They Gotten Better ????

Because lots of bluetick men are still trying to breed for that old school hound. I guess on the bright side. They ain't really got no worse LOL.

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Posted by old ben on 07-08-2011 08:44 PM:

i like that he is not for sale has been offered 18k proof in the pudding

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-08-2011 09:00 PM:

Emit Should have sold Him !!! Cuz Tack landed on a upright Stick while Treeing and Reptured Himself not even 6 months later !!!

But Think about it Over 30 years of Breeding and Still none Better ??

Posted by old ben on 07-08-2011 09:09 PM:

yes i hear ya,,im not a breeder just buy the product then complain lol

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Posted by Charles Pullen on 07-09-2011 12:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by G L Weller
The only thing wrong with today’s dogs is most are tree happy idiots that cannot handle a track unless it’s red hot and even then many will come up short on the wrong tree. It’s no wonder tracking has been lost over the years with so many big hunt winners being used as stud dogs. Many dogs that are hunted in the hunts are hot nosed bark three times and get treed type dogs and they will sure look good in thick coon. But put some of those dogs in thin coon on a rough night and they’ll look so stupid you’ll wonder how the heck they ever won anything. Another thing that’s desired in the hunts is a very independent dog that most always trees off in another direction away from other dogs. I understand why people want this type dog for the hunts but as a pleasure hound to hunt with your hunting buddies that type dog is a pain in the a$$. Bottom line is if tree happy, hot nosed independent dogs are used for breeding now then we’ll have more hot nosed independent tree happy dogs in the future. If we want balanced track and tree dogs in the future we must breed for balanced track and tree dogs now.

THE TRUTH !!!

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