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-- why no countdown on tree? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=412688)

I think that if UKC goes to a tree countdown then the tree points should be backed down to 100. If it stays at 125 plus the tree countdown then we might as well just have everyone strike in for 25 plus. Which I dont want to see a bunch of silent mouth cur dogs either. I personally can live with 125 to 75. Like somebody said you might want to look in the mirror at what your packing. Unless your dog is stone silent if you are making first trees all night with coons most of the time you will come out on top.

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
LOL -1

It has everythinh to do with a second dog! My gosh some statements never seize to amaze.

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__________________
Matt Mays (205) 807-3046

Its human nature to remember the exception...

We all remember the cast where the biggest POS dog in the world capitalised on a mistake or two and won the hunt.

That is the exception....

The countdown, more often than not is used as a defensive handling tool...That is the rule.

...............

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Originally posted by Drew
There is a KC that has that rule. Do you want all the major KC's to have the same rules?

Also, in the other KC you don't get 125 for first tree. I personally like getting the extra 25 for having the first dog to get hooked.

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Originally posted by Matt Mays
what he is getting at is the countdown brings greater handling strategy into the mix... most good cover dogs will be there long before 2nd tree is dead

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I like a countdown myself..Not just for the 4:45 me tooing idiots either.. 2nd tree closes after 30sec and 3rd after a min...If a hound is running the same track..Surely to goodness it can be there within a min..If it cant on a regular basis..It needs shot or you need to quit hunting those slow track dogs..I wish the other kc would go to 125 first tree and a count down like they have...When I beat somebody..I want to beat them bad..I dont even want it to look close...2nd tree should close after 15 sec and 3rd after 30...That would be more to my liking...

__________________
Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
I like a countdown myself..Not just for the 4:45 me tooing idiots either.. 2nd tree closes after 30sec and 3rd after a min...If a hound is running the same track..Surely to goodness it can be there within a min..If it cant on a regular basis..It needs shot or you need to quit hunting those slow track dogs..I wish the other kc would go to 125 first tree and a count down like they have...When I beat somebody..I want to beat them bad..I dont even want it to look close...2nd tree should close after 15 sec and 3rd after 30...That would be more to my liking...

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MERLE COBLENTZ
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I've saw a me to dog win but thats not why I like the count down.. Its just like college football...If a team is that much better than the other team..Dont lay back..Run that score up..Whoop em bad..Send em home crying..Same thing with a slow track and tree dog..Get em out of the picture..Aint no use in them going home and telling everybody how they just barely lost

__________________
Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
I like a countdown myself..Not just for the 4:45 me tooing idiots either.. 2nd tree closes after 30sec and 3rd after a min...If a hound is running the same track..Surely to goodness it can be there within a min..If it cant on a regular basis..It needs shot or you need to quit hunting those slow track dogs..I wish the other kc would go to 125 first tree and a count down like they have...When I beat somebody..I want to beat them bad..I dont even want it to look close...2nd tree should close after 15 sec and 3rd after 30...That would be more to my liking...

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Keeping track of the countdown time from the judges standpoint is about as tough as graduating from 1st grade. You have to start the 5 anyway, when second tree is called, just look at your clock. If it is past one minute gone, 2nd tree was already closed. If it is 2 minutes gone, 3rd tree is closed, everything goes in for 25 after that. How tough is that?

Fact of life, dogs that cover after the 2 minute time is past have almost always quit whatever track they were running and ran to cover the tree. Even the slowest dogs aren't ever two minutes behind the track leader. So when you award tree points to a dog that covered after 2 minutes, you are rewarding that dog for having quit his strike and running to a treed dog. If you think that is deserving of 75 or even 50 points, you have far different values than I have when it comes to dogs.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

I believe enough of those that are in the position to have a vote in changing these rules put a lot of thought into what is best for the future of the coonhound and our sport. Thank goodness for these folks.

Think long and hard about how this rule change would effect many many other things besides stopping your super deluxe stemwinder from getting beat occasionaly by a metooer, before jumping on the countdown bandwagon.

