UKC Forums - todd, Allen , please read, need a rule change, or explanation

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-- todd, Allen , please read, need a rule change, or explanation (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=343435)

Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 03-23-2010 06:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigdwebster
I guess im missing something. I have a at 225+ b with 25+ c with 50+ and d with 150+. C cant recast until d's tree is scored because c was scored out of order and apparently b opted to not recast until after scoring c's tree. If this was the end of the cast a wins with 225+ and d is 2nd.

Your right on your scoring. I don't understand why they walked a minute and recast dog B and then started the five on dog C. Dog D should have been scored next and then back to dog C. Sounds like a kinda messed up scoring scenerio but you never know what the reasoning was. Score dogs in order they were treed.

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Posted by bigdwebster on 03-23-2010 06:29 PM:

The way I read it they started the five when he treed and by the time they scored b's tree the five was up. But dog b still has the option to recast but apparently didnt. Im not positive but I think if handler of dog d agrees they can score dog c's tree out of order he just cant be recast until dog d's tree is scored. But he said they cut dog b and c off of c's tree. Dog b could recast but c shouldnt have been able too.

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Posted by Casey_Lee on 03-23-2010 06:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Every single time a dog is struck in on the card, that dogs strike could concievable be under the one hour part of rule 7. I bet the one hour part of that rule has never been used and never will. UKC hunters can't even grasp the concept of running a countdown on the tree. You think they will ever run a 1 hour countdown on every dog that strikes a track? Basicly impossible.

I agree it would need tweaking a little, but I like the idea of it.

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Posted by terry coulter on 03-23-2010 07:27 PM:

He treed the dog when we started shining my tree the five was started then, we shined the tree walked a minute turned loose then is five was almost up we scored out of order because he was so close. I did start the five right away.

Posted by Dbradbury3 on 03-23-2010 07:49 PM:

we scored it right terry we were practically on top of the dog, it would have been a waste of time to not score him quick,

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Posted by on 03-23-2010 08:38 PM:

Dog D got hosed on that out of order scoring of the trees. Why? Because all the time you spent scoring dog C was time that dog D should have been loose and competeing for another scoring opportunity. Instead, dog D was stuck tied to a tree while a dog treed behind him is being scored. And then to make matters worse, you recast dog C while dog D is STILL on the leash. If I was the handler on dog D, we would have had a major problem.

Posted by bigdwebster on 03-23-2010 08:57 PM:

originally posted by jim

Dog D got hosed on that out of order scoring of the trees. Why? Because all the time you spent scoring dog C was time that dog D should have been loose and competeing for another scoring opportunity. Instead, dog D was stuck tied to a tree while a dog treed behind him is being scored. And then to make matters worse, you recast dog C while dog D is STILL on the leash. If I was the handler on dog D, we would have had a major problem.

I agree 100% Jim. Me being a good sportsman would have let cast score dog c out of order in most situations depending on amount of time left in cast and where I was at as far as score but I dang sure aint gonna let them recast dog c before scoring my tree. I guess with the new recasting rule it is very hard to score out of order no matter how far you are from dogs treeing.

Posted by K. Singletary on 03-23-2010 09:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Every single time a dog is struck in on the card, that dogs strike could concievable be under the one hour part of rule 7. I bet the one hour part of that rule has never been used and never will. UKC hunters can't even grasp the concept of running a countdown on the tree. You think they will ever run a 1 hour countdown on every dog that strikes a track? Basicly impossible.

I agree, that would be crazy. You would basically have to write down the time every dog struck, every drop, to keep up with this. It would never work.

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Posted by TheBiggestLiar on 03-23-2010 10:23 PM:

Bet you won't be letting anyone score out of order again. Lesson learned. Why change the rules again? They will never be perfect and can only be changed so many times to appease whoever lost.

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Posted by Dbradbury3 on 03-23-2010 10:27 PM:

this was posted not to talk about scoring hounds out of order, it was posted so that something can be done about two hounds scoring 100 strike on one coon ever after two coons scored

Posted by TheBiggestLiar on 03-23-2010 10:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dbradbury3
this was posted not to talk about scoring hounds out of order, it was posted so that something can be done about two hounds scoring 100 strike on one coon ever after two coons scored

I thought it was to explain how you should have won but didn't (got hosed). My mistake for thinking otherwise.

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Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 03-23-2010 11:19 PM:

Simple solution........Keep the rule as is and if the dogs get struck back in and are on the same tree as dog holding original first strike, they go back down to 25, instead of getting 100, 75, and 50. If they tree on a different tree they stay at 100, 75, or 50. I think that is what he was getting at.

I say just cut it out all together and if your dog trees the most coons in two hours it will win.

