UKC Forums - Garmin antennas demystified....

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-- Garmin antennas demystified.... (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=407411)

Posted by intellectualist on 02-14-2011 05:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cedarhillkennel
arent the yagis "tunned" to a specific freq.??? say 217-219-220 and so forth.i know you can use a tunned 217 to track 219 collars but not as well if the antenna was tunned to 219 .
if im not mistaken acording to my astro my dc-30 collar transmits at somthing like 155.000 or somthing like that so my question is how can my yagi that is supposedly tunned to 217 track somthing in the 155.000 range effectivley

Nobody said it could. I specifically said it would be a waste of time.
Just as a side note, if you were using a 219 yagi tracking 217 collars and then attached a 217 yagi to track the 217 collars there would be absolutely no descernable difference to the naked ear or eye! If anyone says there is a difference as far as receive, they have something wrong with their 219 antenna or feedline.
Now if you were transmitting, that would be different but once you get that high in frequency, the bandwidth of the antenna is enough to where you can move around a few megahertz for transmit and even further for just receive purposes.

Posted by cedarhillkennel on 02-14-2011 06:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by intellectualist
Nobody said it could. I specifically said it would be a waste of time.
Just as a side note, if you were using a 219 yagi tracking 217 collars and then attached a 217 yagi to track the 217 collars there would be absolutely no descernable difference to the naked ear or eye! If anyone says there is a difference as far as receive, they have something wrong with their 219 antenna or feedline.
Now if you were transmitting, that would be different but once you get that high in frequency, the bandwidth of the antenna is enough to where you can move around a few megahertz for transmit and even further for just receive purposes.

My mistake i thought you were by this post

By the way, if you guys do try to use a yagi antenna with the garmin, take your time or you will become frustrated.
Make sure that the elements on the yagi are situated up and down, not sideways because if the collar antenna is verticle and you hold the yagi horizontal, the polarization difference will create about a 25 db loss in gain then you will be doing no better than a magnet mount.
If your collar is out of range and you are not exactly sure of the direction, use very slow sweeping motions with the yagi because remember , the garmin, at best, sends a data burst every five seconds. If your collar is far away and the signal is only optimum within a few inches of your "sweep area", you could easily pass the sweet spot up before receiving the signal.
Weak signal work has been a passion for hams for many years and this is basically what you will be doing. Although hams typically use much larger arrays of antennas, the same principles apply.
Just a word of advice, if you hunt somewhere that you can normally drive around and get in range of your dog, I would not even worry about purchasing the yagi

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Posted by intellectualist on 02-15-2011 03:58 AM:

Ok. I was referring to yagis tuned to the Garmin frequency, not yagis they were using on their telemetry systems. Unless of course it was a 150-155 Mhz. VHF system then that would work fine.

Posted by cedarhillkennel on 02-15-2011 02:44 PM:

last nights experiment

experimenting last night after reading all this yesterday and found out somthing interesting.
i dont have a yagi antenna and havent for years i have a four element roof mounted antenna that is basicly home made by a fella here in virginia so what i did was take my icom box punched in the freq. from the garmin collar then hooked that four element anttena to it and found i could get almost two more miles from that than the garmin handheld.
i have no idea what that antenna is "tuned"to and i swear waiting for a signal at five second intervals is like watching paint dry.but i do like the fact that the garmin collars can be tracked by a beep beep system if need be

Posted by Tyler Vaden on 02-15-2011 03:12 PM:

Man I wish the Marshall would come out I know there's will have there yagi fast easy to fold antenna.

Posted by Wingpatch on 02-15-2011 03:14 PM:

WELL

THATS A NEW ONE FOR ME. I DIDNT KNOW GARMIN COLLARS PUT OUT ANY KIND OF PALSE SIGNAL THAT COULD BE TRACKED WITH A BEEPER RECIEVER ?? AS FAR AS THE YAGA ANTENNA FREQ. THEY DONT HAVE TO BE THE SAME FREQ. TO TRACK THE GARMINS... BUT THEY DO FOR THE VERY BEST RECIEVING, ALSO FROM MY OWN LIMITED EXPERANCE THE COAX LENGTH MATTERS ALOT ALSO....

