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-- Todd? slick or circle answer (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=3829)

I read all the post and want to ask one question.

If you have a hound that is a Nt.Ch. what do you have????????

If you have a hound that is a Gr.Nt Ch. what do you have??????

If you have a hound that has won the state title what do you have????????

The answer to all the above questions is the same ole dog that you loaded up and took to a hunt.

Regardless of what hunt you take your hound too, and win, it will always be the same old hound that you left your house with.

Circle trees do not make Nt. Ch. or Gr.Nt.Ch.'s the trees with the coons in them do.

I do not like hunting when leaves are on the trees, but I do it anyways.

More devices are not the answer. Hunters that treat other cast members the way they would like to be treated is the answer.

Comrade Creek

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Eddie,
What if you take a 50% accurate dog with the leaves off and hunt him with the leaves on he becomes a 90% accurate dog b/c you wont minus the trees that should be minused b/c of the leaves rule that gets abused in the hunts way too much. Or the owner of that dog trying to convince you a spider eye is a coon or a dark spot is fur. He may not convince you but he may convince the majority of the cast and that slick tree becomes a false +....when a simple cheap pair of binoculars would have removed all doubt.

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Steve,

I have one question for you. If you are hunting a coon dog he/she shouldn't be at a slick tree, correct. Your coon dog should be treeing coons, while them tree dogs are treeing trees, right.

Circle trees will not out score + trees no how you look at it.

Now maybe someone is hunting a dog that make 5 trees in 2 hours and you are hunting a dog that make 3 trees in 2 hours. Your dog is 100% accurate and the other hound is only 50% accurate. Who wins this cast?

Comrade Creek

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quote:

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Originally posted by Slough
Is it gona tell you if you have a coon, possum, squirrel, bird, ect. up there?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eddie Basco
Steve,

I have one question for you. If you are hunting a coon dog he/she shouldn't be at a slick tree, correct. Your coon dog should be treeing coons, while them tree dogs are treeing trees, right.

Circle trees will not out score + trees no how you look at it.

Now maybe someone is hunting a dog that make 5 trees in 2 hours and you are hunting a dog that make 3 trees in 2 hours. Your dog is 100% accurate and the other hound is only 50% accurate. Who wins this cast?

Comrade Creek

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quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Raleigh
I'm not justifying whether a dog should or should not be at a slick tree nor whether I hunt or the next person hunts what you call a coon dog.
Just because a dog makes a slick tree or backs another dog on a slick tree does not mean that dog is not a coondog IMO

Your logical situation about who wins a cast between the two dogs is common sense, but what you are trying to say and what you are saying are not the same. I am saying one thing and you are saying something not related.

I am tryin to explain that the use of binoculars can only benefit the accurate scoring of trees. and you are trying to say a dog more accurate will win....What you are missing is that the less accurate dog becomes more accurate when the leaves are on. And the point is he shouldnt be rewarded as such....Havent you heard that saying "thats a summertime dog" or "he will look a lot better when the leaves get on"

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I got a better idea. Instead of using binoculars, game finders, mirrors, and anything that might sway in your favor, JUST GO HUNT!!!! Either you see the coon or not. It is either a slick or it could be there. Man up and tell what your dog is doing. A game finder is basically a lie detector for the dogs treed. Are you going to certify everybody that brings one and make a rule they have to use it on every tree. You can't give one cast an advantage and not do the same for all casts. Is UKC going to provide all this extra equipment so it can be handed out at each hunt? You will have to have one certified member on each cast. I am just joking because I think it is absolutly crazy that you would need a pair of bino's to see a coon. I have never used them to find a coon and think overall I have done a pretty good job. I mean if the tree is covered in leaves and you can't see anything but leaves what are you going to see with binoculars? How green and pretty the leaves really are? I have walked away from trees and thought "oh well'' they missed it, and look back and see eyes. It happens, you can't score every coon in every tree when the leaves are on so just go with it. Make honest decisions, not only on another guys tree, but on yours also. I heard one guy complain about a light on my dogs collar one night. He said it gave me an advantage to know when my dog went up on a tree. We never treed within three hundred yards all night. When the cast was over he had changed his mind and asked me why I actually ran the light. My answer, cause it looks cool going thru the woods blinking. He couldn't understand why me or anyone would use something that didn't give us an advantage. That is the mentality of most comp hunters now days and I wonder why years ago it was the dog that gave you the advantage, not the person handling it or the technology on the dog or in the handlers pocket.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

CHAINSAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!the true answer to it all. Might eat up the clock though...........LOL

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It has been my experience that most coonhunters are the same when it comes to scoring trees.
If their dog is not there, they are just sure its slick. If their dog is there, they know without a doubt a coon is there, they just cant get him to look.

Maybe the folks that don't want to see Binoculars allowed are right?????

