UKC Forums - Goverment stuck us retired older folks

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Posted by jowlsofthunder on 12-19-2009 01:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
the blood sucking insurance companies.

Mr. Okie Dawg, sir How does a company(s) that makes less than 2% profit a year get to be labeled as "bloodsucking"??

I bet Reggie at Valley creek or even the UKC have a larger profit margin that that.

Posted by truly on 12-19-2009 05:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek
Where did I call you a name besides "clueless"?? Which you are.
...........
Tell all of these liberal/Communist enviro-wackos to take their bogus
............
Or Appointing Communists, marxists, and radical Dictator worshiping radicals to prominent positions within our Govt.

.

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek

You're a hypocrite Truly. A mindless Marxist drone. A PAWN used by the DEM party top push their agenda so they can cut your throat a little quicker.

It's not just me you are calling names, I can handle it. But you are calling the Pentagon and the DoD "liberal/Communist enviro-wackos". You do realize that for the last several years that our dept of defense is working on plans on how to deal with the effects of global warming?

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek
Cut taxes...Which will increase revenue, adding more jobs, INCREASED REVENUE AGAIN. Stifling business and raising taxes DECREASES revenue. Obama is beginning to figure that out.

Cut ALL funding to all of these pet projects that waste money studying the sex habits of ants and if slowly pulling a bandaid or quickly ripping it off hurts the most.

Stop welfare to anyone under 50 years old who can walk, has arms, and a IQ of that of a 8 year old who refuses to get a job.

When we go to war..BOMB THE ENEMY INTO SUBMISSION and get our soldiers home ASAP. Don't tie the hands of our soldiers and threaten them with life in prison if they bust a terrorist in the mouth while apprehending the,(did that one make you proud of your Democrat ran govt Truly??)

Tell all of these liberal/Communist enviro-wackos to take their bogus Global warming claims and wipe their rear end with them. Tell the 3rd world countries who were going to make BILLIONS off of this scam they are up a creek and to GTH.

Those 5-6 tidbits should save a few trillion alone.

I answered them....

So which quality is it that draws you to Obama??

The quality that has impressed me about Obama is his ability to have a grown up conversation about tough subjects and show me that he has a firm grasp of all sides of an issue. At this point I am not entirely satisfied with what he has done. I have not liked several of his appointments, and have not liked some of his choices of who to bailout. As Dogwood English feels- how about bailing out citizens in trouble rather than banks?
Last week Obama gave himself a B grade, I would not give him that high of a grade myself.

As to your answers above- first off, Bush proved tax cuts don't stimulate the economy over the long term- and they don't increase revenue. Tax is a revenue, decreasing something decreases it. Decreasing something does not increase it.
I agree there is quite a bit of wasteful spending on "pet projects". But many of these pet projects lead to science and technological breakthroughs that give us a competitive edge and economic growth. Are you willing to give up being the world leader in technology/science/ development? What are the long term economic ramifications of that?
as to welfare- DE has shared that he had an "on the job accident" that put him on disability. It does sound like he "can walk, has arms and a IQ of that of a eight year old"[ btw - if you had the IQ of AN eight year old you would have used 'an' rather than 'a' in that sentence twice] so should he have not gotten the assistance that he had paid in for over the many years? Are you willing to tell DE that he didn't deserve what he got?
And as to bombing the enemy into submission- have you figured out who the enemy is yet? The twenty hijackers were mostly from Saudi Arabia, but had resided in the U.S. for the last several years before the attacks of 9-11. Are you suggesting dropping bombs on America? on Saudi Arabia? Or dropping bombs on Iraq [where none of the terrorists came from] or Afghanistan? Have you done the math on how many bombs would need to be dropped over Afghan territory to wipe them all out? Is it more cost effective to bomb them in the parts of the country that have extremely low population density, or to go in with troops?

