UKC Forums - Genetic and hereditary advances.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 10-07-2010 03:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GRAVEDIGGER
I think using semen is a great tool for breeders and overall can/will help improve breeding coondogs. However, in the walker breed I don't necessarily think it's needed as there is basically anything and everything out there already.

But as far as other breeds, I think that is where using semen could possibly make a huge impact. Some less popular breeds don't get to reproduce the sheer number of pups out of its' best reproducers for various reasons.

i thank that is the problem with walkers their is only a couple
strains out there and there long gone before most find them.

Posted by Tailkicker on 10-07-2010 03:56 AM:

Some of your alls reasoning messes with my head.

So basically the "perfect" dog is the one you must always go back to... what about making traits genetically mobile from one generation to the next.

Why in the world would u mix a brownie mix with a cake mix. That to me is BAD breeding ethics.

I guess im talking "perfect" theory...

If we screw up or because we screw up; we 'MUST' have that STANDARD (stud dog) available to go back to.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 10-07-2010 04:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tailkicker
Some of your alls reasoning messes with my head.

So basically the "perfect" dog is the one you must always go back to... what about making traits genetically mobile from one generation to the next.

Why in the world would u mix a brownie mix with a cake mix. That to me is BAD breeding ethics.

I guess im talking "perfect" theory...

If we screw up or because we screw up; we 'MUST' have that STANDARD (stud dog) available to go back to.

Well if you can find the perfect bitch go for it but a stud dog gets bred to every bitch that can afford him. There is no perfect dog but when you get one as close as you can and you like it YES go back to it.
Brownie breeding to cake is good stud breeding to crap bitch and it happens every day. They do it to improve the pups the bitch will have. When the bitch should not be bred at all BUT it happens every day. The earth is full of them above and below ground. One reason the mix gets messed up so much.

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Posted by Tailkicker on 10-07-2010 04:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Well if you can find the perfect bitch go for it but a stud dog gets bred to every bitch that can afford him. There is no perfect dog but when you get one as close as you can and you like it YES go back to it.
Brownie breeding to cake is good stud breeding to crap bitch and it happens every day. They do it to improve the pups the bitch will have. When the bitch should not be bred at all BUT it happens every day. The earth is full of them above and below ground. One reason the mix gets messed up so much.

What ever happened to "breed the best to best and cull the rest".... not 'breed the best to anythign that flags and see what makes it"

Posted by Okie Dawg on 10-07-2010 04:17 AM:

It never existed except in the GOOD BREEDERS. lol
and they are the minority. The rest just wants a good of pup as they can get out of there what ever bitch.

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 10-07-2010 04:24 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tailkicker
What ever happened to "breed the best to best and cull the rest".... not 'breed the best to anythign that flags and see what makes it"

not to butt in but somebody start hunting for 60,0000

Posted by CSnowgren on 10-07-2010 05:01 AM:

Interesting poll. My answer was yes, most certainly. I think if one is truly objective in what their stud produces, they can easily see that very few studs produce high quality animals. As the pool of mediocre to average producers increase, the lines/breed suffers. It is nice to have that special producing dog on ice to use until one can be found and proven to replace him. Additionally, it is often later in life where the studs potency as a producer becomes truly realized. I'd hate to be the guy that failed to secure that set of genes for years to come and have to resort to using a mediocre animal or worse yet, be someone elses guinea pig.

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Posted by pigsit on 10-07-2010 01:42 PM:

Ok, heres the deal, how much have hounds actually "improved" over the past twenty years? Not a lot really, I think we have diminished the tracking ability of some and bred some powerful tree dogs, but the balanced hound is hard to find. I have semen saved on two of my hounds, not because they are world champions, but because they fit well into my breeding program, and I want to preserve the traits they have. The best dog I ever owned was a son of Lipper; he could tree any kind of coon, had great track speed and was extremely loud. He produced that kind of dog, and I hunted his pups for another ten years, but I didn't save any semen, and I've had several females since that I would love to have bred him too. It took another ten years to find a similar hound, not the same quality,but with a lot of the "traits" I desire in a hound, loud, accurate, great track speed and the ability to trail a coon any where. With saved semen, when those special females come along I can make the cross and see what the pups turn into. Oh yeah, I'm not a Saturday night coon hunter; I hunt from five to seven nights a week and it takes a pretty good hound to stand up under the presssure. I desire a balanced hound, and that's what I'm breeding for, Tom

