UKC Forums - Should a dog leave one track for a fresher track?

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-- Should a dog leave one track for a fresher track? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=325661)

Posted by Dale Young on 01-14-2010 02:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by treberta
There is no way anyone on here can tell forsure that their dog switched tracks. NO WAY

I knom my dogs like the back of my hand, this came from weeks of just me and them together in the woods but I cannot sit here and tell you I know when they "switched" tracks. I can take a wild guess and say sure they did or no they didn't but that's all I can do is guess. Now say I could tell forsure that they switched tracks, I would wan't my dog to finish the fastest track period. Why would anyone want to heve their dog run a two hour old track over a coon they are 60 feet behind? I sure wouldn't.

I can however tell you within the fierst minute or two if the track they are running is a good one or a bad one.

Thats about the way I see it. Dogs are about smart enough to know a cold track from a hot track but the hot one could even be the same coon as he's feeding around. Not sure they can tell one coon from another. Just show me a coon, I'm easy.

Posted by Gibbo on 01-14-2010 02:46 PM:

This is what separates a good track dog from a mud sucker. A good track dog doesn't take every step the coon takes. I can't stand a dog that has to take exactly the same steps the coon takes.

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Posted by bullrider19591 on 01-14-2010 02:59 PM:

leaveone track for a fresher track

just me if my dog is on a track i want me to end that track no better what. not saying he will 9 time out of 10 he will. i like them kind of dogs u can win alot of hunts that way i think.just me tho

Posted by scott shaw on 01-14-2010 03:22 PM:

I had a dog many years ago that would strike and finish the
first old track he came across. He was a dog that would open on a track way before most dogs and a track straddler but was a
pretty fast track dog for a straddler. He would often take a track
a couple miles before getting treed and it was irritating because
a lot of times he got us in some really terrible places. If we had other dogs they would often tree a couple hotter ones along
the way. My buddy would say I wonder how many days ago that coon walked through here! I personally want a dog to tree the first coon it can get up the fastest!

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 01-14-2010 03:39 PM:

As long as the dog strikes quick, stays open and gets treed quick, I don't care what track it trees and I have no idea how I could tell.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-14-2010 03:45 PM:

. Not sure they can tell one coon from another. Just show me a coon, I'm easy. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes sir they can tell the differance between one coon and another.

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Posted by treekatie on 01-14-2010 03:56 PM:

Okie as far as man tracking for law enforcement purposes goes, there are a couple of issues:

1- The dog is a tool, one tool, to make a good tracking case for court. I worked with some good ones years ago, but none of them could testify in court! So we had to hand track as well, matching prints, sizes, etc. as well as other evidence in order to make it a solid court case (that we were tracking the same guy all along, especially in populated areas with heavy foot traffic).

2- Evidence vital to the case could be left anywhere along that track, and often it was. If my dog came across a warmer track and I let him go with it, I could be missing crucial evidence that could be a deal maker or breaker.

3- In many bloodhound callouts, the suspect was caught by guys on the perimeter of the area we were working. Around here, we had a good reputation and when they heard those cowbells ringing a lot of bad guys would get to hoofing it out of there and get caught crossing out. We still ran the track regardless, to put him leaving point A and getting caught at point B, so he couldn't come up with some story about walking through the woods picking scuppernongs at 2 a.m. if you know what I mean!

Bottom line is that when I was in the business we all wanted our dogs to start and finish the same track, beginning to end, with no costly shortcuts.

I like a coonhound with the same dedication, but also respect intelligence in a hound...something I haven't been blessed with a lot of!

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-14-2010 04:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by treekatie
Okie as far as man tracking for law enforcement purposes goes, there are a couple of issues:

1- The dog is a tool, one tool, to make a good tracking case for court. I worked with some good ones years ago, but none of them could testify in court! So we had to hand track as well, matching prints, sizes, etc. as well as other evidence in order to make it a solid court case (that we were tracking the same guy all along, especially in populated areas with heavy foot traffic).

2- Evidence vital to the case could be left anywhere along that track, and often it was. If my dog came across a warmer track and I let him go with it, I could be missing crucial evidence that could be a deal maker or breaker.

3- In many bloodhound callouts, the suspect was caught by guys on the perimeter of the area we were working. Around here, we had a good reputation and when they heard those cowbells ringing a lot of bad guys would get to hoofing it out of there and get caught crossing out. We still ran the track regardless, to put him leaving point A and getting caught at point B, so he couldn't come up with some story about walking through the woods picking scuppernongs at 2 a.m. if you know what I mean!

Bottom line is that when I was in the business we all wanted our dogs to start and finish the same track, beginning to end, with no costly shortcuts.

I like a coonhound with the same dedication, but also respect intelligence in a hound...something I haven't been blessed with a lot of!

