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-- Mean Dog???? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=352831)

I see both sides of the argument. It ended up that Zam stayed in the box and dog 3 warmed their feet the rest of the night, while dog 2 boo hooed the rest of the time away. In the end it didn't matter, took him out last night and he took a first strike and tree on the other 4 dogs and then a second strike, first tree on the next one. No fighting or growling for him and he was as happy as a pig in slop to be able to hunt again.

Whether dog 3 got wrote up, along with Zam or not, he will continue to cause trouble in nite hunts because of his actions at the tree. This is not the first time this has happened with dog 3, but you can dang sure bet, it will be the last time it happens with dog 3 and Zam.

Nite hunts are fun, but not worth the aggravation of the actions of other dogs you have no control over, doing something to your dog and put him in a bad situation.

Zam is not a mean dog in any means and we plan to keep it that way. I have no doubt that dog 3 will again stir the pot and the samething will happen with another dog in another hunt somewhere down the road.

All I can say is come on over for a hunt and see Zam in action and then judge for yourself if he is a 'gator' or not. Zam has hunted side by side a dog that was wrote up 2 times for fighting and there was never a growl or fight between the 2 of them. He has had dogs tap dancing on his head and has been body slammed away from trees and he just goes back in and trees. Why he chose this time to flop the dog, I have no idea. He is a dog and dogs do dumb things just like people do. As stated earlier, maybe they had communication issues when dog 3 came into the tree that no one knew about and Zam read a threat, who knows, I still can't read dog talk even after 22 yrs. of being involved with them. Body lanuage yes, talk, no.

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

Patsy Cline...CRAZY! Rip

RIP....put your bump cap on, you hit your head a few too many times in the woods. ARE YOU NUTS!

There are 3 dogs in the cast, no scratch that....2 good dogs treeing a coon in this cast, they are all JACKED up because they know what might happen...gun shot and a coon to play with. This is the most intense time for a hound. If a dog is usually hunted alone, and there is never any competition at the tree for the coon, then the intensity is even greater for that dog at this time.

THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR A DOG TO JUMP ON ANOTHER DOGS BACK INTENTIONALLY, short of the dog being a 10 month old pup.

Peeing on a tree branch in front of another dog while standing really tall with a stiff tail...is this aggressive behavior or would you say the dog is just taking a leak?

3rd dog is the aggressor....give the guy the option to withdraw his dog? What.....are these guys buddies?

EnglishBabe.....I agree with you!!! I stopped putting my dog in hunts after he became Nite Champion, the first two Nite Champion casts were full of gators. I didn't want my dog to learn this crap.

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FC NH

GRFCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' CHASES JUNKYARD BLUE GOOSE

If you gotta mean one keep it home plan an simple!! dont quite understand this one ,dont really know whos wrong.
Keep the mean ones home

......

Many moons ago I signed the sc card ,,,ripped it up & went home........CHEAT me once shame on you CHEAT me twice shame on ME

capt. agricutral

sent u a pm

Ok, so I decided to get a second take on this situation and called the guy who had dog 2. This is how it went down. Zam was holding second strike and second tree, he couldn't hear his dog due to the wind and the fact that she doesn't have a loud mouth, so he threw her in for 3rd tree and they walked in. As they were walking in, his dog, #3, came up from behind him and he took a minus because she wasn't treed. He said Zam was treed on a fairly large Hemlock and dog 3 was treed about 15 ft. away on a smaller Hemlock. As they got up to the tree, dog 3 left his tree, came into Zam, gave 2 barks and jumped straight onto Zam's back, Zam turn his head, barked and growled and went back to treeing. Dog 3 then started to tree on the same tree. Dog 3 also lost his points because he left his tree. Dog owner 2 was just waiting for dog owner 3 to say write Zam up for fighting, because dog owner 2 felt that dog 3 started it. It was never a down and dirty, out and out fight, more of a growl and bark type thing. Dog owner 2 stated that Zam had NEVER been aggressive in all his years of hunting with him and dog owner 3, maybe guessing his dog was to blame, said not to write him up. Frank decided he didn't need the crap and withdrew Zam and let the other 2 dogs hunt together. Frank was willing to write Zam up, because he felt sure it was a fluke or whatever, but dog owner 3 said No! So now I feel better hearing a different side of a simular story. Zam was standing with his front feet on the tree, dog 3 came into him, gave 2 barks and jumped on him, sounds to me like Zam just acted out of instinct, realized it was another dog and went back to treeing. Dog owner 2 said if dog owner 3 wanted Zam written up, he was going to mark it with a question mark and take it back to the HD to be resolved, because he felt that Zam was not being aggressive per say, but only reacting naturally to a situation.