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Posted by Christy on 10-07-2010 04:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Johnson
I could care less about what football players offspring made it to the NBA, but I guarantee if there was any Sackett Jr semen available their would be a line at the door. He had several son's advertised at stud, none that I know of ever reproduced as good as him. (Yes, I know the percent on Rat Attack was higher, but I personally never hunted with any that was in the same catagory as Jr, and they just were not my style of coondog). Yet, every dog on my kennel goes back to Jr through his sons and daughters.
Same for Lipper, can't think of one son that stepped up to take his place and reproduced as well as him, yet folks are still breeding to his semen, trying to get one like him.

What current living walker stud can claim to be as good a reproducer as Lipper or Sackett Jr???
So if we have the ability to go back, why not?

IF WE COULD BREED TO SACKETT JR SEMEN....WOW. WHAT A DREAM COME TRUE! LOL.

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Posted by deepsouthkennels86 on 10-07-2010 04:29 PM:

i like some old blood b/c of the traits it throws and that the only way i get it is seman

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Posted by BIG$BLUES on 10-07-2010 10:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
I am not going to get into the sports, but stick to the dogs.

Sometimes as a line takes various turns it goes in a new direction. That is a good reason why having frozen semen can be a benefit.

It only takes one bad cross to return back to zero.

Well said and i agree 100%

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Posted by Tailkicker on 10-08-2010 01:18 AM:

So I have 2 "NOs" wonder what their reasoning is.

Posted by rance56 on 10-08-2010 02:13 AM:

Re: Genetic and hereditary advances.

quote:
Originally posted by Tailkicker
Should Semen be used from a dead stud?

look at the men in college basketball and heeading to the pros.. most are "offspring" of the greats of the game. .

um, no they are not

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Posted by Tailkicker on 10-08-2010 02:53 AM:

um.. why do we keep returning to the sports thing...

Posted by tmeredith on 10-08-2010 03:32 AM:

WHY

WORRY YOURSELF ABOUT IT ANYWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT A SEMEM DOG DON'T GET ONE , AND LEAVE THE GUY'S THAT WANT THEM ALONE!

I WOULDN'T TRY TO TELL YOU WHAT TO BREED AND I **** SURE DON'T WANT ANYBODY BOTHERING ME OVER IT!!

THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS WHOLE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW EVERY BODY POKING IN EVERYONE'S BUISSINESS !!!!!

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Posted by rance56 on 10-08-2010 03:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tailkicker
um.. why do we keep returning to the sports thing...

because you made a categorically wrong statement as fact in your premise.

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Posted by Tailkicker on 10-08-2010 04:15 AM:

Re: Genetic and hereditary advances.

quote:
Originally posted by Tailkicker
basketball players 5 generations ago were not the athletes they are today... look at the men in college SPORTS and heading to the pros.. many more today than yesteryear are "offspring" of the greats of the game.
[/B]

rance56 - is this statement better... if we culd at least keep to the subject matter.

tmeredith - ok so your answer is YES... thanks for the opinion. Not poking in anyones business, just wnated some opinions on this and have myself grown form the comments that were posted by others.

Every cross should make a better coondog... and from what i gather whether thats from 20 year old genetics or new.

Posted by Tailkicker on 10-09-2010 11:46 PM:

are there any opinions or insights?

Posted by Justin Smith on 10-10-2010 12:12 AM:

I think the facts will show that semen pups aren't tearing up the world ... I've been a part of two frozen semen litters and they were nice pups , but to be honest I don't think the expense justified what came from them ...

..obviously you're not gonna get anything new from breeding to old semen ...

I will say that I do have a female from the first frozen semen litter that I wouldn't take anything for ...

.. there are no shortcuts in breeding coondogs ... legwork and knowing your stock will get better results than going with long distance studs or big name frozen semen ...

What we actually need is more people to educate themselves on the in and outs of breeding and to make better decisions .. that will move us forward faster than anything ..

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