UKC Forums - BAYER TREE and SHRUB SPRAY

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-- BAYER TREE and SHRUB SPRAY (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=359172)

Posted by oklared on 06-21-2010 02:23 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tarascon
That is not true. Not at all. The FDA would not allow a human medicine to be sold with ingredients in that that nobody knew what they were. Would not happen. The same is not so for insecticides. The "inert ingredients" on the list could be anything and it's ok. Some inert ingredients are more toxic than the active ingredients.

YES THE FDA PROTECTS US THAT IS WHY WE HAVE RECALLS AFTER WE USE STUFF, AND THAT IS WHY THE STUFF YOU TAKE YOU PROBABLY WOULDNT TAKE IF YOU LOOKED THEM UP. DOGS ARE NOT PEOPLE AND THEY ARE A WHOLE DEFFERENT SUBJECT. THEY CAN DRINK WATER THAT WOULD KILL YOU AND I AND EAT STUFF THAT WOULD KILL US.

Posted by Tarascon on 06-21-2010 02:43 PM:

I do look them up. I am not taking any medications and do not intend to unless I need to do it to live.

You'd be surprised how close the practice of vet medicine and human medicine are. Lots of times vet medicine is ahead of human medicine. Many of the drugs are the same. Most of the illnesses are the same.

The thing is that there ARE regulations for what goes into a drug and there ARE NOT regulations for the non-active ingredients in an insecticide. The non-active ingredients help the product to work better and they are considered "secret" by the manufacturer.

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Posted by l.lyle on 06-21-2010 09:47 PM:

That's funny! I take a dose of rat poison every day called Warfarin Sodium. It is a great rat poison until the second generation rats learned that if they ate the feces of a rat that got enough of a dose to kill, that feces would counteract the poison. I take a little dose to keep my blood thin to avoid a clot. If I took too much though I would go to the doctor. I just couldn't use the rat's cure.

Why are the inert or "other" ingredients such a concern to you? We don't even know the mode of action of the Active ingredients other than they kill fleas.

Posted by Tarascon on 06-22-2010 01:22 AM:

The active ingredient in Advantage and Tree and Shrub is a neurotoxin. It works on the nervous system of the insects and kills them.

The inert ingredients make the active ingredient easier to apply, or make it stick on better, stuff like that. And nobody but Bayer knows what those ingredients are. Since one is for animals and one is for plants and the active ingredient is in the two products in different amounts, very likely the inert ingredients are not the same in both of them.

Why not call Bayer Crop Science and ask what to do about your dog that accidently got Tree and Shrub sprayed on it and see what they say?

Posted by oklared on 06-22-2010 01:34 AM:

I would say if it is safe to put on veg, nut trees etc that are used for human consumption it is probably safe to put on your dog.Yes a lot of the meds are the same, but what deseases do you get from your dog except rabies?
P.S. The reasone they make Advantage for dogs is the price. It is like Spot -on for horses is about half the price as for dogs but is the exact same. Do you know the inert. ingreed. in Advantage? I dont think it says but i could be wrong. Its all about money. I just paid 9.00 for 14 antibiotic pills for my dog, the exact same pill for me at WallMart would have been 4.00, go figuere. I pay 8.95 for Safegaurd horse wormer(Panacure) same thing labled for a dog will cost 2 to 3 times that amount, and the list goes on and on. Dawn dishwashing soap and vinigar put on your dog will get rid of flees but niether are labled for dogs nor list the ingreedents, it dont last long or id use it more.

Posted by Tarascon on 06-22-2010 01:40 AM:

A dog is not a vegetable.

Let's see, just off the top of my head, leptospirosis, giardia, and brucellosis. None of which I'd want. Plus you could pick up tapeworms from a dog.

Want me to go on?

Posted by oklared on 06-22-2010 01:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tarascon
A dog is not a vegetable.

Let's see, just off the top of my head, leptospirosis, giardia, and brucellosis. None of which I'd want. Plus you could pick up tapeworms from a dog.

Want me to go on?

Yes I do and tell me of cases where people got those deseases. No a dog is not a vegetable but they are not a human either, if i can eat it then i dont think it will hurt a dogs skin or anyother part. Tapeworm is not a desease and people rarely get them and they dont have to come from a dog. Ive had dogs a lot of years and never cought a desease from a hound yet.

Posted by l.lyle on 06-22-2010 01:54 AM:

The sevin dust that you are not scared of is a neurotoxin and is a cholinesterase inhibitor' in the class of chemical Carbamate. It's also pruduced by Bayer but not invented by them. It been around since the late 50's.

Posted by Tarascon on 06-22-2010 02:09 AM:

Folks, I am not against putting Advantage on a dog or Sevin on my eggplants.

I buy Ivomec wormer for my guys for heartworm. I've bought quarts of pyrantal (strongid, Nemex, same thing) sold for treating pinworms in kids for my pups and horses. I get the saving money part, I truly do. Been doing that for years. But all of these drugs are for mammals, yes, it's off label, but they are all for mammals, not plants.

I just think it is freakin insane to use an insecticide spray developed for plants on an animal just to save money, because you have no idea what else is in it besides the active ingredient being the same as the Advantage. It's formulated for plants, not animals. It's a big risk to take. If you want to do it, have at it.

I also am thinking that the "use it on vegetables must be ok on dogs" argument doesn't amount to much, because I imagine you probably wash any vegetable before you eat it. I sure do, and like I said, I don't put on the Sevin and then harvest the stuff the next day.

Posted by l.lyle on 06-22-2010 02:30 AM:

Once more, it was not developed for plants or animal or cracks and crevices nor aquatic waterbugs. It's the way the exact same thing got labeled. You're right' I don't think a 4-7-4 fertilizer will help a dog but probably me and you sling 10-10-10 by hand.

Posted by oklared on 06-22-2010 03:55 AM:

Brucellosis, rare but most do not result in human illness, pet owners are not at risk, it is blood, semen, or placenta of the dog that carries it. There is a human form that is defferent from canine. I did have time to look up the other to but i will. This came from data from a scientific sight.

Posted by l.lyle on 06-22-2010 05:52 AM:

Have you never used Sevin Dust in the dog house and runs for fleas? Probly found out you might as well be feeding them flour. Any ways people try to follow the instructions and not dust the dog but they make sure they throw a little extra in the doghouse so he can dust himself, that is, if he wants to.

Posted by john nannemann on 06-22-2010 01:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by l.lyle
The sevin dust that you are not scared of is a neurotoxin and is a cholinesterase inhibitor' in the class of chemical Carbamate. It's also pruduced by Bayer but not invented by them. It been around since the late 50's.

back when i first graduated college i took a job spraying trees for chemlawn. i had to take a cholinesterase inhibitor blood test every two weeks. the ONLY time i had it elevate and have to quit spraying for a few days was spring and fall spraying tent caterpillars and web worms. this was while spraying diazinon, dursban, and acephate and a way more regular basis. yet people for years used sevin as if it was "flour". sevin is pretty crappy on fleas anyway- it works great on worms(chewing insects), but since it needs to be ingested, it is pretty useless on fleas(biting). most any permethriod is way better for fleas.

Posted by ibrobiinhood on 06-30-2014 06:00 PM:

One is only thinking non-active ingredients are found only in tree and shrub and not found in advantage. One thing is for certain, the new bayer has fertlizer in it. Has enough "trials" been performed to make sure it doesn't hurt dogs. To me this is where the question lies.

Posted by ibrobiinhood on 06-30-2014 06:00 PM:

Posted by rmcmillan on 07-01-2014 11:42 AM:

I USE PREMETHIAN 10 FROM TSC. WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF IT?

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