UKC Forums - Dogs Trailing out of Hearing ?

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-- Dogs Trailing out of Hearing ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=303084)

Posted by HOBO on 10-01-2009 04:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SLICK50
Casey that all made my head hurt. Dog a was treed before they would make the decision to call time-out so the rule 8 note is useless.

(g) Time out will be called when dog(s) are trailing and out of hearing distance in different directions.

How much easier does it need to read ???????????????? Notice that it states dog(s) which in this case b and c are dogs. Case closed.

You don't call time out in the case. Dog a was treed and when they started to the tree you could hear dogs b and c. And he didn't say b and c were trailing in different directions just away from dog a.

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Posted by SLICK50 on 10-01-2009 04:59 PM:

NO! in this situation once time-out is called dogs c and b have to be gathered up by there handler within the hour or be scratched. That's the risk when you call time-out. Once you vote to call time-out it doesn't matter if b and c would have jammed a tree 30 seconds after calling time-out. No points will be counted during time-out EXCEPT dog a but as soon as dogs a's tree is scored time-out is in effect.

HOBO if they were trailing away from dog a out of hearing then YES you would call time-out. My gosh i don't know why i even bother. How simple does this need to be???????

Posted by HOBO on 10-01-2009 05:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SLICK50
NO! in this situation once time-out is called dogs c and b have to be gathered up by there handler within the hour or be scratched. That's the risk when you call time-out. Once you vote to call time-out it doesn't matter if b and c would have jammed a tree 30 seconds after calling time-out. No points will be counted during time-out EXCEPT dog a but as soon as dogs a's tree is scored time-out is in effect.

HOBO if they were trailing away from dog a out of hearing then YES you would call time-out. My gosh i don't know why i even bother. How simple does this need to be???????

You need to go back and REREAD the post. He doesn't say time out was called. He's asking what should be done in a case like this.

Posted by SLICK50 on 10-01-2009 05:05 PM:

EXACTLY and im saying time-out should be called!!!! Does dogs a tree still get scored yes! But as soon as the tree is scored handlers of dog b and c get 1 hour to meet back up.

Posted by HOBO on 10-01-2009 05:59 PM:

No they don't. First you have to go back to where you last heard them and put the 8 on them. If the 8 catches them you minus them and then they have an hour to catch them and get back with the cast.

Posted by on 10-01-2009 06:18 PM:

Slick 50 is getting confused about a rule that adresses dogs that are trailing out of hearing in different directions as opposed to a situation where you score a tree and can no longer hear the other dogs fter scoring that tree. These are two differnt sitations and different rules apply. If dogs are trailing out of hearing, you call time right then. You cannot wait until after a dog gets treed and then say "ok, we're callinmg timeout so I can avoid getting hammered by the 8 minute rule". Fact is, you could hear those dogs when you headed for that tree. If you couldn't, you should have called timeout right then. But you didn't do that. Now you score the tree, you can no longer hear the dogs,. You don't really know if they got out of hearing or just quit their track. That is why you apply the 8 and minus if the 8 catches them.

Posted by SLICK50 on 10-01-2009 06:18 PM:

Then please wise hobo explain this rule to me

(g) Time out will be called when dog(s) are trailing and out of hearing distance in different directions.

Since you know the rules so well explain this one to me.

Jim only common sense (which many coon hunters lack) will tell you that if you are walking the opposite way of the two trailing dogs in this case c and b to go to dog a's tree of course you will no longer be able to hear them. the rule doesn't say with exception of a dog treeing it simply states if dog(s) are trailing in different directions and in this case dog c and b are trailing in different directions. Simple as night and day.

So let me ask you Jim if you were the handler of b or c would you let the 8 catch you? Absolutley NOT you would immedietley ask to call time-out in accordince with rule 8(g).

Posted by on 10-01-2009 06:32 PM:

I've done my best to make it understood. It's not working so I'm done. Hit some UKC hunts and you will find out.

Posted by Casey_Lee on 10-01-2009 06:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SLICK50

So let me ask you Jim if you were the handler of b or c would you let the 8 catch you? Absolutley NOT you would immedietley ask to call time-out in accordince with rule 8(g).

HELL NO I wouldn't want to call time out!! If my dog is treed ( which she ought to be after the time it takes to go score the tree and walk back ) then I want to go back to where I last heard her and see if I can still hear her. Start the 8 if we can't and I want to walk the way I last heard her. Where as if I let you call time out after scoring the tree I have automatically gave away my strike points, and possibly a tree.

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Posted by SLICK50 on 10-01-2009 06:38 PM:

Jim it's not hard to understand and i hunt in many hunts. At least 1 a week so trust me i know the rules like the back of my hand, same as you do. You would find out if you ever drew me. You have youre oppinion on the rule and i have mine. The rule speaks for itself all we have to do is interpret it.

