UKC Forums - Too close?

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Too close? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=356521)

Posted by josh on 06-02-2010 06:57 PM:

I have never seen anoyones breeding program that could withstand much scrutiny at all.

Success can be measured in many ways, One mans coondog is another mans cull.

Posted by MRC on 06-02-2010 07:05 PM:

Here's the cross that makes me think......

---SID
RED
---SUSIE

PUPPY

---SID Jr
Female
---Susie

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 06-02-2010 07:07 PM:

If you really want to know if a cross is too close, the best thing you could do is spend a little money on breeding software. That way you can calculate the inbreeding coefficent on potential crosses.

History has shown us providing you have good breed stock (few if any nasty recessive traits) can be successful if the inbreeding coefficient is maintain at or below 20%.

If you don't want to spend the money the next easiest thing is use relationship coefficients and target keeping each individual dog at less than 50% contribution.

Example Autumn's 1st cross: Dance has a 25% + 12.5% contribution for a total of 32.5%; Spice would be 25% +25% for a 50% total.

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Posted by MRC on 06-02-2010 07:26 PM:

The cross I was talking about clocks in at 23% COI.....

Posted by Autumn Clements on 06-02-2010 07:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MRC
Here's the cross that makes me think......

---SID
RED
---SUSIE

PUPPY

---SID Jr
Female
---Susie

thats the same idea as the first cross I posted, sires being father & son both bred to the same dam

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Posted by Christy on 06-02-2010 07:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MRC
Here's the cross that makes me think......

---SID
RED
---SUSIE

PUPPY

---SID Jr
Female
---Susie

I AGREE

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Posted by HOBO on 06-02-2010 08:37 PM:

The problem with Repeat crosses is MOST not all but MOST of the people that get the pups have heard how GREAT the first litter was and think they don't have to put the time into the next cross. Then when the pup sits in the pen for a year or longer and they decide to take out SUPER PUP and it doesn't do anything they say repeat crosses NEVER work.

I like breedong Uncle/Neice Aunt/Nephew and Cousins.

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Posted by Justin Smith on 06-02-2010 09:35 PM:

YOu never know what's too close until it's too late .... part of being a breeder is pushing the envelope and experimenting ... part of being a successful breeder is being responsible when something backfires.

Posted by Daniel Evans on 06-02-2010 10:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MRC
Here's the cross that makes me think......

---SID
RED
---SUSIE

PUPPY

---SID Jr
Female
---Susie

I'd like to see what that one would produce.

thanks for all the replies.

Posted by Sheriff Andy on 06-03-2010 03:52 AM:

what about
what about .......
---------- sire
------sire 2
---------- dam

---pups

---------sire 2
---female
---------dam 2

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Posted by Autumn Clements on 06-05-2010 04:34 PM:

btt

nobody made tight crosses like these before ??

Posted by nyyoter on 06-05-2010 06:12 PM:

If people never heard of doing this they don't know how to breed dogs. I have done it many times and know of people who have also done it for years. If you have traits you like in the dogs that is the only way to try and keep them. NO it is not to close.

Posted by Autumn Clements on 06-05-2010 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nyyoter
If people never heard of doing this they don't know how to breed dogs. I have done it many times and know of people who have also done it for years. If you have traits you like in the dogs that is the only way to try and keep them. NO it is not to close.

if your answering my question then it isn't really wether is too close or not i'm curious how this tight of cross has turned out

Posted by Rip on 06-05-2010 06:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
The problem with Repeat crosses is MOST not all but MOST of the people that get the pups have heard how GREAT the first litter was and think they don't have to put the time into the next cross. Then when the pup sits in the pen for a year or longer and they decide to take out SUPER PUP and it doesn't do anything they say repeat crosses NEVER work.

I like breedong Uncle/Neice Aunt/Nephew and Cousins.

quote:
Originally posted by Justin Smith
YOu never know what's too close until it's too late .... part of being a breeder is pushing the envelope and experimenting ... part of being a successful breeder is being responsible when something backfires.

Well I have to agree with both of these. The repeat cross may or may not work out because you still have hundreds of thousands of genes to line up, BUT it works out at a higher percentage than just any old cross. In other words it will be more consistant most of the time. HOBO had a key to the problem of people thinking the second cross doesn't work as good, people either get all excited about them and start hunting them when they should be playing with them and get burnt out on them before they are old enough to start, or they think they will turn out automatically and don't put the time in them they should.

Justin is right as well. You have to be responsible. That has several meanings but it also means not breeding a sub standard animal in hopes to "cover up" a bad trait just because it is handy, and knowing your history/traits of the family. It also means performing an HONEST evaluation before you decide to repeat crosses, not just because they sold good or whatever. Then there is the other responsibility of keeping non desirable things out of the gene poole. This can be accomplished numerous ways, but it needs to be done.

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Posted by psiskjr on 06-05-2010 09:00 PM:

The only cross I dont use is brother/sister. Other than that all things are fair game. My dogs are so linebred that if I make a cousin cross I feel like it is a total out cross, LOL.

I have seen crosses that were 75% outstanding dogs the first time and all mediocre the second time also.

psiskjr

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