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Posted by Matt Mays on 03-24-2010 12:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Dan, even though you may not have considered the dog holding first strike as "nonworking" it is in fact considered as such after two coons have been scored while that dog is holding said strike position. After the two coons were scored on Dog A, Rule 7 does in fact allow for all strike positions, including first currently being held by Dog A, to reopen. So in such a scenario you may have more than one dog holding first strike position at the same time.

Elvis is correct in that there is a Rules Change Proposal on the ballot in regards to Rule 7. Matter of fact there are two of them. You'll see them them in the April Issue of Coonhound Bloodlines.

My vote is to eliminate the "two coons" rule but stay with the one hour only when it comes to "nonworking". There I said it. Haha.

when is the correct time to start the one hour on a "non-working" dog? after the first coon is scored? i wouldn't think you could start it when first struck in because you don't know if he's working as part of the cast until later in the hunt.

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Posted by Matt Mays on 03-24-2010 12:20 AM:

never mind just looked it up and saw one hour of hunt time

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Posted by patches9452 on 03-24-2010 12:21 AM:

1 hr

starts when first struck by the time the hour is up you will know

Posted by jculler8 on 03-24-2010 12:36 AM:

2 COON SCORED

This is coming up A LOT in THICK coon areas. Very difficult to judge and deal with as the rules are currently written. Too many conflicting issues and things going on at once!

Dogs now are bred to get split through the country with the grease. Some of the rules that we are still using nowadays are for the packing type hounds!

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Posted by Matt Mays on 03-24-2010 12:40 AM:

Re: 1 hr

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
starts when first struck by the time the hour is up you will know

i would like to know how many keep time on this hour? the two coon is much easier to keep up with and i dont know if i've ever witnessed someone keeping time on the hour...

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 03-24-2010 12:51 AM:

Someone enlighten me.

Does UKC rules allow for the scoring of trees out of order, for convenience sake/or otherwise???

Where can I find this NEW rule on the UKC scorecard?

Posted by Rough Northern on 03-24-2010 01:07 AM:

I like the way it is

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC

My vote is to eliminate the "two coons" rule but stay with the one hour only when it comes to "nonworking". There I said it. Haha.

Well its a good thing I'm not a voting member. You score 2 coons with one dog on original set of strike pts; strike opens up to 100. Didnt realize it was that hard.

Posted by jculler8 on 03-24-2010 05:23 AM:

Re: I like the way it is

quote:
Originally posted by Rough Northern
Well its a good thing I'm not a voting member. You score 2 coons with one dog on original set of strike pts; strike opens up to 100. Didnt realize it was that hard.

Yes, I think people are under the impression that the dog must be "non-working" to scratch it. I think the rule has not been used as much since the recasting rule last year and now it is put into effect much more often. Before you could recast, it was no big deal to score trees out of order because dogs were leash locked no matter what. Now there's a little bit of a twist added thats allowing the dog that trees the most coon the fastest win!

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-24-2010 02:00 PM:

I rememeber one night at the Autumn Open in Canada where it happened that two dogs held their strike positions for over an hour. It was a windy, rainy night where Tex and Black Creek Doc struck in and scooted out of hearing early on in the hunt. Jeff Teague's Angel female was working closer so we stuck with what we could hear. She eventually treed and after recast struck back in for a hundred due to the hour having passed in accordance with Rule 7. That's the only time I can remember off the top of my head where it came into play where I was personally involved.

With the option to recast now, Rule 7 does in fact come into play more so than in the old days. And, in the old days when we still kept the time in and out blocks it was easier to keep up with the "hour" on dogs. I doubt most judges are keeping track of the time when dogs struck in.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-24-2010 03:03 PM:

maybe a typing change is all that is needed. one hours elapsed in overall hunt time, or maybe just two scored coons, and forget time altogether?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-24-2010 10:11 PM:

Dont none of yall remember the world hunt? I do and the 100 WAS NOT opened back up after 2 coon was scored...This the biggest hunt of the year with a non hunting judge or 3! I guess it is time to do away with it..

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Posted by on 03-24-2010 10:13 PM:

Dawg, I don't think we're suppose to talk about that. They executed the last thread that mentioned it.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 03-24-2010 10:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Mays
when is the correct time to start the one hour on a "non-working" dog? after the first coon is scored? i wouldn't think you could start it when first struck in because you don't know if he's working as part of the cast until later in the hunt.

Nobody wants dogs that work as a cast. They want independant dogs. So how is it going to work when they all go differant directions? Might as well start the time when you cast.

I say simplify, the one under the most coon, if a tie the one under the most coon fastest, if a tie hunt it off or shoot the ugly one so it don't happen again. LOL

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