__________________
patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!

Posted by truly on 12-19-2009 05:25 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwood English
Truly, i went to work in a textile[ sewing factory] one day after graduation and started at $1.00 an hr and after years of getting promoted they passed a bill and textiles were shipped over seas and they shot the factories down and than i got any job i could find in my town. i finally got a job selling cars for Toyota until our secretary pinned me between two cars and pushed my hip completely though pelvic bone . was unable to work for over a year and drawed lot less from workmans comp than my salary because Va is one of few states u cant sue while on job, so we lived off our savings for over a year. i know hard luck case. im just tired of Obama and he will put us down. and now they want to do away with anything to do with God. not only him bacause he is Muslim but lots of non beleivers which are in minorty. worksman paid me 1/3 what i could have earned

DE- every week when I see the amount taken out of my pay check to subsidize others who have a disability or are retired, I just hope it goes to a worthy cause. It sounds like you are. I am happy that those of us who are young enough and able to work can help those who can't.
Thank goodness for the benefits and protections that workers do have. In my opinion, we could use more.
On this subject- one thing that just burns me- these high paid CEOs never have any risk to their health. They work in nice safe buildings, heated parking, secure work environment. But the laborers who work in dangerous situations get no pay bump to compensate for putting their body on the line every day. Laborers in the mines subject to safety concerns every day. Farmers, lumbermen, roadworkers and construction workers put their health on the line every day to make a little more than poverty level. When is the last time you heard of a CEO dying in a mine collapse or a tree falls on him or a bulldozer overturns and pins him down to his death?
I am fortunate, my work is safe. However, growing up on a farm I have respect for those who have jobs that put their safety on the line, and think that pay should reflect that.

__________________
patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!

Posted by john nannemann on 12-19-2009 06:16 AM:

Re: Re: Goverment stuck us retired older folks

quote:
Originally posted by truly
DE- a couple of questions- if you are retired, why aren't you on medicare? or when you talk about "bills went up including health insurance" are you referring to copays?

If you are on a govt retirement system and receiving govt subsidized healthcare would you like to see those govt programs expanded or cut?
John would say you are someone who is "living off the teat",

i went hunting and missed some fun. don't know how to do the space thing and get caps on the quotes so here goes.

i believe i have stated several times on the magnum opus(unemployment) thread that we HAVE TO pay for these current obligations because as they are already in place, people paid in on them and modified their lifestyles expecting them, and to eliminate them in midstream would be "cruel". to do otherwise would be welching. i also would like to see them all GO over time. i would have wished they had never been enacted. YES, they are all forms of socialism and have helped to lower then overall savings rate and helped cause a cavalier abrogation of personal responsibility.

i'll move on in the next post for the rest.

Posted by john nannemann on 12-19-2009 07:02 AM:

Re: Re: Goverment stuck us retired older folks

quote:
Originally posted by truly

Now, I am under the assumption that you are human being, a member of my society [The United States of America], and not just a paid propogandist working for some corporation. I believe in working together [John calls it collectivism] to care for citizens of my society. John calls that socialism. I call it traditional Judeo-Christian values. Those values tell me that we would be best to tax more heavily the super rich to care for working class. [John would call that marxism]. I believe that we should quit bailing out the capitalists and start caring for the working class. Now some would say that I am "redistributing wealth", but if you worked hard all your life, didn't you in fact help create that wealth that the millionaires have? Why should the CEO of a for profit health insurance company make hundreds of thousands of dollars a day, while a guy who maybe cut wood or mined for coal, or farmed their whole life would have to work for 10 years to make what a CEO might make in a day? Are these people better than you? More worthy than you? Do they deserve to live the good life more than you?

I think not.

1st, i would call it the names that it IS- which you have so graciously posted for me above.

2nd- coersion/compulsion are not Judeo/Christian values- charity is.

3rd- the top 1%(of which i am not part of) are already paying 40% of all the income taxes and many are helping keep the jobs going to collect the remaining 60%.

4th- i ALSO think we should stop bailing out SO CALLED capitalists( i agree with you!!! thats 2) BUT- i think the so called "working class"(of which i'm a part of) should try to get a better handle on why their compensation is what it is.

5th- if the ceo is COMPETENT- makes a return on investment for the shareholders of the company, is able to "run" the company in a way that many people derive their paychecks from it, then yes, he is "worth" it, THE OWNERS OF THE COMPANY have deemed it so. the guy that cut wood, mined coal, or farmed did not generate the same ECONOMIC impact. if competent ceo's were dripping from trees, they wouldn't get paid as much. SIMPLE economics. see "economic lesson" below.

