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-- How would you define "purebred"? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=355761)

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Originally posted by Autumn Clements
the ears don't quite fit the breed either

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HEY YALL

LETS BE REAL CAREFUL THAT ITS NOT OUR FOOLISH PRIDE THAT MAKES US ALL WANT PUREBRED HOUNDS. PRIDE IS A SIN THAT WILL ALWAYS DRAG US DOWN. WHEN I GREW UP [IM NOT THAT OLD 44] MOST OF THE DOGS IN THESE BLUE RIDGE MTS. WERE CROSSBRED[OR GRADE] AND THEY STILL TREED A PILE OF COONS. AND USUALLY AT THE HUNTS THEY HAD THE HIGH SCORE, BUT COULD NOT WIN BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT REG. THE LAST TIME I CHECKED A SET OF PAPERS NEVER TREED A COON. ANYWAY LETS BE HONEST, SELLIN PUPS IS THE ONLY REASON FOR PAPERS, PLUS I KNOW UKC HAS TO HAVE RULES TO RUN THE COMPANY. I GUESS ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS A COONDOG IS A COONDOG EVEN IF IT AINT PUREBRED, LOOK AT RUSS'S LIL RED. NUFF SAID. GOD BLESS YALL ALL.

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Re: How would you define "purebred"?

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Originally posted by JiM
With all the discussion about purebreds and what they are, I'm just curious how we define a purebred coonhound. I know some always make the statement that none of them are pure until you get back to the wolf but that doesn't really have any practical value. So what does it take to make you feel a dog deserves "purebred" status?
For me, I like to keep things reasonably simple. UKC uses 3 generations to define "PR" Purple Ribbon status. All the dogs in the 3 generation pedigree must be PR dogs. If a dog is UKC registered as a single registered dog, that dogs progeny cannot be PR registered until the single registered dog is back to the 4th generation. That is simple to define and works for me. So I simply define a purebred as any dog that is PR registered. Others may rather choose 6 or 7 generations of known breeding within the breed. Still others may want to go all the way back to the beginnings of the breed although that requires way too much research to suit me. I think we can each define it however we wish. How would you define "purebred"?

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Re: Re: How would you define "purebred"?

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Originally posted by blueticking: it
i have seen old purple papers .was yellow single reg.
inbreed was what color.

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Bill i know one thing you got a coondog there them coons done shredded his ears.

if a dog can strike a coon trail the coon to the tree and tree the coon and i can look at the coon and do that over and over again, then thats purebred enough for me. purebred coondog the rest is just a color and papers are just that paper with ink on them.

Re: How would you define "purebred"?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JiM
[B]
All the dogs in the 3 generation pedigree must be PR dogs. If a dog is UKC registered as a single registered dog, that dogs progeny cannot be PR registered until the single registered dog is back to the 4th generation. That is simple to define and works for me.
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The 4th generation would be 1/16 "something else". I also believe by then you could tell if they were "true to type" and be worth breeding if they were, in some trait, superior.

Your definition works for me as well.

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Originally posted by tx slick tree
Bill i know one thing you got a coondog there them coons done shredded his ears.

if a dog can strike a coon trail the coon to the tree and tree the coon and i can look at the coon and do that over and over again, then thats purebred enough for me. purebred coondog the rest is just a color and papers are just that paper with ink on them.

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william(wildbill)saylor
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purebred

So wildbill , How did you know the sire was house/ bozo and the female was whatever? Oh thats right, Papers,How do you get papers, Oh thats right breed registry, And the breed registry is , The purebred people. If you want to hunt grade hounds go to the grade hound forums. I am pretty sure this forum is made possible by the purebred people .I also hunt grade hounds , but wish I had papers so I knew where they came from.For all I know they are House /Bozo and whatever

I think a lot of folks are missing what the benefits to known breedings and pedigrees are. They are not just the names and titles of the dogs your pup came from. A pedigree can tell you a lot about how your pup might turn out if you know the lines and do your research.

If you know the dog's ancestors and how they hunted or conformed to the standard, you are much more able to estimate how the litter you bred turns out. The closer you breed, the more specific traits come out in a line.

If I keep crossing Silvertone dogs to Silvertone dogs to Silvertone dogs, I am going to have a pretty good idea of what my pups are going to be like as adults even when they are very young. I know my lines, and I know if a particular litter I bred is most likely to be chop-mouthed dogs, are more than likely going to have very small light-framed females, is very likely to be close- to medium-distance hunters, etc.

Knowing "lines" can help you determine whether or not the pup you buy is going to be what you want as a mature dog... if you don't want a choppy-mouthed, small female who hunts only a few hundred yards, then my pup is likely not for you. But if you are maybe an older person or a child who needs a small dog that is easy to handle, and only have small areas to hunt, thus need a closer-hunting dog, you will more than likely be pleased with a pup fom my litter. This is a purely hypothetical example, btw...

Now, to cover my butt, of course everyone knows there are always exceptions...

But in my opinion, some people need to look into line-breeding a little more and stop outcrossing so much, if you have something you really like... I think we could have much more predictable hounds this way.