Hummmm lets see, maybe we should also remove the tracking system and/or shocking system from the allowable equipment list as well. As this technology has given the hunter that can afford $500.00 to $1,000.00 for a tracker and another $500.00 for a shocker a much added advantage over the guy that can only afford the entry fee, when recovering a dog (on a time ouy) that got out of pocket, when you have one hour to find it and return to the cast. Probably should have just left that rule alone as well and just let them fellers get scratched for delaying the cast. After all, it will all even out in the end (won't it) ??

Probably wouldn't be fair to allow a man to use a $30.00 pair of binoculars to reduce the number of arguments and more fairly score a tree, "or would it" ????

If binoculars will make evryone happy and eliminate all tree scoring issues....Im all for it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocketman55
Maybe the folks that don't want to see Binoculars allowed are right?????

Hummmm lets see, maybe we should also remove the tracking system and/or shocking system from the allowable equipment list as well. As this technology has given the hunter that can afford $500.00 to $1,000.00 for a tracker and another $500.00 for a shocker a much added advantage over the guy that can only afford the entry fee, when recovering a dog (on a time ouy) that got out of pocket, when you have one hour to find it and return to the cast. Probably should have just left that rule alone as well and just let them fellers get scratched for delaying the cast. After all, it will all even out in the end (won't it) ??

Probably wouldn't be fair to allow a man to use a $30.00 pair of binoculars to reduce the number of arguments and more fairly score a tree, "or would it" ????

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quote:

---

Originally posted by joey bourne
I'm all for no shock collars. Have often wondered if a handler is toting the transmitter. As far as a a locating devise I wouldn't hunt without one. Its a safty issue for a dog. As far as locating devises for finding a coon, I could see where that would be good and bad. If there was off game behind them leaves or in that hole I think it would show the same signature?? Not really sure but I used some infared in the army and they wasn't really accurate. That was 20 + years ago things may be changed by now. If a tree is bushy and no coon seen circle it. If its a clean tree no coon seen minus!!!! My dog or your dog thats the way it should be. And as far as 100% accurate dog Never have saw one. They will all miss some more than others...jmo

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UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
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808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

I’ve been using IR cameras since the early 90’s. The technology has grown tremendous in the past decade. I’ve seen the antlers on a deer in the pitch black darkness. Was able to tell how many points. The Flir camera that I use is around $54,000. Flir offers several nice cameras under $5,000. I’ve noticed over the years of Coonhunting, they are a lot easier to find if they are there to begin with. Take your minus a go on. You might minus one coon out of a hundred trees.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rocketman55
Maybe the folks that don't want to see Binoculars allowed are right?????

Hummmm lets see, maybe we should also remove the tracking system and/or shocking system from the allowable equipment list as well. As this technology has given the hunter that can afford $500.00 to $1,000.00 for a tracker and another $500.00 for a shocker a much added advantage over the guy that can only afford the entry fee, when recovering a dog (on a time ouy) that got out of pocket, when you have one hour to find it and return to the cast. Probably should have just left that rule alone as well and just let them fellers get scratched for delaying the cast. After all, it will all even out in the end (won't it) ??

Probably wouldn't be fair to allow a man to use a $30.00 pair of binoculars to reduce the number of arguments and more fairly score a tree, "or would it" ????

---

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

Re: I think it would be an advantage...

quote:

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Originally posted by Christy
I'm sure that several of you have been on casts where there has been someone "Not see the coon" to keep themselves ahead, or to keep someone else from winning.

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i have

been on three cast in the last year that have been the way christy described

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If someone is not going to see a coon that is obvious,,,,,,,, what's going to change that by having that same person look with binoculars??????????? They still won't see it.

Comrade Creek

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Thats one way to look at it, another way if you try to keep an open mind is that people trying to score on spider eyes and dark clumps are not getting plussed when they shouldnt, or getting circle when in fact there really is not a hole b/c the cast got to look through a $10 pair of binoculars to make an honest decision.

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the biggest thing would be people to be honest and good sportsman.the best way is to let the dog be the winner and not the handler.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tracey Fincher
[B I’ve noticed over the years of Coonhunting, they are a lot easier to find if they are there to begin with. Take your minus a go on. You might minus one coon out of a hundred trees. [/B]

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I do like the idea of the panel. This will make even the most evel see your side of the story!

quote:

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Originally posted by Okie Dawg
So what do you think they could be doing with the control to a shock collar? I use mine to correct and call my dog. If I call it I would get scratched when it came to me and you would defenantly know if I corrected one with it.................Oh I allso use it for training but that would really be noticeable.
I think we should be able to carry the control so we can bring them in when they are headed to a highway or from places were they can't hear us. If you are a mile from the truck, the hunt is over and there running hard away from the truck and out of your calling distance it would be really handy too.

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You could do always go the Scott Engle way and show the 3 blind mice in the cast by shooting it out. LOL, does come with a penatly of gracing the suspended list though.

Wonder if them 3 guys on that cast ever played the blind game again on another cast?

quote:

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Originally posted by Blackwater Pete
Should be able to carry a camera to take pics of some of these trees that people want to circle also.

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