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Originally posted by Hazel Hill Blueticks
More like the best game runners. Most of the ones I have seen don't run track, they run game. If you get them broke off trash and only run coon you might have a dog. They didn't get the reputation of being hot nosed from running track, they have to have something in front of them. Also this is the reason they slick tree so much, they don't have the nose to figure out what tree the coon went up in the dark. JMO on what I have seen.

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__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Poison whiskey.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... best track dog i ever saw ...............................................he is no dout one of a kind,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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HOME OF CH GRAND NITE CH PR' TEAM GAINES'S WIPEOUT SISSY

Go ahead, bash the walkers, but I think it's obvious they dominate the comp hunts. Does that mean they're best, no. But it means you're breeds have a hell of a time beating them.

I hear about the cold and frozen a lot but what about the HOT AND DRY..................What will show you coon in EXTREME hot dry conditions? Who is finding coon out in the parts of Texas that have been in the drought for so long?

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Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

LIPPER'S DR. LAW "DOC"

Lipper's Dr.Law "Doc" 6/23/2011 a HOT Dry Texas night in East Texas bottoms. Not a good cell phone pic but you get the idea.



Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

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Re: LIPPER'S DR. LAW "DOC"

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Originally posted by Hopkins/Lipper
Lipper's Dr.Law "Doc" 6/23/2011 a HOT Dry Texas night in East Texas bottoms. Not a good cell phone pic but you get the idea.



Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

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__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

how can a person tell who has the best track dog when they refuse to compete for the same coon.?
years ago, when dogs still competed against each other, the good track dogs were easy to spot.
then people found it easier to breed and train for absolute loners that will fly thru the country bushing easy coon, than to breed better track dogs. these dogs win a lot of hunts and therefore get bred a lot.
now we are wondering where the good track dogs went.
when i see a dog that can take the track away from the pack and locate that coon ahead of the rest consistantly, im impressed and want some of that.

those that train breed beat shock etc etc dogs so they dont compete against a good track dog? happy hunting fellers,im not impressed with all your trophys.

i like a good track dog.

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
I hear about the cold and frozen a lot but what about the HOT AND DRY..................What will show you coon in EXTREME hot dry conditions? Who is finding coon out in the parts of Texas that have been in the drought for so long?

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Originally posted by elvis
how can a person tell who has the best track dog when they refuse to compete for the same coon.?
years ago, when dogs still competed against each other, the good track dogs were easy to spot.
then people found it easier to breed and train for absolute loners that will fly thru the country bushing easy coon, than to breed better track dogs. these dogs win a lot of hunts and therefore get bred a lot.
now we are wondering where the good track dogs went.
when i see a dog that can take the track away from the pack and locate that coon ahead of the rest consistantly, im impressed and want some of that.

those that train breed beat shock etc etc dogs so they dont compete against a good track dog? happy hunting fellers,im not impressed with all your trophys.

i like a good track dog.

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
I agree with all that but with one condition. They have to HAVE THE COON. I have seen a lot of dogs "take the track away and locate that coon ahead of the rest " and be barking up a slick tree 75% of the time. That don't impress me. Also I will add one other thing, Elvis if I'm not mistake you live in very flat land. I don't live in huge mountains but we do have some ridges in many places where I hunt. What you "hear" happen and what "actually" happens is many times two different things.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Originally posted by jackbob42
The dogs he's talking about DID have the coon.
And , to most folks , that goes without sayin'.

I know exactly what you're talking about Elvis and I agree 100% !

I sure wish they'd make the coonhounds run the same track like they do with the beagles.
I bet you'd see guys start standing up and minusing them babblers , and therefore stop guys from breeding them , and see who's got what for track speed.
Sure would make for better dogs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
It dont " go without saying " with me ! I seen too many hyped up culls.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

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Originally posted by jackbob42
Were you coonhunting back when the dogs would compete against one another?