6th- not necessarily better "people", but obviously "better" economically, more "worthy" ECONOMICALLY, and may or may not "live a better life" then you or me depending on your definition of said "better life". i personally like my life, i work to make enough to support my family, i get to go coon hunting, i'm not responsible for many folks livelyhood. go read your history of the early soviet union's problems when they had killed off the traders and the managers. stalin effectively said ''hey, this crap is HARD''.

economic lesson-

truly, et al.
do you not understand the purchaser of a product or service ultimately determines the "value" of the "labor" held inside said product or service?
teaching moment example- jasper johns can spread some beeswax and pigment onto a board into a picture of a "bullseye" and the purchaser values his "labor'' into the millions of dollars. you can go to walmart and buy a whole package of bullseyes for about 5 bucks. the purchaser of these has determined the value of not just each of these bullseye's- a few cents each, but also the value of getting it there and having it there went desired(carrying costs). at their most basic, their both pictures of bullseyes, but a huge difference in what the purchasers value them at. without some return on investment, there is no incentive to invest in making anything. consume what is available and then STARVE.

logic fun- if the means of control in an authoritarian government system is starvation- and it is- then the logical end to starvation is DEATH. so in the end, the authoritarian, collectivist, arbitrary government forms contain an implicit "death threat". the ideology of death.

Posted by truly on 12-19-2009 04:28 PM:

John, you just can't wrap your head around the fact that "collectivism" is not socialism, it is not authoritarian or arbitrary. collectivism can be woven into these things, but collectivism is also democracy. We collectively elect our leaders. And we collectively choose to leave them in office, and one day we may collectively choose to overthrow them. If we don't make that decision collectively, who ever makes that decision will fail.
When this country finally wakes up and decides to work together towards a common goal then we will have a chance against the moneyed interests who prefer us to be fractured.

__________________
patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!

Posted by liberalcreek on 12-19-2009 04:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
John, you just can't wrap your head around the fact that "collectivism" is not socialism, it is not authoritarian or arbitrary. collectivism can be woven into these things, but collectivism is also democracy. We collectively elect our leaders. And we collectively choose to leave them in office, and one day we may collectively choose to overthrow them. If we don't make that decision collectively, who ever makes that decision will fail.
When this country finally wakes up and decides to work together towards a common goal then we will have a chance against the moneyed interests who prefer us to be fractured.

You are TRULY delusional.

Voting, Electing representatives, and collecting minimal taxes to keep the things the Constitution designated for the Govt to do isnt the same as forcing people to partake of a UNCONSTITUTIONAL health care bill and taxing companies and business owners so severely they refuse to hire, create new jobs, and innovate new ideas and products..

BTW Truly,Aren�t you just a little,maybe just a tad bit, suspicious of a bill and new laws that Washington and Obama is going to force on you, and then exempt themselves from???

If it is such a grand and perfectly legit bill, why wont they be forced to partake of it themselves??

__________________
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Posted by liberalcreek on 12-19-2009 04:36 PM:

Truly, I almost forgot. You never answered my question.

Do you support Obama because he appoints Terrorists, Marxists, Communists or Pedophiles to high rankling seats and positions within his administration??

__________________
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Posted by johnny reb on 12-19-2009 06:07 PM:

how do you people from illinois feel about them bringing the people from gitmo to illinois?

i heard a lady yesterday from illinois call in too rush limbaugh and say sarcastically it was the least the state of illinois could do too take all the criminals from gitmo because they had sent all their criminals to washington.

Posted by john nannemann on 12-19-2009 06:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
John, you just can't wrap your head around the fact that "collectivism" is not socialism, it is not authoritarian or arbitrary. collectivism can be woven into these things, but collectivism is also democracy. We collectively elect our leaders. And we collectively choose to leave them in office, and one day we may collectively choose to overthrow them. If we don't make that decision collectively, who ever makes that decision will fail.
When this country finally wakes up and decides to work together towards a common goal then we will have a chance against the moneyed interests who prefer us to be fractured.

