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-- English 4th gen. all grand male who's is best (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=36692)

WOW.....

after reading this post i noticed i had white knuckles....from holding on to the sides of the computer desk, so the WIND woulden't blow me over! he he

Hey Eric....

Don is just a proud owner!!!

I also totally agree with what John writes:

"That is what has me worried. That is why us English Breeders must work together to help our breed. Papers do not tree coon, but if you have a ALL Grand pedigree that is just as good a dog that does not have an All Grand pedigree you are stupid not to have the All Grand pedigree. We need to have some outcrosses to bred to those dogs that have a all grand pedigree. I have one female here that I am going to use as an outcross, but we need other lines that people have worked hard to get so we can keep these dogs in the winner circle. I wished Eugene Boyd was able to still promote the dogs he would have a Boyds Little Joe male at stud.
Their are alot of good English dogs out there, but our breed unlike walkers have only a few lines of dogs. That is going to hurt us becasue we must make outcrosses and if we do not it will hurt our line of English dogs.
Like Don said we are looking for a outcross to bred to the all grand dogs too. I hope someone can help us with this.
Good Hunting"

I'm proud of the fact I am attempting to get a 4 way degree on my female (almost there), she is double Rooster bred and really pleases me. It took me six yeras to breed a dog like her. The outcross I have planned for her is to the breeding of John's line of dogs and is something I have been studying long before they became Grands.

Just a bunch of us proud English owners blowin a bit!!LOL!
I love these English dogs! Have a great day!!

__________________
Doug Robinson

Past Home of:
GRNITECH FCH GRCH ROBINSON'S SILVERTONE BLUSPECK HTX DNA-P
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH ROBINSON'S RED LINDSAY
NITECH GRFCH GRWCH GRCH ROBINSON'S CROOKTAIL KATE
GRNITECH GRCH ROBINSON'S CIDERHOUSE LULU
NITECH GRCH GRFCH GRWCH RED RIDGE'S SUPER SHOCK Z HTX2
NITECH GRCH ROBINSON'S OATKA VALLEY ANNIE (BLUSPECK DAUGHTER)
NITECH GRCH ROBINSON'S JJ THUNDER SUE

Current
CH PR ROBINSON'S OATKA VALLEY JUNEBUG - (GRNITECH PKC CH RIVER BOTTOM'S CRACKER JACK X NITECH GRCH ROBINSON'S OATKA VALLEY ANNIE)

In my opinion the best 4 generation all grand english is no question,Gr Nt Ch Adkins' Nite Thunder,even though I haven't seen all of the others in the woods,I think he's the tops,If I didn't think so I wouldn't have bred my female to him.
Another thing to consider is his owner,you don't ever see Mr.Adkins on here blowing smoke and bragging about all of his wins or all of the top dogs he has drawed and beaten,not that anybody on here does,blow smoke,or lie,or brag.
Randy

Smoke blowers

When you get on here and tell it like it is than people think you are blowing smoke. Well anyone who thinks so can come down and bring their hound and I AM WILLING TO SHOW THEM A COONHOUND. I do not need to blow smoke. I have let my hounds do the talking. If you do not like what I HAVE TO SAY WHO CARES. what I have said is the truth as best I know it. So if you have a problem I have the solution. Bring your hound and come on down and I WILL SHOW YOU. I have opened the door and I am willing to put up are you? If not then who is blowing smoke. To me blowing smoke is telling a lie. There for you are calling me a liar and I WILL NOT TAKE IT. So if you do not want to put up shut up.

Randy

I agree that Thunder is a good hound. He may be the best to you but what I am looking for is a outcross. It needs to be a 4th gen. all grand. See here is the problem.
Thunder, Dan ,Zeb, Rat Poison are all from John's Ten and Queen which are sisters. They are out of Durango and Lucky. Thunder is out of St. Nick and Queen. Lucky and St. Nick are littermates.
Casper, Max A Million, Briar Creek Cruise Control, Prowler, and a dog named Cutter are out of Huck A Buck and Lucky. This makes all these hounds related. I am not telling anyone what dog to breed to and do not care. What I am wanting to know is there a 4th gen. all grand out there that is a outcross?
I have some good females to breed to my hounds and do not need anyone else to be able to breed good pups. I am trying to find a outcross to help the English breed. So this line can move forwards. If someone does not find one most of these hounds have no way to move forward.
I also have females from this line and I want to be able to make a total outcross. This is what the English breed needs and we need it soon.