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Originally posted by elvis
I believe enough of those that are in the position to have a vote in changing these rules put a lot of thought into what is best for the future of the coonhound and our sport. Thank goodness for these folks.

Think long and hard about how this rule change would effect many many other things besides stopping your super deluxe stemwinder from getting beat occasionaly by a metooer, before jumping on the countdown bandwagon.

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Originally posted by Terry Adams

Elvis, I'm still thinking long and hard, and I just can't see how changing this rule, would effect other things,.......please explain.

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hoosier man1

i'm not trying to be a smart a$$ but if you are amazed at my statement & it has everything to do with a me to dog. how often are you gettin beat by a me to dog??

Elvis once again you prove why you are the man!

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Travis Stirek
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Originally posted by elvis
It changes a lot of things.
It becomes a completely different game where you see the better handlers rise to the top instead of the better dogs.
Why would I ever tree for 75 if i didnt wanna be held acountable for it, now I can just wait a minute and tree for a quarter.
Even if my dog trees first and im afraid its slick or have the cast already won. Now your gonna have to run the stationary on me in hopes of the metooer getting to me so I can wait and tree for 25.

Ive never heard anyone complain about a dog getting to the tree just before the 5 is up getting minussed 75 on a slick.
You think he only deserves 25 minus?

I also believe it has had a negative impact on the type of dogs that are being bred and trained for. Its hard to find a good track dog. Nobody wants to breed one either, its just easier to breed for and train one that dont compete against a superior track dog and just gets away and bushes easy coon. LORD forbid they have one that might tree second once in awhile.

just my thoughts and ramblings. I am pretty sure im in the minority in my thinking on the subject, at least on this board, and im thinking that may be a good thing.

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A second tree dog is not much of a threat in any registry....Unless its packing 100 with it....What is the REAL problem here?

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Originally posted by josh
A second tree dog is not much of a threat in any registry....Unless its packing 100 with it....What is the REAL problem here?

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__________________
MERLE COBLENTZ
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If yall are skeered of a countdown...Just say your skeered

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Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by josh
A second tree dog is not much of a threat in any registry....Unless its packing 100 with it....What is the REAL problem here?

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I dont think a countdown rewards anything other than a savy handler.

If a dog trees a coon ahead of mine Im prolly going to be looking for a new dog even if it is a mile in with a coon.

A dog souldent pass by coon just for the sake of getting "alone".

IF that means Im hunting a me-too last tree dog, so be it. You will NEVER convince me a good dog will pass a coon for any reason.

Best Track Dog = Dog that trees coon first,not dog that barks when turned loose every time its foot hits the ground.UKC better leave it like it is cause most couldn't compete if they changed it.The way the rules are now you can find a winner pretty cheap,but I would hate to have to hunt it during the week.JMO

elvis,
I respect you for your answer,but.........no matter what, there will always be good or slick handlers out there. I don't know which is worse, me letting a slick handler beat me, or a dog that doesn't deserve to win. If I know the rules and have a good dog, and I use them both in the right way, I guess I would be considered a slick handler. But usually I beat myself.

Why is everyone always worried about a slick handler..........if you know the rules along with the other guys on the cast, it shouldn't be a problem. It's how many buddies the slick handler has on a cast you have to worry about.

I'm not smart enough to make long term preductions about how a rule change will effect handlers, breeders or dogs. But I do know this much. When a dog rolls up on a tree 2 minutes or more after the coon was treed, you can be absolutely sure that dog didn't trail no track into that tree and it didn't have anything to do with the treeing of that coon. When a dog rolls up 2 minutes or more after the 5 is started, that dog didn't anything except run to a treed dog. And that isn't something deserving of 75 tree points to my way of thinking.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Jim you hit the nail on the head!!!! Nuff said!! If you got a dog that backs after the 2 it needs a .22 in the back of the head! Boys need to start culling these me 2 dogs. I dont know Jim from adam but his post is right on.