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Posted by cedarhillkennel on 02-15-2011 04:25 PM:

Re: WELL

quote:
Originally posted by Wingpatch
THATS A NEW ONE FOR ME. I DIDNT KNOW GARMIN COLLARS PUT OUT ANY KIND OF PALSE SIGNAL THAT COULD BE TRACKED WITH A BEEPER RECIEVER ?? AS FAR AS THE YAGA ANTENNA FREQ. THEY DONT HAVE TO BE THE SAME FREQ. TO TRACK THE GARMINS... BUT THEY DO FOR THE VERY BEST RECIEVING, ALSO FROM MY OWN LIMITED EXPERANCE THE COAX LENGTH MATTERS ALOT ALSO....

if you look on your handheld under your collar id stuff you can find the freq.that collar is putting out on and if you have a scanner type tracking box like the icom,yeasu, or alinco you can punch in that freq,and get a signal.it only puts out whatever you refresh rate is set to.mine is set to refresh every 5 seconds and it would be a pain to track like that with such a slow "beep" but its there if ever needed

Posted by intellectualist on 02-15-2011 05:03 PM:

Re: WELL

quote:
Originally posted by Wingpatch
THATS A NEW ONE FOR ME. I DIDNT KNOW GARMIN COLLARS PUT OUT ANY KIND OF PALSE SIGNAL THAT COULD BE TRACKED WITH A BEEPER RECIEVER ?? AS FAR AS THE YAGA ANTENNA FREQ. THEY DONT HAVE TO BE THE SAME FREQ. TO TRACK THE GARMINS... BUT THEY DO FOR THE VERY BEST RECIEVING, ALSO FROM MY OWN LIMITED EXPERANCE THE COAX LENGTH MATTERS ALOT ALSO....

He is not tracking with a regular telemetry system. He said beep beep system and that is where it is confusing you.
He is using an Icom receiver for his tracking collars and that is not a "beep beep" at all. That is a communication grade receiver that will receive any frequency and any mode from DC to daylight.
That is why he was able to program the Garmin frequency in and see the data burst signal with the signal meter on the Icom.
Your right, you can use a regular telemetry tracker yagi and attach it to the garmin and it will work. What is your definition of work? If I have a cumbersome three element yagi, it dern well better be directional, and have some measure of gain. This is what makes a beam antenna, a beam antenna. When you start moving far away in frequency from where the yagi was designed to operate, the further away you get, the less like a yagi it operates. Yagis element length and spacing between elements are what determines the frequency they are to be used on.
Just as a side note, that data burst that was being detected by the Icom from that greater distance is probably also being detected by the Garmin as well. Whereas the Icom merely has to give a signal representation, the garmin is expected to decrypt the data associated with that signal and when the signal is weak, that can be hard to do. That data burst has to be captured in its entirety for the location to be displayed on the Astro.

Posted by cedarhillkennel on 02-15-2011 06:02 PM:

YEA sorry for the confusion i did say beep beep at first but in my last post i did say you need a scanner type unit.it does not put out a "beep" just a radio signal that is picked up as a burst of static basicly

Posted by intellectualist on 02-15-2011 06:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cedarhillkennel
YEA sorry for the confusion i did say beep beep at first but in my last post i did say you need a scanner type unit.it does not put out a "beep" just a radio signal that is picked up as a burst of static basicly

It should have, but it never crossed my mind to do what you did. Interesting.

Posted by Cliff Thornburg on 11-02-2018 02:58 PM:

I ran across this old post and wonder did anyone do anything else with all this or did the better Garmin’s render this historical?

Posted by wjoey on 11-02-2018 04:27 PM:

no they banned a couple for bashing each other , it was a BS thread :0

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