"we the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union. establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this constitution for the united states of america."

logically( not "common sense")- if you do not use the "true"," blind" definition of natural justice, anything other is thereby the ARBITRARY decision of somebody. you have repeatedly made statements that you think this one should get this and this one shouldn't get that- ARBITRARY.

see- spanish inquisition
see- "social justice"
see- income redistribution
see- hierarchy of the "dictatorship of the proletariat"
see- hierarchy of the u.s democratic party(i.e. super delegates????- same "party" structure as the communist party of the soviet union- the top "overrules" the bottom)
see- "railroading"
ALL ARBITRARY.

truly, i ain't advocating we all move to separate caves, i'm advocating each ABLE "man" to be an island and establish "free trade" between those islands- each island though may not necessarily have the same "natural resources"- no matter how hard "we" try, this variable is still left to God.

Posted by truly on 12-19-2009 06:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by liberalcreek
Truly, I almost forgot. You never answered my question.

Do you support Obama because he appoints Terrorists, Marxists, Communists or Pedophiles to high rankling seats and positions within his administration??

asked and answered-
"At this point I am not entirely satisfied with what he has done. I have not liked several of his appointments, and have not liked some of his choices of who to bailout."

But there you go again name calling- why don't you just ask about specific appointments?

__________________
patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!

Posted by rrs on 12-19-2009 06:43 PM:

humans as well as other primates are for the most part social beings that function best in social groups which could be defined as collectives for the benefit of the individual, the social collective provides humans safety-security that is lacking in living apart from other humans... believe that humans are by their nature social or collective beings.... many-many examples of such... might take a look at Fromm's Escape From Freedom that looks at the premise that humans will trade freedom-don't believe is such a thing as total-absolute freedom for security.... certainly would be opposed to forced collectivism, but our society often provides benefits to some of its members that other members who benefit less help to provide-support.... semantics is an issue as to what is a collective, etc.. corporations, farm co-ops., consolidated school districts, organizations like the ukc, churches, nra, tea party organization are all collective endeavors...
always want the right to choose which collective we may want to be part of or support, but also realize in a social world that sometimes this is not the reality and that sometimes things are done for the good of all which may in fact undercut the rights of the individual.... guess could argue infinitum as to what is-should be etc...

believe most in illinois support using-selling the Thompson Prison to house terrorists as an economic good which is much needed in the land of lincoln....

Posted by Okie Dawg on 12-19-2009 07:44 PM:

The insurance companies favorite thing is the bigger the group the cheaper they can insure you. Well if we all pull together we make a heck of a group. One big group, insurance companies dream.
So why can't any body think that we could have a health care with out the insurance companies. We use to. Then we would have the power to get the blood sucking unfair profets out of pills and hospital stays and them makeing us come back 6 time and pay 6 office visits to do anything.
The stress test is what really gets me. About $800.00 bucks gives you a good bill of health go home and have a heart attack.
Instead of giveing you an EKG to begin with BUT it is set up to get the most out of the insurance companies becouse they are stupid enought to pay it and the people paying the insurance company hate them so bad they don't care how bad they get ripped off. I don't know what percent they make but I know how they live around here and they do VERY WELL.
Insurance should had never been allowed to be sold. Then you wouldn't be blinded and could see the cost as it is charged. This whole country has became like a car salesman. They rassel and dassel you with BS let you think you are getting the car for one price then when you get to the paper work they just add it in some were else. My favorite is "it is only $ 5.00 a month"
Well $ 5.00 a month for 60 months = $ 300.00 a month + interest. Not smart enough to do the interest but guess $ 400.00 or more. All of them are ripping us off in the same way just hidden a little better. Notice the salesman is never around dureing sighning.
Now if you don't think we can improve on this system you should move to a country you have more confidence in.
It makes me laugh that the ones on here that use the word comunist is the very ones that want to let these companies keep getting more power over us and OUR goverment. You notice you can't say our CEO's BUT it is still OUR GOVERMENT we just need to take the controll back. FIRST MOVE OPEN SEASON ON LOBBYIST. Did you see the law maker on tv that had been playing spanky with 2 of them. What did his vote go to for sex but the story got squished.