Well
Don you wanted to know what people thought so I voiced my opinion,like I said I haven't hunted with all of them soI can't tell anybody who the best is ,but from what I've seen Thunder is GOOOOOOOOOOOD,and he will reproduce also.
Now for calling you a liar I did not I know some people get on here and lie and blow smoke,so for now I'll think twice about putting my two cents in on your little poll,I've never met you,and probably never will so you can't judge somebody from what they type.If thats how you took it well thats your mistake,and for the private message you sent me I don't own a hair on Thunder so me and him won't be coming down.Good luck to you with,Casper,Prowler,Joker and all of your fine females.
Randy

As a fancier of the English Breed. I just hope that people don't start makin' crosses just for the sake of an All-Grand pedigree, I mean if it looks like it will work, and the parents are deserving, GO FOR IT, but if for some reason it didn't work before, or just don't look like it will work, or for whatever reason, I hope these crosses aren't made just to get the All-Grand papers, just my opinion.

As for as the original question, seems like the Hardtime Swamp Cat dog can sire an all grand, as can Hardtime Homer of Asa Briggs, the current UKC World Champ English Herd's Barber Creek Ace, Naosho Valley Roller, Long's Crossroads Dan, so it seems like their would be some choices out there. Also two son's of Rocky Run Blue Terry in the Yearbook that can throw 2 generation all-grands, so that should help out with the Boyd's Little Joe dog.

Since Chip Wisecup and I were the first in the English Breed to have an All Grand Litter we did so becasue Lucky had faults that were Durango strengths. It so happen it was a all grand litter
There is alot of nice english hounds out there that do not have an all grand pedigree and if we get blind and just look for dogs that have an all grand pedigree we could tear our breed apart.
We need to work together. This thread has been kind of ashamed to me because I have started the all grand pedigree because my motto has been Lets Work together and to me I am hearing language that does not sound like we are working together.
People that have those dogs they are talking about they all came from here.
I think it is best just let the dogs to the speaking and they will reproduce because they are bred too, however if we sit and fight who has the best one it will tear our breed apart by getting people mad at each other. This happen years ago when their was a National English Ass and then the United English Breeders Assoc was formed because of fights among its members. I and the breed to don't want that.

I agree with some other replies, if the dog is in your kennel and your feeding it, it should be the best to your standards and second of all every one likes differnt traits in dogs. Titles are nice but not every thing. I myself hunt with some dogs that are from the lines at hand, and i am pleased, as english breeders and fanciers people should get along and do whats right for the breed



P.S The last person that was windy and caused trouble on the message board finally got barred

All-Grand

All-Grand is fine. But, that should not be a breeding objective. Always put ability first. If you pass on an outstanding dog and reproducer because it does not have an All Grand pedigree, you're not breeding for coondogs, you're breeding for papers.

English coonhounds

This is what it is all about with me. Yes, I hunt english coonhounds and has not only hunted for the fun or sport of it. I also do the thing of competition hunting. I have hunted with a lot of good hounds from yesterday. We must stand together and make a better hound. We must try to have that hound that will make us proud to have on that chain. When the young man that placed and is the World Champ for the english breed that was a major event in his life. That is one of the goals that we would all love to have or be the World Champion. There are a lot of opinion on ALL GRAND and yes I would love to have one in my back yard. We must remember as with any hound it must reproduce it likeness or throw back from it background a good quality coonhound that will tree coons that will satisfy it owner. I have some good female as I may think. This year I will be breeding two of my grandnite female to outside males. This is to help the english breed and i need some female to breed back to my Rocky male. Hope that all will work together to help the english coonhound.

Nat Powell
Rainstorm English Kennel

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Rainstorm English Kennels [i]
Grnitech Moore's Hardtime RockyII Semen

GrNiteCh PKC CH Ragan's Hatchie River Style

GrNitech Hardtime Awesome Ghost


GrNitech Powell Rainstorm Red Crickit.

GrNitech Ashley Red Cloud -- Semen

GrNitech Harrison Slew Foot Semen



NITECH CH Powell Rainstorm Cloud Buster

English breeders

I know that all the English breeders out there is trying to help out the English breed. An to all of you out there I would like to say thanks. It takes years of hard work and a lot of deadicated people to make a line of hounds that will make us all proud. My hat goes off to all of these people. Thanks and keep up the good work.

Don - I am not sure if he is a 4 Gen or not but I have heard good things on Hard Time Swamp Cat from some fellow coonhunters. Definitely worth checking into.....

Jeremy

Swamp Cat is siring a all grand. He is the sire of my GRNTCH GRCH Triple D Rambling Rose female. He is thowing some good hounds and Richard has him bred to some good females. I have looked at him and may breed to him. I am also looking at a few other males. It is hard to pick a male because of all you must figuare into it. Thanks for your help and if there is anything I can do for you let me Know.

