UKC Forums - score this please

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- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- score this please (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=333810)

Posted by jculler8 on 02-26-2010 11:25 AM:

A GOOD judge that can distinguish dogs usually makes the correct ruling in this situation. If A moved and is out trailing, he should have been minused immediately! If you can hear them treed, you can hear them trailing!

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Posted by RCCBLUES on 02-26-2010 01:19 PM:

the question was dose dogs b @ c move up in tree points there strike points will remain the same . there tree points will move up to 125 apice for they are split trees. if coon is seen they get plus if not off game or slick they get minues tree and strike points minues. a split tree calls its self there no competion hunter going to go out on a limb and tree his dog septate from another dog if all the dogs are in the same area . reason is when you go to that tree and you have call your dog split it had better be by its self or you will be minues.that the reason thes handler just call there dogs tree and when they got there the trees call there self .the card should have look like this
A 125-
B125+
C125+

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Posted by Big Bawler on 02-26-2010 01:52 PM:

well thats how it has been done in the past but that is WRONG.
the dogs that were split DO NOT move up because the split was not obvious and we dont know what tree the trailing dog left from..

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Posted by gfults on 02-26-2010 03:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RCCBLUES
the question was dose dogs b @ c move up in tree points there strike points will remain the same . there tree points will move up to 125 apice for they are split trees. if coon is seen they get plus if not off game or slick they get minues tree and strike points minues. a split tree calls its self there no competion hunter going to go out on a limb and tree his dog septate from another dog if all the dogs are in the same area . reason is when you go to that tree and you have call your dog split it had better be by its self or you will be minues.that the reason thes handler just call there dogs tree and when they got there the trees call there self .the card should have look like this
A 125-
B125+
C125+

WRONG! Dog A gets 125- because he left the tree. Dog B gets 75+ because it treed 2nd and your not sure where dog A was treed but is assumed to have been with dog B. Dog C gets 125+ because dog B is "assumed" to have been treed with dog A and dog C assumed to be split from dogs A and B.

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Posted by gfults on 02-26-2010 03:22 PM:

Lets say for example that dog B backed dog A on a tree and dog C split treed to the left. Dog A leaves the tree and is minused and dog B stays put. You cannot move dog B up because he never split treed. He backed dog A and stayed where dog A left. Thats not split treeing, thats backing. When a dog backs for 2nd tree he gets 75 tree points. If dog A leaves and is minused, dog B stays at 75 because he did NOT split tree! He simply backed another dog and ended up being the only one left. NOT SPLIT TREED!

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Posted by jculler8 on 02-26-2010 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gfults
Lets say for example that dog B backed dog A on a tree and dog C split treed to the left. Dog A leaves the tree and is minused and dog B stays put. You cannot move dog B up because he never split treed. He backed dog A and stayed where dog A left. Thats not split treeing, thats backing. When a dog backs for 2nd tree he gets 75 tree points. If dog A leaves and is minused, dog B stays at 75 because he did NOT split tree! He simply backed another dog and ended up being the only one left. NOT SPLIT TREED!

That's a pretty good explanation there!

Posted by RCCBLUES on 02-26-2010 06:04 PM:

THE RULE IS EVERY TREE CALLS ITS SELF THESE HANDLERS WERE BEING SAFE THE HOUNDS WERE SO DEEP THAT THEY COULDNT TELL IF THEY WERE TREE TOGETHER. WHEN THEY GOT TO THE DOGS A SHOULD HAVE BEEN MINUES ON TREE STRIKE POINTS REMAIND AS CALL B AND C TREES ARE MOVE UP TO 125 AFTER TREES IS SCORE TURN BACK TO DOG A CARD SHOULD LOOK LIKE THIS .
A 125-

B125+
C 125+
IF YOU ALL ARE IN A HUNT ALL DOGS TREE THE DOGS WILL BE CALL WHEN YOU GET TO THE TREE ONE OR ALL ARE ON THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT TREES THE TREE WILL CALL ITS SELF A COMPETION HUNTER IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT TREE HIS DOG WITH DOGS CLOSE BY BECAUSE IF HE SPLITS TREE THE DOG IT HAD BETTER BE SPLIT OR HE WILL BE MINUS SO ITS BEST TO TREE THEM ALL TOGETHER AND LET THE SPLIT TREE CALL IS SELF.

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Posted by gfults on 02-26-2010 07:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RCCBLUES
THE RULE IS EVERY TREE CALLS ITS SELF THESE HANDLERS WERE BEING SAFE THE HOUNDS WERE SO DEEP THAT THEY COULDNT TELL IF THEY WERE TREE TOGETHER. WHEN THEY GOT TO THE DOGS A SHOULD HAVE BEEN MINUES ON TREE STRIKE POINTS REMAIND AS CALL B AND C TREES ARE MOVE UP TO 125 AFTER TREES IS SCORE TURN BACK TO DOG A CARD SHOULD LOOK LIKE THIS .
A 125-

B125+
C 125+
IF YOU ALL ARE IN A HUNT ALL DOGS TREE THE DOGS WILL BE CALL WHEN YOU GET TO THE TREE ONE OR ALL ARE ON THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT TREES THE TREE WILL CALL ITS SELF A COMPETION HUNTER IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT TREE HIS DOG WITH DOGS CLOSE BY BECAUSE IF HE SPLITS TREE THE DOG IT HAD BETTER BE SPLIT OR HE WILL BE MINUS SO ITS BEST TO TREE THEM ALL TOGETHER AND LET THE SPLIT TREE CALL IS SELF.