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Posted by liberalcreek on 12-19-2009 08:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
asked and answered-
"At this point I am not entirely satisfied with what he has done. I have not liked several of his appointments, and have not liked some of his choices of who to bailout."

But there you go again name calling- why don't you just ask about specific appointments?

No, you skirted the issue.

How can you stay so calm and "nonchalant" his appointing TERRORISTS, COMMUNISTS, People who openly speak their hatred of America and and PEDOPHILES to Govt positions??

You want be to be specific?? Dont be a fool Truly. You KNOW who we are talking about.

Everyone from Geitner and Holdren, Sunstein, Hill, The Pedophile-Jennings, to the SEIU, TIDES,APOLLO GROUP,ACORN, The Felon Robert Creamer,who wrote the book that Axlerod admitted was the blueprint for their Manufactured Healthcare crisis and motives, etc, etc, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,.

Why do you act clueless about these radicals in our Govt Truly??

They are Traitors. Plain and Simple.

__________________
Nuthin' like a coon treed on Liberal Creek

Posted by liberalcreek on 12-19-2009 08:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
[B
So why can't any body think that we could have a health care with out the insurance companies. We use to. Then we would have the power to get the blood sucking unfair profets out of pills and hospital stays and them makeing us come back 6 time and pay 6 office visits to do anything.
The stress test is what really gets me. About $800.00 bucks gives you a good bill of health go home and have a heart attack.
Instead of giveing you an EKG to begin with BUT it is set up to get the most out of the insurance companies becouse they are stupid enought to pay it and the people paying the insurance company hate them so bad they don't care how bad they get ripped off. I don't know what percent they make but I know how they live around here and they do VERY WELL.
Insurance should had never been allowed to be sold. Then you wouldn't be blinded and could see the cost as it is charged. This whole country has became like a car salesman. They rassel and dassel you with BS let you think you are getting the car for one price then when you get to the paper work they just add it in some were else. My favorite is "it is only $ 5.00 a month"
Well $ 5.00 a month for 60 months = $ 300.00 a month + interest. Not smart enough to do the interest but guess $ 400.00 or more. All of them are ripping us off in the same way just hidden a little better. Notice the salesman is never around dureing sighning.
Now if you don't think we can improve on this system you should move to a country you have more confidence in.
It makes me laugh that the ones on here that use the word comunist is the very ones that want to let these companies keep getting more power over us and OUR goverment. You notice you can't say our CEO's BUT it is still OUR GOVERMENT we just need to take the controll back. FIRST MOVE OPEN SEASON ON LOBBYIST. Did you see the law maker on tv that had been playing spanky with 2 of them. What did his vote go to for sex but the story got squished. [/B]

All of the procedures, tests, etc are all MANDATED by the Govt. The Doctors are FORCED to do all of those tests or risk being sued by the Democrats favorite campaign money donors. The Trial lawyers.
Odd you mentioned the costs of medicine seeing as Obama made a MULTI BILLION dollar deal with the largest drug company in the country to get them to sign on to his bill.

I am all for taking baclk control of the Govt. I am surprised you are wanting that as well seeing as YOU are supporting the man and the administration who is in the process of taking our most sacred and personal freedom we can have from us. Our Health. It will no longer be YOUR decision when this passes. It will be the decision of the Board the Govt places you under to determine if you are WORTH being treated fpr whatever illness you may have.

My insurance company has NO control over me. I pay the agreed to price and premiums and get the care I need WHEN I need it.

Go to ANY country that has Govt controlled healthcare and see if they get the quality of care we do.

THEY DONT.

__________________
Nuthin' like a coon treed on Liberal Creek

Posted by liberalcreek on 12-19-2009 08:22 PM:

Jowels made a good point that Okie and the other Obama drones failed to acknowledge. The Insurance companies make less than 2% in profits. How is that being "greedy"?

__________________
Nuthin' like a coon treed on Liberal Creek

Posted by john nannemann on 12-19-2009 09:40 PM:

a good common goal i can support: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all citizens without the "playing of favorites" by some robber planners. liberty and JUSTICE for all.

most leftists hate true justice, not arbitrary enough to suit em.