Gayle

Congrats on finishing Doc into NTCH. I think Doc will make Lucky the #1 reproducing female of all time. Thanks should go out to all the people who hunt this line of hounds. John has done a great job of making this line one of the best out there.
I have 2 hounds out of Lucky. Casper and Prowler are out of Lucky and Huck A Buck. I realy like them. I hope to meet you one day. I have only heard good things about you for years
We would like to thank Paul for his help and all his hard work. We need more people like yall in our sport. We are loosing to many good people in our sport.

Don I Think you own 2 Fine Hounds. You Should Give Credit to where Credit Is due to the person Who Trained Him. See a while Back You where Wanting a all grand Female That is Finished Or is a Night Champion. IM Going to be Honest Papers Are Here To help Sell Pups. a Coondog Is Great to own But a Coon Dog With Allgrand Papers Is Awesome. Now what I feel Should Go into A hound is Ability Then when You Breed You hound with ability to another dog With ability you get all a better chance To produce Coondogs That fit your Liking. Then you take that dog out of that cross and breed to another dog you want somthing to counter act the faults of each other and so on. You keep doing that and you produce Coondogs. Now If you take the work that somebody Built for years and are trying to find a outcross That has to be all grand I would Be offended ITs nice for that pedigree But its not just that. What if you found another 4 gen. allgrand dog and not only did the Cross Not work but it magnified your Faults on your dogs whats that going to tell people. That your hound Reproduces Culls When thats not the Truth you just didnt do your math and found a sutible mate for your dogs. Im Just saying papers are not everything But think of the larger pic. if your breeding papers and not coondogs it reflecs other people not just you. Im working on a out cross to this Cross Cant be made again and Besides The breeder and I i think we have all the females except for maybe one
She produces all grand
She runs and trees own coon.
She is mouthy on track steady chop on tree.
She treed her own coon at 9 months of age she is very independent
she is 15 months old she also kicks up a deer every so often when nothings running
I will say my dogs faults
Unlike you don just promoting stud dogs I never hear you talk about your Dogs Faults
Cody Marsh

Cody Marsh

I would like to say thanks for saying that you think I own 2 fine hounds. You say I should give credit whre it is due. I have thanked Eric for selling, buying, training, and hunting Casper. I also have told Eric that if he wants a pup out of Casper it is his. I also gave him my word that I would not breed him until he was finished. I also gave my word to breed all females that he had said he would breed to Casper and would breed any female he wanted bred to Casper. I hate computers so when I want to talk to Eric I call him and he calls me. I did not use Eric as a ref. because I did not ask him to. Eric said it was ok. So if you want to know about Casper call Eric and he can tell you.
Yes I was looking for a all grand female sure I would like a NTCH or GRNTCH. I have the hounds to breed good pups but I want to breed a 5th gen all grand that is out of two Duel Grand. Now why Duel Grand? Well I will tell you. They have at least 2 of the traits I am looking for. It is ability and comformation. I agree that breeding for ability gives you a better Chance to get coonhounds.But I breed a duel purpose hound. I want a hound that can win the show and then win the hunt that night. Now everyone must start somewhere.I looked first at consitsence for the last 3 to 4gen. to see what was reproducing and what was not. I took a reg. dog and hunted it into some of these hounds. That is why I started breeding my own. Yes I started with someone elses blood and so did everyone else. There are nnot very many English diff. bloods out there. So for years these blood have been crossed and recrossed. Some time you need to add something diff. to refresh your line. Then you can breed this back out. Not all crosses work and if it does not don't do it again.It is your job to find a cross that will work. But a real stud dog will sire good pups out of most females. Casper is doing this now I am looking for a all grand female that is a reproducer. I am very pertick about breeding. I do not breed a lot but most are good ones.

Cody Marsh

I am glad to see that other peole are working on a out cross. You know there are at leased 50- people working on a out cross. It is ok for them but if I look for one to breed I am just breeding for papers. I am looking for female but she must be the RIGHT one and not just a all grand. If I find a female I will travel and spend the time to see to it she is what I want. One male dog is not the best dog to breed all females to. Now this is My opinion when you are going to breed a female. Y ou look at that female to see what her faults are and use a male that has the strong points to balance out your hound. This is why I have traveled all over the country to find duel purpose hounds. Yes it takes years of hard work from people that most people have not heard of to make this happen. Or you can travel aroung with a good hound and buy the best that you can. This is what I have done and will continue to do. The best is never owned by one man so you must do your homework and make a lot of calls to everywhere. You sometime drive for days to find out they are not what you want. Here and there you can find good ones but it is work and they are not cheap. You must have the genetics in a houng to get them out and if he doesn't have them you can't get them out of him. I will not breed show dogs. She must run and tree her own coon or I will not breed her. I am choosey about all females I breed more choosey than most. If a hound is not a real coonhound he will not be here. I try to keep the best of the best that I breed.

