UKC Forums - was i the honest judge?

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Posted by on 07-12-2010 04:39 PM:

I don't either Dean. But the situation in this post isn't about a dog meeting it's handler even though the handler tried to use that as an excuse for a dog that left the tree and barked on a different tree.
As for the meet and greet rule, I hate that rule in all three KC's BUT..... I just judge it the way the Advisor instructs us to judge it. Kellam says UKC does not legislate treeing style. Either they are there or they aren't. How they tree is not controlled by the rules.

Posted by Geminite on 07-12-2010 08:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
nose in their ass

Hahahaha!!!

Sounds like you handled the judging correctly and fairly. Some guys just don't like to take their minus.

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Posted by nhcooner2 on 07-12-2010 09:15 PM:

CWS WHAT!

If "me too dogs don't get first tree",as you say, then why did this dog (dog c) leave the cast after the other two dogs opened, received third strike and get first tree? Sounds like a me too dog all the way (at least this one has a nose).

Sounds like it needs other dogs to find a track because he hunts close the owner, and finishes the track quicker than the other two could?????

I know a dog that it is slow on trail, when he opens the other dog runs in and finishes the track.

They all can't be barn burners.

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Posted by Jim Stinnett on 07-12-2010 09:52 PM:

I have a question about the coon that was seen.

Even if the cast had voted on it and shine time wasnt up couldnt the cast revote after coon was seen?

I know if shine time is up its up.

I am sure this happens alot this time of year.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 07-12-2010 11:26 PM:

Re: CWS WHAT!

quote:
Originally posted by nhcooner2
If "me too dogs don't get first tree",as you say, then why did this dog (dog c) leave the cast after the other two dogs opened, received third strike and get first tree? Sounds like a me too dog all the way (at least this one has a nose).

Sounds like it needs other dogs to find a track because he hunts close the owner, and finishes the track quicker than the other two could?????

I know a dog that it is slow on trail, when he opens the other dog runs in and finishes the track.

They all can't be barn burners.

what do you mean you still have 0 + pts a pair boots wore
out.i would just soon he keep my ft warm

Posted by DANNY RAMEY on 07-13-2010 12:55 AM:

I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YA'LL. YOU DIDN'T DO NOTHING REALLY BAD WRONG BUT YOU SAID DOGS WE'RE STRUCK IN DEEP AND YOU WOULDN'T MOVE TOWARDS THEM. YOUR SUPPOSED TO STAY WITHIN JUDGING DISTANCE OF THE DOGS THAT MEANS WHEN THEIR TURNED LOOSE AND STRUCK IN DEEP YOU NEED TO MOVE TOWARDS THEM. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU THOUGHT SINCE THAT DOG WAS SITTING AT YOUR FEET YOU WANTED TO MINUSE IT CAUSE YOU THOUGHT IT DIDN'T DESERVE TO WIN. A CAST DON'T NEED TO STAND AROUND THE TRUCK LISTENING FOR DOGS DEEP YOU NEED TO BE RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER SO YOU CAN GET TO THE TREE AND SCORE IT. I'VE ALSO HEARD THE DOG PUT ITS NOSE ON THE GROUND SO ITS MINUSED RULE BEFORE ALSO AND ITS NOT A RULE. IF THAT DOG IS SHOWING A END TO THE TRAIL HE'S THEIR IF HE GOES ON AND STARTS BACK HUNTING THEN MINUS HIM BUT IF HE COMES OFF AND CHECKS HIMSELF THEN JUMPS BACK ON THE TREE YOU CAN'T MINUS HIM "" FAIRLY''.. SOUNDS LIKE YOU CHOOSE NOT TO WALK BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOU WE'RE WALKING HIS DOG AND YOU SAID NO CAUSE YOU WANT THAT DOG MINUSED OR SCRATCHED FOR NOT HUNTING. I'M NOT SAYING YOUR REALLY WRONG CAUSE I KNOW HOW IT IS BUT I'M SURE YOU SHOWED A LITTLE VENGENCE TOWARDS THAT DOG FOR NOT TAKING RIGHT OFF AND GETTING IN WITH THE OTHERS. YOU DONE GOOD I'M JUST GIVING MY OPINION SINCE YOU ASKED FOR SOME AND I'M NOT AGAINST YOU OR SAYING YOUR REALLY WRONG BUT IF YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT THAT DOG DONE REALLY GOOD JUST TO BE SITTING AROUND CAUSE HE WENT IN AND MADE TO FIRST TREE'S. YOU WANTED TO MINUS HIM AND START NON HUNTING TIME BECAUSE YOU HAD A PERSONEL PROBLEM WITH THE WAY THE DOG HUNTED.