Posted by Grant Noeske on 12-19-2009 09:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by johnny reb
how do you people from illinois feel about them bringing the people from gitmo to illinois?

i heard a lady yesterday from illinois call in too rush limbaugh and say sarcastically it was the least the state of illinois could do too take all the criminals from gitmo because they had sent all their criminals to washington.

The prison was built and sat mostly empty for years. The people in the area want jobs...so they're all for bringing in the Gitmo detainees...at least everyone I've talked to. The politicians are the only ones bickering back and forth about it, as far as I can tell.

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Posted by sweetwater on 12-19-2009 11:29 PM:

i feel for all i'm going to make 20 grand less then i did last year.I didn't get a cost of living raise.

__________________
William Fry

Posted by Rip on 12-20-2009 12:10 AM:

Truly, you are wrong about the tax cuts.

Tax cuts have been proven over and over again to INCREASE the amount of revenue coming into the US Treasuary.

Not once or twice but over and over and over again.

It's called the Laughler Curve or some such. There is a point that it doesn't, but right now we are way, way, way to the right of the curve, meaning tax cuts will actually increase income for the gubment because the taxes now are opressive and supress growth.

When that is the case a tax cut will spur growth and because more people are making more and doing better it's a net increase.

If you back off too far then it doesn't have that effect.

Most economists know this, and when the question was asked to Oprama he said he would increase taxes even though it would DECREASE REVENUE TO THE US GUBMENT because he believed taxes should be used to manipulate and punnish people and businesses for succeeding. His opinion is to use the tax code not for running the gubment for only needed services, what it was actually for, but for social justice.

That is theft and that is wrong. People shouldn't be punnished for working hard.

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Posted by john nannemann on 12-20-2009 12:32 AM:

the phrase "social justice" as used by the leftists is about as far away from true justice as you can get. it might be the single most arbitrarily "loaded" phrase and ideology in the lexicon of phrases and ideology. "social justice" is a good definition for the phrase "moving target". it is truly a farce and laughs in the face of real justice.

Posted by truly on 12-20-2009 12:44 AM:

Rip, Bush took office with a budget surplus. He lowered taxes as soon as he arrived. He doubled our national debt in 8 years. He has proven lowering taxes does not raise revenue.

Laffer himself proposed the curve only as a learning tool and in 2007 warned "The Laffer Curve should not be the reason you raise or lower taxes"

__________________
patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and your government when it deserves it.
if you think the price of education is high, check out the cost of ignorance!

Posted by Dogwood English on 12-20-2009 12:54 AM:

correct me if am wrong but i thought the country was going down hill fast when Clinton was in office. he signed bill to send everything over seas and to Mexico. if am wrong tell me i am just an old man and maybe missed something. but when he was in office things were closing here every where textiles and furniture factories were shuttin g down all over town and we lost Dupont factory. i may have missed something with my old age but i remember things were going down hill fast with him in office. all he was interested was oral sex was not sex lol u could fool me. i came up in late 50's

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Posted by rrs on 12-20-2009 01:08 AM:

Rip,
reducing -cutting taxes to increase revenue is a mixed bag at best... take a look at Investopedia by Forbes to look at this issue... no agreement on the idea of cutting taxes as means to increase revenue-complex issue with many factors involved.... don't believe the Bush cuts increased revenue since spending was never reduced which should occur to maximize reduction in tax intake.... all for lower taxes, better yet the fair tax and get off the regressive progressive income tax- can than close the irs which would be a great saving...

Posted by Rip on 12-20-2009 01:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by truly
Rip, Bush took office with a budget surplus. He lowered taxes as soon as he arrived. He doubled our national debt in 8 years. He has proven lowering taxes does not raise revenue.

Laffer himself proposed the curve only as a learning tool and in 2007 warned "The Laffer Curve should not be the reason you raise or lower taxes"

Pretty sure the REVENUE increased. I will look it up but I am almost positive it did.

That doesn't mean anything as to the surplus (real or imagined LOL).

Spending is the other side of the equation.

Many times revenues increased but didn't keep up with spending.

But the main problem is Oprama himself declared that he would NOT lower taxes even if he knew for sure America would be better off and that revenue increased because that wouldn't satisfy his desire to "punnish" the producers of society. That attitude is a HUGE problem.

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