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I dont care about a dog that can run a hot track fast and tree it. I like the ones that can take a cold track away from a dog and leave him standing on his head and put a tree on the end of it with the meat. Ive hunted with all kinds of dogs, different breeds and so forth. I dont think a specific line of dogs are any better than the other its all about if they have that drive and will power within themselves. For example if you take a dog from Texas that has to track in the hot dry to the north he might be the fastest track dog you ever seen. You take a great track dog from the north and bring him to the south and you might change your mind about him being the best track dog you ever seen. I think alot of people breed to a dog because of what he can do in the woods thinking there pups are going to the same thing it just doesnt work like that.

Trackdogs

I agree with Elvis!
I'm sure that Elvis offended a few hunters, but he is right on target.
Top trackdogs have the desire to catch the game and are pushing the cold tracks not slow trailing them. They catch hot coon on the ground if they don't climb too. A slick tree is an unfinished track.
I see people on here that only want their dogs to be deep and alone. That is probably the only way that they can win because their dogs ability level is not high enough to compete one on one.
In the hunts I see more dogs that compete against the clock instead of the other dogs. That is like having the Kentucky Derby
ran one horse at a time around the track instead of all competing all at once.
I've found from raising alot of pups over the years that:
-It is easier to breed black walkers than to breed out of the ticking
-It is easier to breed loud mouth treedogs that can't hear the pressure than breed pressure treedogs
-IT IS EASIER TO BREED WINNERS THAT COMPETE AGAINST THE CLOCK THAN IT IS BREED WINNERS WITH HIGHER LEVELS OF ABILITY THAT COMPETE ONE ON ONE.

good thread!! i remember bout 15 yrs ago, few buddies of mine had some real nice walkers, could grub up an ol bad feed track take it threw the timber an get treed with the meat, im pertty sure they were yadkin river an lipper bred. they had nose an lots of speed. hadnt hunted with a walker like them in a long time, most are like a few of yal say get deep alone, an real loud an flashy. ive hunted with a few walkers that are real good comp dogs, but when it comes to feeling up a truck with the meat come kill season, they wouldnt fit the bill. jmo.

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
No sir.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
Well , now might be a good time to listen to some older guys then and learn then.

Because it was also back then that most dogs could tree together and not one off bark would be heard.
We'd sometimes hunt 6 or 8 dogs together after the Nite Hunt was over and hunt till daylight.
I remember one night we had 5 or 6 dogs on a tree and my dad and his friends sat down while us kids threw rocks at this coon till our arms got tired. ALL them dogs were on the same tree and none of them were tied back. Nobody was worried about letting them dogs tree together.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
oh I'm listening, I just don't agree. I'm only 34 years old and I didn't even start coonhunting till 1995. You was probably coonhunting before I was born and Elvis was too. I respect my elders but that don't mean I like what you like. A pack of dogs running a coon track does not impress me in the least. Me too dogs do not impress me at all. Any mutt can jump in a pack and run. It takes a real dog to consistently get coons treed all alone. And i don't mean split off treed. I mean turned loose alone. No other dogs in the woods whatsoever. Give me a dog that you can consistently turn loose in ridge and mountain country all alone in thin coon and go see a coon on a consistent basis and I call that a real coondog. Take away the crutches and the training wheels folks ! Take away the feeder buckets, take away the leaves on the trees, take away all the other dogs. What your left with is what you got. I know what I got.

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Im a big fan of Yadkin River bred hounds exp anything out of Curt cold noise track driving machines. You cant go wrong with Yadkin River not just a bunch of Tree Happy Fools can will and do have the MEAT.

__________________
Shaun Hufton
Lumberton Nc
207-502-4832
Waccamaw River Kennels.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
oh I'm listening, I just don't agree. I'm only 34 years old and I didn't even start coonhunting till 1995. You was probably coonhunting before I was born and Elvis was too. I respect my elders but that don't mean I like what you like. A pack of dogs running a coon track does not impress me in the least. Me too dogs do not impress me at all. Any mutt can jump in a pack and run. It takes a real dog to consistently get coons treed all alone. And i don't mean split off treed. I mean turned loose alone. No other dogs in the woods whatsoever. Give me a dog that you can consistently turn loose in ridge and mountain country all alone in thin coon and go see a coon on a consistent basis and I call that a real coondog. Take away the crutches and the training wheels folks ! Take away the feeder buckets, take away the leaves on the trees, take away all the other dogs. What your left with is what you got. I know what I got.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

intersting post...............