Yes sir I agree with you and that was the differance I pointed out in the blood hound handlers. Some wanted theres to stay devoted to the track and some didn't. Didn't take the time to explane. Some at these seminars are law enforcement and some are search and rescue. L.E. of course wants the whole track for proof and evidence found on track.
The search and rescue ( most of them) wanted fastest way to the victom.
Like I said in my other post though. Personaly for fun I would like a hound that would stay commited to track.
Now for comp. I want the one that will take the best trail and if he airs one that will work to. Hottest and fastest. LOL
Don't take a lot of brains, not as nice to listen to but will win.
I know what you meen about intelligence. What little I had I for got. LOL

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-14-2010 04:20 PM:

treekatie, did yawl ever use one of those scent extraction machines Jerry Yelk came up with? I think it was Yelk. Him or Glen Remby. Any way I know they got them in production but didn't ever here how they done.

Noticed you are in S.C. I have a good frien in N.C. his name is Edwin Gant. He is a game warden in Franklin N.C. have you ever worked with him?

Posted by Maniac on 01-14-2010 04:24 PM:

A COON DAWG WILL FINISH THE TRACK THEY START!

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Posted by Vic Stoll on 01-14-2010 04:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
You guys talking about them going under coon while tracking. You have to remember Just becouse you see coon up on the way to the dogs doesn't mean the dog crossed that coons track. The coon could had just been comeing toward the dog heard it and ran up. The coon could just be comeing out of a den and not been down wet. May be no way for the dog to know it is there with out borrowing your light. LOL

Grady, that is why I prefer a good lay-up dog! LOL

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Posted by on 01-14-2010 04:45 PM:

BY ALL MEAN'S

Here's my thing. I have found that a dog that is glued to the first track it start's & nothing but is the same dog that's gonna get shut out on coon by dog's that are more intelligent head's up kinda dog's that are gonna tree behind them or to the side.

A dog that will pick a coon off'n the thermal's while their pickin said old track & forget about mud holin up yesterday's track is gonna put more coon in your freezer or more point's on the card.Turnin over leaf's to get scent is not for me but swingin,driftin & movin on are.

My vote is for the intelligent hound that tree's the first coon they can regardless if they started out runnin a track with a quarter inch of frost in it or not. The one's that have the ability to do this consistently are the type I want,have & will continue breeding for.

Nothing like havin your hound fall out of a race & comin treed with the meat behind the other's but to each their own.

So to answer your question,for my personal need's & want's,"YES" , By all mean's.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-14-2010 04:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Vic Stoll
Grady, that is why I prefer a good lay-up dog! LOL

Yep they need to know it all. I am working with my 9 wead old on air allready. LOL

Posted by treberta on 01-14-2010 04:54 PM:

Re: BY ALL MEAN'S

quote:
Originally posted by Two toes
Here's my thing. I have found that a dog that is glued to the first track it start's & nothing but is the same dog that's gonna get shut out on coon by dog's that are more intelligent head's up kinda dog's that are gonna tree behind them or to the side.

A dog that will pick a coon off'n the thermal's while their pickin said old track & forget about mud holin up yesterday's track is gonna put more coon in your freezer or more point's on the card.Turnin over leaf's to get scent is not for me but swingin,driftin & movin on are.

My vote is for the intelligent hound that tree's the first coon they can regardless if they started out runnin a track with a quarter inch of frost in it or not. The one's that have the ability to do this consistently are the type I want,have & will continue breeding for.

Nothing like havin your hound fall out of a race & comin treed with the meat behind the other's but to each their own.

So to answer your question,for my personal need's & want's,"YES" , By all mean's.

well said.

Posted by BWSupplies on 01-14-2010 06:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
A COON DAWG WILL FINISH THE TRACK THEY START!

You said it. That's the difference in a coon dog and a tree dog.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-14-2010 06:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BWSupplies
You said it. That's the difference in a coon dog and a tree dog.

They are a lot of enjoyment to hunt. They just aren't going to win many comps.

Posted by treberta on 01-14-2010 06:19 PM:

I don't enjoy freezing my butt off sitting there hoping my dog can track a coon that went through there 2 or 3 hiours prior to my dog. Maybe that's just me tho. I like to tree coon not waste time lol

Posted by BWSupplies on 01-14-2010 06:29 PM:

Just about everybody in my parts hunts walker dogs. Now I'm not talking bad about them, but the ones here are hot nosed, run silent, and independent as everything. The boys here want them that way and thats fine, but you can take a dog with a better nose and bet them out. A dog with a better nose can run a cold track that other dogs can't pick up on and run it till the end. That can be good or bad in a comp hunt, but I've never had any trouble, he can make a bad track sound like its smoking hot.