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

Correct me if I am wrong but no matter what the other dogs do fall on, bawl in there face or what ever. The first one to bite is the agressor and if it is seen by the majority of the cast. The one that takes the first bite is scratched and the rest goes on hunting....
The one that gets scratched is allso the only one that gets written up................

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Jacking the tree

Sounds like dog 3 was jacking the tree. Jacking the tree does promote dog fights, even with the most tolerant dogs because they do not want to be jumped on.....too bad Zam should have been scratched and written up.

Sorry.

I had to stop hunting my 10 month old bluetick with a walker that jacked the tree. She would land on him and it scared him from wanting to tree with the other dogs.....now he is ultra independent....I guess it all worked out for the best.

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FC NH

GRFCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' CHASES JUNKYARD BLUE GOOSE

There was no biting, only barking and growling. I say BOTH dogs should have been written up. Dog 3 for starting it and Zam for growling and barking at him. Either way, BOTH dogs were in the wrong!

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American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

As usual , the biggest thing wrong with this thread is the judge/handler.
Looks like he didn't know all the rules and didn't correctly apply the ones he did know.

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by EnglishBabe
There was no biting, only barking and growling. I say BOTH dogs should have been written up. Dog 3 for starting it and Zam for growling and barking at him. Either way, BOTH dogs were in the wrong!

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

So who are you saying the aggressor is?

I though the other dog just landed on him, dogs do bump each other at trees.

I believe it is Zam for "growling and barking at him", sounds like aggressive behavior to me. In dog language it probably meant "knock it off idiot". If Zam did that to a dog that was a little more high strung, there would have been a throw down.

It's a tough situation when you realize you own a DOG, they are all capable of it, you just don't know what will set them off.

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FC NH

GRFCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' CHASES JUNKYARD BLUE GOOSE

Exact words, Zam turned around and lit into him. He is scratched and the others go on hunting. Zam gets written up when they get in. Can't light into dogs just for falling on you.........

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Okie Dawg.....Agreed!

__________________
FC NH

GRFCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' CHASES JUNKYARD BLUE GOOSE

Okie Dawg

i'm still not sure exactly what happened. First post says dog went to tree and jumped on Zam. Dog does not have to bite Zam. If he is interfering with Zam treeing through aggressive behavior he is scratched and Zam in ok even if he fought back. If the dog only fell on him or something like that and did not have both interference and aggressive behavior then Zam would be scratched. This is what i always thought.

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Bob Turnbow 931-212-0069

This is exactly how rules get bent and twisted because people cant or wont apply them to their own dog.

Its very simple, a dog interfering with another dog by aggresive behavior is scratched.

Is falling on another dog starting a fight?..... Maybe.... But it sure isnt agressive behavior.

Growling and grabbing is agressive and if it affects the other dogs ability to tree he meets the criteria for a SFF.

I got Frank's side first, that is the earlier posts. Got the story from dog owner 2 today, read that one above. Dog 3 LEFT his tree about 15 ft. away as they were walking into the tree Zam was on, gave 2 barks and jumped onto Zam's back, who in turn growled and barked at the dog that landed on his back and then went back to treeing. NO BITING or anything that would cause harm to the other dog, just left him know that jumping on his back like that was not something he liked. There was no jacking the tree, Zam was the only dog on the tree, til dog 3 left his tree and came in and jumped on him. Then Zam and dog 3 both treed on the same tree. To me, barking and jumping onto another dog that is treeing like that is also showing aggression.

This is why I called dog owner 2 and talked to him, I wanted the story from another's point of view. Zam didn't even come off the tree, he barked and growled at dog 3 for a few seconds, like it surprised him and then went back to treeing.

Dog 3 was aggressive for jumping on his back and barking at him and Zam was aggressive for barking and growling at him. BOTH dogs needed to be scratched and written up, but weren't. So that is it in a nut shell

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

quote:

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Originally posted by EnglishBabe
I got Frank's side first, that is the earlier posts. Got the story from dog owner 2 today, read that one above. Dog 3 LEFT his tree about 15 ft. away as they were walking into the tree Zam was on, gave 2 barks and jumped onto Zam's back, who in turn growled and barked at the dog that landed on his back and then went back to treeing. NO BITING or anything that would cause harm to the other dog, just left him know that jumping on his back like that was not something he liked. There was no jacking the tree, Zam was the only dog on the tree, til dog 3 left his tree and came in and jumped on him. Then Zam and dog 3 both treed on the same tree. To me, barking and jumping onto another dog that is treeing like that is also showing aggression.

This is why I called dog owner 2 and talked to him, I wanted the story from another's point of view. Zam didn't even come off the tree, he barked and growled at dog 3 for a few seconds, like it surprised him and then went back to treeing.