It appears that the opinion on which bloodlines known for tracking are as diverse as the opinions of what a 'track dog' is.....

Not that it matters, but I agree with Elvis. There are two good ways to judge a track dog 1) see how the dog operates in a pack of good dogs that are all trying to run the same track; 2) have lots of real world hunting experience with good dogs of all colors and be able to know what a real track dog is. Elvis obviouslly has experience and ideas on what a track dog is to him and in his hunting area.

I have hunted with lots of dogs that folks said were 'track dogs'. Some judged on speed of moving a track, some on accuracy of having a coon on the outside, some thought is was b/c the dog caught a few coons on the ground. I have seen some very slow track dogs that were near 99% on having a coon, dogs that ran junk and switched that had great track speed, and some near silent dogs that caught several coons--none of them good track dogs, yet the owner thought they were! I have even seen some 'big game' bred hounds that struggled to cold trail a bear, but ran the fire out of them once they were jumped.

To me, a good track dog does it all--run hot tracks wide open and fast, cold trails worked out and with reasonable speed, can catch a coon in open country by cutting and slashing with head up, and has a coon/game 90% or more. It is not all about nose and a dog has to have drive/guts to be a great track dog, too. Regardless of breed, there are few of those type dogs around.

I have hunted with many different strains and seen good/bad in all of them. I have had Finley River dogs for over 30yrs. They usually have the nose, but have lost their guts/drive IMO. House bred dogs I have hunted usually have the drive/guts, but won't slow down and work a trail out in the dead of winter--I've had mostly Lipper and Deanwood Drifter breeding. I like the Drifter dogs much better. I have not had any luck with a Yadkin River dog--I've tried 'em out of Tree Blaster, Dudley, Sackett Jr, Nailor, & Tar Rattler and they all would rather tree than track.

The best track dog I ever hunted with was of Beaver Lake Lightning and GrNt Poor Boy's Cookie breeding--Claude Lewis breeding. She could fly on hot ones and grub up coons in the daytime. I climbed lots of trees then and there was a coon in the holes--almost 100%. I didn't know what a 'slick tree' was in 1980. I hunted with a Washburn 'big game' bred male that was a close second. Roy Jackson in Kansas had some old Tinsley bred hounds that were track dogs, too.

The thing with those dogs is that you had to work hard to get them to tree and stay before they were three years old. Balance is just as hard to find today as it was then......

GES

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
As usual , you're not listening..............
We're not talking about all them other dogs. We're talking about the one who can take a track away from all those other idiots and get to the tree first.
How do you know you don't have one of those idiots if it never runs a track or trees with another dog? That's pobably what you have and you'll never know it ! LOL
Heck , you can even figure out that this thread is about track dogs and not all them other idiots you're used to hunting with ! LOL

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
WOW !!! You never even seen my dog but you can already say he's an idiot and so are all the other dogs i hunt with !!!

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Best Strain Of Trackdogs

Roy Jackson of FT. Scott, Ks. had the best strain of trackdogs that I ever hunted with. Jackson's Josie and Hathaway's Jane would run their tracks so hard that most other dogs had to run silent to stay in the race. It was like hunting with a machine. It wasn't if they were going to tree, it was only where. Jackson had several generations of Mack Twain/Tinsley bred walkers. He combined the bloodlines of California Mack Twain, Kansas Mack and Tinsley's Kansas Tess. I believe they were littermates. A Jackson bred female was also the bloodline that crossed on Kaw River Chief that produced Houses Tom Tom. Kaw River Chief's dam was heavy Mack Twain.
The Stan's Sailor dam was also Mack Twain bred. A.J. Wright's Sue was out of Sailor. Wright started the Yadkin River line of dogs that Jim Meeks promoted.
Paul Gregg's Banjo dog was from Mack Twain female.
Don Nicely should audit this as I'm taking it from memory, but the foundation for the bloodlines that you are discussing had heavy Mack Twain as their origin.