You can tell a difference when your dogs chooses a better track. If he opens on track, he should pick up and really drive it.

Posted by Maniac on 01-14-2010 06:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
They are a lot of enjoyment to hunt. They just aren't going to win many comps.

THIS IS ALL THAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT TODAY IS COMP HUNTS. WHAT HAPPEN TO THE COON DAWGS? I KNOW I WONT OWN JUST A HOT NOSE HOUND!

Posted by on 01-14-2010 06:44 PM:

"THEN"

There are dog's that are more than capable of runnin old track's with the best of them & still have the ability to tree settin coon. If my dog pick's a cold track & I see several coon on the way to them that I know they been under that individual's chance of a permanent address deminish's greatly if said lack of ability continue's to be shown.

Not talkin bout hot nosed pop up dog's that gotta go most of the way thru a section before they think about huntin. A true "LAY UP" dog more than not does not finish the prehistoric track they started on unless the coon are that scarce.

There is a difference...........

Posted by on 01-14-2010 06:54 PM:

"NOT EVERYBODY"

quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
THIS IS ALL THAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT TODAY IS COMP HUNTS. WHAT HAPPEN TO THE COON DAWGS? I KNOW I WONT OWN JUST A HOT NOSE HOUND!

My thinkin has alway's been there isn't no difference in a comp or pleasure dog. The name of the game is to tree coon,the most coon in the least time without fallin in the hot nosed ground gatherin for no reason idiot trench's. Not into buildin a fire to stay warm while ol Boo Hoo mudhole's along for half the nite either. I wanna tree "COON".

Our's may see some hunt's but like the majority we pleasure hunt way more than we pay entry fee's & I couldn't even imagine havin a different hound to pleasure hunt or to enter into a hunt.

A "COONDOG" is a "COONDAWG" whether your peelin pelt's or keepin score. It is however a personal preference thing & no one is entitled to tell you what make's "YOU" happy.

Posted by blueticker on 01-14-2010 06:56 PM:

I like a hound that opens on a cold track. The next bark in about minute 200 yds deeper. Then 1/4 mile running to catch,hearing the coon squal or treed. What I like the most about these deals is when the other hounds didn't realize the train had left.

P.S. - Left out this part - this type hound will have the meat and you'll look at it.

P.S.S. It's hard to tell at times on rather they hit a better track or just warmed theirs up. If there standing on their heads they better leave. Now if a hound is working a bad track and hounds strike a hot one away from them, I want my hounds to stay hooked on their track.

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Posted by treberta on 01-14-2010 07:03 PM:

Re: "NOT EVERYBODY"

quote:
Originally posted by Two toes
My thinkin has alway's been there isn't no difference in a comp or pleasure dog. The name of the game is to tree coon,the most coon in the least time without fallin in the hot nosed ground gatherin for no reason idiot trench's. Not into buildin a fire to stay warm while ol Boo Hoo mudhole's along for half the nite either. I wanna tree "COON".

Our's may see some hunt's but like the majority we pleasure hunt way more than we pay entry fee's & I couldn't even imagine havin a different hound to pleasure hunt or to enter into a hunt.

A "COONDOG" is a "COONDAWG" whether your peelin pelt's or keepin score. It is however a personal preference thing & no one is entitled to tell you what make's "YOU" happy.

Man what a smart guy. There should be no difference in a competition dog and a pleasure dog. If you say my dog is a good pleasure dog then it has faults! If you say my dog is only a good competition dog then that dog has some faults! The good ones can do them BOTH and do it consistently.

Posted by BWSupplies on 01-14-2010 07:04 PM:

Re: "THEN"

quote:
Originally posted by Two toes
There are dog's that are more than capable of runnin old track's with the best of them & still have the ability to tree settin coon. If my dog pick's a cold track & I see several coon on the way to them that I know they been under that individual's chance of a permanent address deminish's greatly if said lack of ability continue's to be shown.

Not talkin bout hot nosed pop up dog's that gotta go most of the way thru a section before they think about huntin. A true "LAY UP" dog more than not does not finish the prehistoric track they started on unless the coon are that scarce.

There is a difference...........

You made a good point on not having many coons, we do not. I guess that's why I want my dog to finish what he starts. We are hunting tonight and I'm willing to bet from between 7:00 pm and 1:00 am will not look but maybe 6 to 8 coons. The drought we had a few years ago really diminished our coon population

Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-14-2010 07:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by treberta
I don't enjoy freezing my butt off sitting there hoping my dog can track a coon that went through there 2 or 3 hiours prior to my dog. Maybe that's just me tho. I like to tree coon not waste time lol

No it's not just you. There is a lot of people like that but there are a lot like me that would enjoy listening to a race like that too.

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