Dog 3 was aggressive for jumping on his back and barking at him and Zam was aggressive for barking and growling at him. BOTH dogs needed to be scratched and written up, but weren't. So that is it in a nut shell

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__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

What I told you is what was told to me by dog owner 3, who had nothing to win or lose by telling me what happened. I just wanted to hear his side of the story to decide for myself what had happened. It happen in plain sight of all 3 guys on the cast, although I would still say they should of both been scratched.

What is funny is, no one once has said anything about dog 3 never leaving their feet the rest of the night. He should have been scratched for a non-hunting dog. Both Frank and dog owner 2 said he never got out of light range and this is a pattern for this dog. I just wonder how he ever made nitech?

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

It would depend on how much time was left in the hunt as to weather dog 3 would get scratched. It wasn't discused becouse it has all been about agression and he wasn't biteing any cast members........LOL..........A lot of times it isn't smart to scratch one for that becouse they go put them in the box. If it bawls in the box and your dog isn't use to that it might go to it. I think that is why a lot of guys don't care. As for how it got to be nite ch. you got me............I will scratch one for not hunting but wouldn't care if they put it in the box or not. Mine won't pay any attention to one bauling in the box becouse I let them when I hunt by my self so they get use to it............

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Back in march I got wrote up for fighting my dog went in got treed had first tree other dog went in treeing dog. 3 went. In and started treeing my dog left the tree. He never leaves the tree he's out in the field trailin around goes back into tree the one female ran away from the tree my male and another male were walking around the tree growling and we both got scratched don't know what happen at the tree but something ran my dog off the tree and nothing runs my dog off the tree. You never know what happens. Oh and 4th dog was no where to be found owner of 4th dog started yelling and screaming he wasn't hunting with no gator dogs and what were pretty sure happen is dog 3 was treeing probably bit my dog not on purpose ear or something and my dog left and came back and wasn't leaving this time. No fight broke out or anything. So dog 3 in your case should have been scratched right then and there and Zam should have stayed in the cast instead of being withdrew and dog 3 scratched

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Home of
Nite champ skuna river aftershock(Sadie)
Nite champ vaughns tree thumping blaze I (one win towards grand)
Sorrells screamin fred

Very true about the bawling in the box, very true. I hate it when you have 1 in the box and all the others keep going to it to see what the dog 'has'! I trip over pups a lot the hang at your feet at first, so what is any different, except this was a nitech. The pup is just learning, this is spose to be a coon treeing machine, so to speak.

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

boonetreecoon

Maybe, but it is too late to change anything. Now Frank is thinking he 'might' take Zam back into a nite hunt again. Oh sure, he will hunt him in the nite hunts, but I am doing the leg work.....well sort a, through out the week. When I can go into a tree with 4 male dogs and a female jumping all over themselves and find the coon, man o man, that is worth all the huffin' and puffin' and sore aching body I have the next morning. We have put Zam and another male in the same side of the box to go hunting, he has been tap danced on by other dogs and even run off a tree by another dog, that puppy was 1 mean dog, and he has never shown any type of aggression towards another dog. Also, I had used him for stud earlier in the week, whether that had anything to do with it or not, I'm not sure. Didn't seem to bother him much when I hunted him Sunday and Monday night with the other males.

__________________
American Leopard Hound
FNL Hanselman's Blu Pixie Dust

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EnglishBabe
boonetreecoon

Maybe, but it is too late to change anything. Now Frank is thinking he 'might' take Zam back into a nite hunt again. Oh sure, he will hunt him in the nite hunts, but I am doing the leg work.....well sort a, through out the week. When I can go into a tree with 4 male dogs and a female jumping all over themselves and find the coon, man o man, that is worth all the huffin' and puffin' and sore aching body I have the next morning. We have put Zam and another male in the same side of the box to go hunting, he has been tap danced on by other dogs and even run off a tree by another dog, that puppy was 1 mean dog, and he has never shown any type of aggression towards another dog. Also, I had used him for stud earlier in the week, whether that had anything to do with it or not, I'm not sure. Didn't seem to bother him much when I hunted him Sunday and Monday night with the other males. [/QUO


Well he did get jumped on he defended himself. I'm only gonna hit you so much before your gonna hit me back.

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Home of
Nite champ skuna river aftershock(Sadie)
Nite champ vaughns tree thumping blaze I (one win towards grand)
Sorrells screamin fred

quote:

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Originally posted by EnglishBabe

What is funny is, no one once has said anything about dog 3 never leaving their feet the rest of the night. He should have been scratched for a non-hunting dog. Both Frank and dog owner 2 said he never got out of light range and this is a pattern for this dog. I just wonder how he ever made nitech?

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.