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 07-13-2010 01:00 AM:

how can he be showing the end if he is checking himself
and dont know where the end is

Posted by DANNY RAMEY on 07-13-2010 01:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticking: it
how can he be showing the end if he is checking himself
and dont know where the end is

HE'S STILL GOES BACK AND SHOWS YOU WHERE THE ANIMAL IS UNLESS WE WANT TO ACT LIKE WE'RE IGNORANT I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A LONG WAYS BUT IF HE GOES A SHORT DISTANCE AND PUTS HIS NOSE ON THE GROUND AND THE HAULS ASS BACK TO THE TREE HE SHOULDN'T BE MINUSED

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 07-13-2010 01:52 AM:

no sir,that tree got - to maybe that is why she was checking
herself

Posted by OldSouth on 07-13-2010 01:57 AM:

I don't believe there's anything in U>K>C> rules that says you have to stand in one spot and not move ,I believe the rules say a handler can request that the cast move in the direction the dogs are cast.I don,t have the rules handy,so instead of all of this personal likes and dislikes,could someone post what the rule actually says.

Posted by Redbone Chic on 07-13-2010 02:26 AM:

Re: Tough judging

From your description, it sounds like this is was a young dog with the "ME TOO"disease. It must have been a little annoying to watch that dog get first tree all night.

the dog was 7 years old....

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Posted by Redbone Chic on 07-13-2010 02:35 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by DANNY RAMEY
I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH YA'LL. YOU DIDN'T DO NOTHING REALLY BAD WRONG BUT YOU SAID DOGS WE'RE STRUCK IN DEEP AND YOU WOULDN'T MOVE TOWARDS THEM. YOUR SUPPOSED TO STAY WITHIN JUDGING DISTANCE OF THE DOGS THAT MEANS WHEN THEIR TURNED LOOSE AND STRUCK IN DEEP YOU NEED TO MOVE TOWARDS THEM. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU THOUGHT SINCE THAT DOG WAS SITTING AT YOUR FEET YOU WANTED TO MINUSE IT CAUSE YOU THOUGHT IT DIDN'T DESERVE TO WIN. A CAST DON'T NEED TO STAND AROUND THE TRUCK LISTENING FOR DOGS DEEP YOU NEED TO BE RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER SO YOU CAN GET TO THE TREE AND SCORE IT. I'VE ALSO HEARD THE DOG PUT ITS NOSE ON THE GROUND SO ITS MINUSED RULE BEFORE ALSO AND ITS NOT A RULE. IF THAT DOG IS SHOWING A END TO THE TRAIL HE'S THEIR IF HE GOES ON AND STARTS BACK HUNTING THEN MINUS HIM BUT IF HE COMES OFF AND CHECKS HIMSELF THEN JUMPS BACK ON THE TREE YOU CAN'T MINUS HIM "" FAIRLY''.. SOUNDS LIKE YOU CHOOSE NOT TO WALK BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT YOU WE'RE WALKING HIS DOG AND YOU SAID NO CAUSE YOU WANT THAT DOG MINUSED OR SCRATCHED FOR NOT HUNTING. I'M NOT SAYING YOUR REALLY WRONG CAUSE I KNOW HOW IT IS BUT I'M SURE YOU SHOWED A LITTLE VENGENCE TOWARDS THAT DOG FOR NOT TAKING RIGHT OFF AND GETTING IN WITH THE OTHERS. YOU DONE GOOD I'M JUST GIVING MY OPINION SINCE YOU ASKED FOR SOME AND I'M NOT AGAINST YOU OR SAYING YOUR REALLY WRONG BUT IF YOU STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT THAT DOG DONE REALLY GOOD JUST TO BE SITTING AROUND CAUSE HE WENT IN AND MADE TO FIRST TREE'S. YOU WANTED TO MINUS HIM AND START NON HUNTING TIME BECAUSE YOU HAD A PERSONEL PROBLEM WITH THE WAY THE DOG HUNTED.