WRONG! I am a MOH and Ive served as a judge at numerous Pro Hunts, Super Stakes and World Hunts and when a dog has moved and been minused you CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT move dogs up just because they are treed alone when you get there. In the scenario described on this thread dog B was NEVER split treed. He backed a dog that didnt stay! PERIOD! Both KC's are pretty much the same on this situation.

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PKC Ch. Tenn. Blackjack- R.I.P.

Posted by john Duemmer on 02-26-2010 07:49 PM:

Coonhunters are a stubbbborn bunch. NOBODY moves up in this situation. A was treed and left so he gets minus, but he was treed first so no one can know if B or C were treed with A. Since you dont know who covered and who split tree points remain as originally called.

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Posted by gfults on 02-26-2010 07:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Coonhunters are a stubbbborn bunch. NOBODY moves up in this situation. A was treed and left so he gets minus, but he was treed first so no one can know if B or C were treed with A. Since you dont know who covered and who split tree points remain as originally called.

Your half right. We dont know for sure which dog was treed with but we are to assume dog A was treed with dog B. Thus leaving dog C to be split from dogs A and B. Dog A 125-. Dog B 75+. Dog C 125+ UKC has explained this interpretation on an earlier post on the first page of this thread. Also in the past.

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Skin that one pilgrim and I'll bring ya another

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PKC Ch. Tenn. Blackjack- R.I.P.

Posted by john Duemmer on 02-26-2010 08:19 PM:

Someone takes a beating in this situation, no way around it because of what we dont know. If we leave the tree points as originally called B and C walk away from this tree seperated by 25 tree points. If we make the assumption that C was the split dog we seperate them by 50 tree points. Maybe UKC needs to rethink? It is just as likely that C covered A.

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Posted by elvis on 02-26-2010 08:45 PM:

we rehash this scenario every few months on here.

it dont matter how wrong or right you think it is, in UKC dog b stays at 75 and dog c moves up to 125.

it was assumed all dogs were treed together originaly, so when dog a leaves you have to assume b is still on the tree a left and that is considered the "root" tree.

Posted by mleck on 02-26-2010 09:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
we rehash this scenario every few months on here.

it dont matter how wrong or right you think it is, in UKC dog b stays at 75 and dog c moves up to 125.

it was assumed all dogs were treed together originaly, so when dog a leaves you have to assume b is still on the tree a left and that is considered the "root" tree.

Dont know much about it but why would assume this? How do you know Dog B was not split and Dog C was the one that covered Dog a in your senario?

Posted by john Duemmer on 02-26-2010 09:50 PM:

The ROOT tree idea is only useful if A stays. The minute A leaves a root tree does not exist. I clearly understand UKC.s objective as far as consticency in scoring and would score it the way they want.
But having said that i still believe leaving the tree points as called would be simpler and less damaging point wise in a situation where we dont know who was where or when.

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Posted by jculler8 on 02-26-2010 09:57 PM:

I would say if people on a cast are treeing dogs and the judge and rest of that cast does not know who is where and when, that would be considered "pitching" your dog in my book. What do you guys think?

Posted by gfults on 02-27-2010 03:13 AM:

Not necesarily. If dogs are far enough away they may seem to all be together and then when you get there, a dog or more may be split a short distance away. This especially happens alot when in hills like here where I live. Sound echos alot and even with one dog treed, its very difficult to know exactly what direction the dog is due to the echos.

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Skin that one pilgrim and I'll bring ya another

Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Pa. Junior
Tenn. Black Lexus( Pa. Junior x Hulios Lil Stripper)

PKC Ch. Tenn. Blackjack- R.I.P.

Posted by jculler8 on 02-27-2010 02:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gfults
Not necesarily. If dogs are far enough away they may seem to all be together and then when you get there, a dog or more may be split a short distance away. This especially happens alot when in hills like here where I live. Sound echos alot and even with one dog treed, its very difficult to know exactly what direction the dog is due to the echos.

We've got the same mountains heres in PA that you've got in TN. You shouldn't be treeing your dog unless you AND the judge are sure its YOURS!

Posted by patches9452 on 02-27-2010 03:17 PM:

should be

125- 75+ 50+ YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE A WAS SO DON'T PUNISH OR ADVANCE EITHER ONE

Posted by Big Bawler on 02-27-2010 04:26 PM:

Re: should be

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
125- 75+ 50+ YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE A WAS SO DON'T PUNISH OR ADVANCE EITHER ONE

i agree this is how i would score this

__________________
Brad Blakeman
NORTHERN LIGHTS ENGLISH

NITECH SILVERTONE REBEL YELL (never forgotten 1/3/10)
NORTHERN LIGHTS SHOOTER
NORTHERN LIGHTS SHIFTER
if it aint broke, fix it till it is...

Posted by on 02-27-2010 04:56 PM:

Reading comprehension seems to be in short order around here. Before anyone else post on here would you please go back and read what the official interpretation from Allen is. The rest of these opinions are just wasted typing.

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