Posted by SLICK50 on 10-01-2009 06:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Casey_Lee
HELL NO I wouldn't want to call time out!! If my dog is treed ( which she ought to be after the time it takes to go score the tree and walk back ) then I want to go back to where I last heard her and see if I can still hear her. Start the 8 if we can't and I want to walk the way I last heard her. Where as if I let you call time out after scoring the tree I have automatically gave away my strike points, and possibly a tree.

I see where you wouldn't want to call time-out but if you walked 500 yards the opposite way those two dogs were trailing how far do you think they could possibly be by the time you score the tree of dog a? Depending on conditions wind, rain, trains, highways, bugs, oil pumps, house dogs. Yes you could be shooting yourself in the foot by calling time-out or saving at least 50 minus points. Just a matter of luck weather you pick the right 1

Posted by HOBO on 10-01-2009 07:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SLICK50
Then please wise hobo explain this rule to me

(g) Time out will be called when dog(s) are trailing and out of hearing distance in different directions.

Since you know the rules so well explain this one to me.

JUST HOW HARD IS THIS RULE TO UNDERSTAND?????

The rule you keep claiming applies to dogs that are TRAILING in different directions. This question is talking about that. A dog is treed IN HEARING and the other dogs are struck IN HEARING but are trailing away from the casy. You can't call time out in this case. I'm pretty sure this has been covered over and over and over it should even be in the advisor I keep waiting on Jim to pull out what page its on.

OK TK or Allen lets here what you all have to say?

Posted by Casey_Lee on 10-01-2009 07:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
OK TK or Allen lets here what you all have to say?

I 2nd the motion LMAO!!! Put-er to bed guys right or wrong one way or another

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Posted by Todd Miller on 10-02-2009 12:06 AM:

Go to dog or dogs that treed first Score em, return to where you could hear the other dogs. Put the 8 on them, but you should get of your lazy butts and walk towards the way you heard them last. Time out should be the last resort.

Posted by CooperCreek on 10-02-2009 12:19 AM:

(g) Time out will be called when dog(s) are trailing and out of hearing distance IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

Dog A is NOT TRAILING, its on a leash! And last the cast knew, Dogs B and C, are going THE SAME DIRECTION!!

Start the 8, and either break it or minus accordingly!

Posted by T Felderman on 10-02-2009 02:21 AM:

Actually dogs B and C were going in oppoite directions to.

Allen we're waiting.

Posted by CooperCreek on 10-02-2009 03:03 AM:

Since you said they were going against the wind, I assumed they were generally the same direction....South and East isn't quite what I call opposite directions.

Oh well. Still don't think the rule is an option. Somebody should have spoke up way before Dog A treed if it was going to be a problem with dogs trailing out of hearing in opposite directions. And the way Jim explains it is the way it has been applied in any cast I have been on.

Posted by on 10-02-2009 04:09 AM:

The time to call time for dogs trailing in opposit directions is BEFORE a dog is declared treed. Once a dog is treed, you are now required to run the 8. No way around it. You can't call timeout to avoid getting minused on the 8.

Posted by Joey Donelson on 10-02-2009 05:03 AM:

So what you are saying is if going to dog A's tree takes you out of hearing of trailing dogs, you don't go back to where you heard them last. Are you saying you start the 8 as soon as you come off dog A's tree? It seems to me you would at least go back to where you heard them last before you start the 8.

Posted by Bill(Chew) on 10-02-2009 11:47 PM:

They covered this is the Advisor, don't remember if it's in the book and I can't find it or if it was in the magazine.

You go back to the last place you could hear the dogs and then procede to a REASONABLE location to hear the dogs (top of the hill, etc.) before you start the 8. That doesn't mean walk a mile in the direction the dogs were headed though.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 10-03-2009 12:40 AM:

gots to be more to treeing a coon than a dog you cant
hear 400 yrds in the flat co.

Posted by Dentre on 10-03-2009 12:50 AM:

hey guys - with the new garmins out their now the one hour time out is a joke. we use to have walk around and listen for our dogs and get back within the hour. i would say recast dog A and tree another coon. what would you rather hunt dog A or dog B & C? the other dogs aren't your biggest problem, its the time you're losing in the hunt. Time is your worse enemy, not the other dogs.

Posted by turman on 10-03-2009 12:52 AM:

Heck, I`m relatively new to this stuff and I understand this question, 1. as long as A is treed before B and C get out of hearing you have to score A`s tree, after A`s tree is scored you go back to where you last heard B and C and start the 8, if the 8 catches them then you minus their strike and call time-out and have an hour to catch or get scratched, I think most would head towards where they were last heard while the 8 was running out of courtesy to B and C.

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Posted by ov_blues on 10-03-2009 01:03 AM:

If the handler could hear the dog that was treeing then it hadn't went out of hearing yet. Go score the tree and then go back and put the 8 on the other dogs.

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Posted by Todd Miller on 10-03-2009 03:14 PM:

Id tell you I heard my dog in the direction I heard them last, just save me from minus points and start walking in the direction, I am sure mine would be treed anyway. Called playing the game. This happens all the time.

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