MY dog was the one up the hill aways, he's **** loud enough we didn't need to move to him cause they circled right back around. his dog was sitting at our feet i didn't minus it for sitting at our feet... i minused it when it left the tree they were on and came around to some trees fallen down and barked up another tree. THATS NOT SHOWING TREE IT WAS ON. i stated to handled dogs and he never did until i said it extremely loud. he was next to me.... AND I WILL NEVER OWN A DOG THAT SITS AT MY FEET WAITING FOR THE OTHER DOGS... thats bull. AND READ THE POST AGAIN CAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND. UNLESS YOU DON'T KNOW COMP. HUNTS EITHER.... i never minused it for the way it hunted just for the mistakes it deserved minus for.. and my dog as well as the other were minused he was just to concerned about his. i know for a fact he saw his dog running around NOT ON THE TREE but just didn't want to take minus. I was probably an easy judge for him wait til he does draw out with someone who really wants to win. and may i add my dog only needs a 1st to be a nite champion and i finished that night with 350- so doesn't look like i REALLY WANTED TO WIN BY CHEATING

Posted by Redbone Chic on 07-13-2010 02:40 AM:

and we did move when he wanted too, his dog walked next to me. licked my leg a few time and sat on my foot.... the dog came a good distance not no short one. i would not have had a problem with the dog going back to the tree if it didn't bark up on another one and go off on another track and come back.

Posted by fatboy77 on 07-13-2010 03:34 AM:

as long as you can look at your self in the mirror and feel good about your self that is all that matters

in the comp . world sooner or later some one is going to say you dont know the rules or cheated

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Posted by mountaineer1 on 07-13-2010 06:06 AM:

i didn't think you could break 30min not hunting
example
10min.first drop
20min.second drop

the dog is scrached
please correct me if i'm wrong

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Posted by on 07-13-2010 06:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
Sorry Tully, a hunting judge makes all decisions except scoring a tree and calling time out. Also the judge WILL be the first to the tree by UKC rules, it is very important to the correct judging of a cast. If I'm judging I tell the cast members at the start that if you beat me to the tree,you can beat me to the truck!

It sounds to me like the cast was judged fairly.

Should a situation arise where a handler questions a call that was made, or a call that should have been made but wasn’t , that handler may ask to have his question voted on by all cast members that remain with the cast at that time.

All the rules I read say majority of cast vote when hunting judges are used in exception to when a dog quits trail and comes in.

Judge or majority of cast if hunting Judge is used, may call time out.

Just saying I have drawn out with judges that have immediately said that we were all to vote on every call.

If dogs are split, and all dogs are declared treed you can handle your dog regardless of whether the judge is there or not.

I believe every word you said Alex, but I can see where it would be hard for some people to swallow hearing their dog left the tree after being asked to hang back a ways.

Posted by RED REBELS on 07-13-2010 07:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by mountaineer1
i didn't think you could break 30min not hunting
example
10min.first drop
20min.second drop

the dog is scrached
please correct me if i'm wrong

i believe your correct, but i dont know for sure.

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Posted by Geminite on 07-13-2010 07:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by mountaineer1
i didn't think you could break 30min not hunting
example
10min.first drop
20min.second drop

the dog is scrached
please correct me if i'm wrong

Rule 6(d).
Dog will be scratched for failing to make any attempt to hunt within any 30 consecutive scorecard minutes.

The dog has to be nonhunting for 30 minutes all at once. Not ten minutes here and ten minutes there.

Posted by on 07-13-2010 02:09 PM:

Sorry, but you are wrong about that one Geminite. If a dog has the 30 running and time is called, the 30 minutes resumes where it left off when the clock is restarted. Page 60 from the Advisor explains it.

Posted by nhcooner2 on 07-13-2010 06:35 PM:

True BUT....

True with the 30 consecutive minutes, BUT if the dog does not hunt at drop#1 for 20 minutes, then at drop #2 the dog hunts , then at drop #3 the dog stands at your feet for 10 minutes he is not scratched. It was not 30 consecutive minutes due to drop #2.