Cody Marsh

Sounds like you have a good young female. I am happy for you. You said that she has faults. You said that she might kick up a deer if nothing was moving. Is this her fault? I do not think so. It was a training fault for not breaking her. Now I am not saying this is bad but alot of young hounds will run off game. It takes a dog to grow up and for the owner to let her know not to chase off game. My friend has a tame deer and I use it to break my young hounds.It works real good and after a time or two they wiil not even bark on a deer.
We all know that ever hound has holes. It is up to the handler to break, train, or just let go and try to cover them. I try to make sure that I know what a hound will do before I put it in the hunts. Yes I am relative new to com. hound breeding and this makes the old timers mad. This is just how it is they work on a breed for years and a young new comer comes along and buys the better ones. If I was one of the old timers I might be a little upset. Everyone must realize that we must make room for the new people or our sport is done. It may be done before long without all the bickering. If those animal people have their way. We all need to stick together and fight them not fight with each other.
You say I should list my 2 dogs faults so here goes. Iwish all of my hounds had Joker's mouth. I wish Casper was as red as Prowler. Joker does not have enough ticks for my liking. Prowler will babble if you have not hunted him lately. The biggest fault that my hounds have is me. I do not have enough money to run the Purina race or run the big hunts. I do not have any handlers(except a friend or kid at the club house). My son and I am it .We take one hound at a time and hunt it, train and Com. hunt it. My son does all the showing. There are a kid or two at the club and I will let them hunt my hound. I have had a lot of kids hunt my dogs and put wins on them. I have tried to answer all of your questions the best I can. If you would like to talk hounds I am not very good on a computer. My # is 304-623-9788 or post your # and I will call you.

Cody Marsh

I would like to invite you to come down and hunt with anyone of my hounds. This way you can know for yourself just what kind of hound I am breeding. Everyone on here thinks that I invite everyone down so I can try to beat their hound. This is not the case. I am looking for people to train and hunt hounds out of this line. We do not have a lot of coon around here and it is hard to get young pups started for this reason. I invite everyone down to hunt so I can get people to tell what my hounds are doing. The other reason is I get people to maybe be interested in my hounds. Any dog can have a good win rate if the owner does his homework. The hounds I put in a hunt I take the time to do this. It cuts down on the faults of any hound. Sure I like to hunt with good hounds. If I can get people to look at my hounds MOST OF THEM WIILL WANT ONE. I ran one add in CB last June. I sell ever pup I breed to people I have hunted with or by word of mouth. I put my hounds on here to help out the English hound. I use this to advertise a little but I think it is like the National Inquirer. I try to tell it the best that I know it and can not make anyone happy. Iwill turn anyone of them loose so anyone who wants to see what they can do.

Don hows it been going just wanted to wish you guys a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year I have bought me another hound to breed my Huck A Buck and Ten and Huck A Buck and Anny females to I believe he has been my missing link will have to wait and see



Good Luck and Good Hunting


Pete

Pete

Merry Christmas to yall. May God bless you and your family all year long. It is very cold and we got a little snow here. Not very good weather to hunt in but I get out every time I can. Working on some young females. Gettingthem ready for the hunt when they start back. There are a few hunts from now to March when the hunts pick up. Hope everyone got what they wanted for Christmas. Hope to see you at the hunts soon. Well maybe it is a little time off. Keep on hunting them English hounds.

Happy New Year

I would like to wish everyone a happy New Year and may God bless you and your family all year long. I hope to see everyone at the hunts as soon as they start. Until then have fun hunting and good luck with all the young hounds out there. Remember that hunting is great but it is even better when you take a young person with you. They are the future of our sport.
The W.V. State Youth Hunt will be held at the Marshville Club. It is located just outside of Clarksburg and about 3 miles from my house. So if there is any young hunters out there who may need my help in anyway just call me and I will try to help. My son will be here to help also. My number is 304-623-9788. If you would like to have your own guide we may be able to help. I know that all the guys at Marshville will want to help all the kids we can.

Some of ya'll are to caught up on titles

To me the guy who buys a pup and trains it and puts hours of hard work into it and makes a coondog out of it (no matter what his papers say)has more to brag about than the guys buying all these grand dogs already finished and then promoting them and telling everybody how great of hounds they have tied in their yard.
Hey,nothing wrong with the titles.I like them too,but there's a lot of real nice coondogs that will be overlooked because they ain't got the right titles on them.
Just my 2 cents worth and it probably ain't even worth 2 cents!

__________________
Redticker