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Re: purebred

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Originally posted by Diggerman
So wildbill , How did you know the sire was house/ bozo and the female was whatever? Oh thats right, Papers,How do you get papers, Oh thats right breed registry, And the breed registry is , The purebred people. If you want to hunt grade hounds go to the grade hound forums. I am pretty sure this forum is made possible by the purebred people .I also hunt grade hounds , but wish I had papers so I knew where they came from.For all I know they are House /Bozo and whatever

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paper

I hear ya wildbill, but how many times have you heard this, (unca Bill) " I just bred old jake to molly. (Unca Joe) molly out of old slim right?( unca Bill) No , cantja member, she outa old spot.( unca joe) Bull, slims outa old spot!!. Then comes unca dave with a 6 gen ped and neither unca bill or unca joe are right. I quess for 20.00 bucks I'll let somebody else keep my records. Untill somebody does it better, I guess its UKC. I am assumeing purebred means registered. If your purebred you need verification right?

Re: paper

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Originally posted by Diggerman
I hear ya wildbill, but how many times have you heard this, (unca Bill) " I just bred old jake to molly. (Unca Joe) molly out of old slim right?( unca Bill) No , cantja member, she outa old spot.( unca joe) Bull, slims outa old spot!!. Then comes unca dave with a 6 gen ped and neither unca bill or unca joe are right. I quess for 20.00 bucks I'll let somebody else keep my records. Untill somebody does it better, I guess its UKC. I am assumeing purebred means registered. If your purebred you need verification right?

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Re: Re: paper

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Originally posted by oklared
DNA= PURE BRED

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Re: paper

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Originally posted by Diggerman
I hear ya wildbill, but how many times have you heard this, (unca Bill) " I just bred old jake to molly. (Unca Joe) molly out of old slim right?( unca Bill) No , cantja member, she outa old spot.( unca joe) Bull, slims outa old spot!!. Then comes unca dave with a 6 gen ped and neither unca bill or unca joe are right. I quess for 20.00 bucks I'll let somebody else keep my records. Untill somebody does it better, I guess its UKC. I am assumeing purebred means registered. If your purebred you need verification right?

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DUAL GR. RIGHT HERE IN OKLA. THAT IS GR.NT.GR.CH. WALKER FEMALE AND IS VERY TUFF 2nd GENERATION OR HER GRAND MOMMA ON HER PED. SHOWS 1/2 BLUE TIC, mmmmm

Re: Re: paper

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Originally posted by oklared
DNA= PURE BRED

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It Requires a great deal of Money to produce DNA that goes beyond Parentage !! You would be looking at $1,000 per Dog Tested easy .. Its available if you have the $$$$$

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maybe i.e O.J or is that case of more money

I think this "purebred" thing is something we can get "hungup" on in a lot of different ways. I've owned a ton of hounds in a lot of colors that could sure tree a coon, and I've hunted with a lot of hounds in a lot of different colors that could tree a coon. My premis is: I think these hounds are all the same thing; they're just different colors. When I was young a litter of grade pups would contain two bluetics, two black&tans, two redbones and two walkers. The first NTCH hound I ever had anything to do with I paid 50 cents for at weaning age; we started him and sold him. A couple years later he was in Indiana and advertised at stud. What we've done is take a breed, hounds, and segragate them into colors and selectively breed them in a direction. The background for these "purebred" hounds were from the same grade litters mentioned above. Now, I've seen breeders that were "breed blind"; I've seen breeders that were "kennel blind", and I'm beginning to see breeders that are "all grand" blind. As hunters, we want hounds that can consistantly tree coon, as competition hunters we want hounds that can consistantly tree coon and fit the score card. Hopefully, the two will intertwine. I feel that when a breeder limits himself to a certain "gene pool", he also hinders himself as a breeder. I feel that one of the reasons the Walkers advanced was the use of single registered dogs; both Nance and House built dynasties off of single registered dogs. My point is this: don't be so "hungup" on "purebred" that it limits your ability to produce and hunt quality hounds. Just some of my thoughts. Tom

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Ok, that is all fine but that was never the question. It was not what defines a coondog or are single registered dogs good, bad or whatever. The question was how would you personally choose to define "purebred"?
It appears that quite a few really have no interest in defineing the purebred and that is ok too.

Jim i suppose a simple deffinition would be any dog registered with a kennel club as an individual breed of dog could be considered purebred simply because there is a record of the dogs ancesters.
You could have a purebred crossbred. HMMMMMM

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

To me PUREBRED means line breeding. I think anytime you make an out cross you lose your purebred line. As I see it anytime you out cross you have lost your genetic line. Now sometimes this is a good thing as a line can get stagnate and with the right out cross you can improve the line, but then the line isn't pure anymore for a few generations. Most of your big game hunters keep a line pure (may not be reg. but same line of dogs for years.) Their dogs may not even be of the same breed to start. Most can show you generations of breeding of their dogs. Many people on here won't agree with my definition of purebred, but the question was "what is your definition"

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quote:

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Originally posted by oklared
DUAL GR. RIGHT HERE IN OKLA. THAT IS GR.NT.GR.CH. WALKER FEMALE AND IS VERY TUFF 2nd GENERATION OR HER GRAND MOMMA ON HER PED. SHOWS 1/2 BLUE TIC, mmmmm

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So what if they were to DNA both purebred parents and a funny colored pup came from them? Then what does ukc do?

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Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by brady8687
Like 2 "PR" Red bones throwin Black n Tan?
Single Reg. right?

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Michael Ghorley