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Posted by DANNY RAMEY on 07-13-2010 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redbone Chic
MY dog was the one up the hill aways, he's **** loud enough we didn't need to move to him cause they circled right back around. his dog was sitting at our feet i didn't minus it for sitting at our feet... i minused it when it left the tree they were on and came around to some trees fallen down and barked up another tree. THATS NOT SHOWING TREE IT WAS ON. i stated to handled dogs and he never did until i said it extremely loud. he was next to me.... AND I WILL NEVER OWN A DOG THAT SITS AT MY FEET WAITING FOR THE OTHER DOGS... thats bull. AND READ THE POST AGAIN CAUSE I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND. UNLESS YOU DON'T KNOW COMP. HUNTS EITHER.... i never minused it for the way it hunted just for the mistakes it deserved minus for.. and my dog as well as the other were minused he was just to concerned about his. i know for a fact he saw his dog running around NOT ON THE TREE but just didn't want to take minus. I was probably an easy judge for him wait til he does draw out with someone who really wants to win. and may i add my dog only needs a 1st to be a nite champion and i finished that night with 350- so doesn't look like i REALLY WANTED TO WIN BY CHEATING

ITS HARD TO HUNT ON A COMPUTER IF YOU FEEL AS THOUGH YOU WE'RE RIGHT THEN SO BE IT BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAD SOME VENGENCE TO TAKE OUT ON THAT DOG ESPECIALLY SINCE IT MADE FIRST TREE. I HUNTED SINCE I WAS 12. TOOK A BREAK TO CHASE WOMEN THEN START BACK AT 21. I COMP HUNT AKC,PKC,UKC AND READ MY RULES BEFORE EACH HUNT AND I ALSO DON'T JUDGE A MANS DOG BY WHAT I WOULDN'T FEED AT HOME THAT HIS BUISNESS NOT MINE TO PUNISH HIM FOR BRINGING ONE TO A HUNT. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU DONE RIGHT IF IT BARKED UP ANOTHER TREE BUT JUST FOR PUTTING ITS NOSE ON THE GROUND THAT ISN'T A RULE IF THE DOG GOES BACK AND TREES SATISFACTORLY. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR HUNTING I THOUGHT THE POST WAS FOR DISCUSSION NOT FOR ATTABOY'S BUT I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER ONE.

GOOD JOB YOU DONE REALLY WELL

Posted by nhcooner2 on 07-13-2010 06:42 PM:

7 Year old dog

WOW....Did not expect that at all, 7!!!!

Sounds like a great pleasure hound, not a UKC Nite Hunt hound.

Sometimes you just have to be honest with yourself. Your dog will hunt how you trained him to hunt, dont' expect miracles at events.

P.S. Redbone Chic

Sorry about the "right guy" commment, that was a bad assumption. Nice to see women getting involved in this thing we call a "Sport".

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Posted by Geminite on 07-13-2010 06:49 PM:

Re: True BUT....

quote:
Originally posted by nhcooner2
True with the 30 consecutive minutes, BUT if the dog does not hunt at drop#1 for 20 minutes, then at drop #2 the dog hunts , then at drop #3 the dog stands at your feet for 10 minutes he is not scratched. It was not 30 consecutive minutes due to drop #2.

That's more of what I was getting at, but thanks for the clarification JiM.

Posted by Geminite on 07-13-2010 06:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Sorry, but you are wrong about that one Geminite. If a dog has the 30 running and time is called, the 30 minutes resumes where it left off when the clock is restarted. Page 60 from the Advisor explains it.

I guess I should have bolded scorecard minutes as well. I was talking about when the dog sat there for 20 minutes and then took off and got treed when it heard the other dogs. This breaks the 30 minutes. Yes time out was called after the tree was scored and then it should have been restarted if the dog yet again failed to attempt to hunt.

Posted by DAVID ELMORE on 07-13-2010 06:56 PM:

judge

you done a fine job...its over dont secondguess yourself,,,,you are honest and know when youve been cheated and you know the rules to know when you have cheated ,,, i wouldnt worry about it and go judge another ,,,to me it sounds like you gave that dog plenty of chances ,,,take care ,,,,dave

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