UKC Forums - .POLL.........how do y'all feel???

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-- .POLL.........how do y'all feel??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=296280)

Posted by Mike Poe on 08-28-2009 11:18 PM:

I guide to dumps i dont have permission for but i let the cast know ahead of time if one says no then we move on

Mike Poe

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Posted by JefferyAntes on 08-28-2009 11:59 PM:

Each and every club is a extension of UKC and the UKC represents every club That holds UKC Hunts ,Thats one good thing of being a small part of a large thing and a large thing with alot of small parts, You can wack little pieces off the dragon all day long and little or no Harm but you wack the head off your done so Yes it shouldn't be a question of involving UKC they should automatically step in and wack that small piece off themselves No questions.

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Posted by ldrigg71 on 08-29-2009 12:31 AM:

The club I belonged to had a hard time getting qualified guides. It still doesnt make any sense to me. We had 650,000 acres with in 10 minutes drive from the club not to mention private farms. Yet we only had a few people who were willing to guide and only a couple utilized the National Forest. As far as someone intentionally making turn outs on property he has no permission to hunt. It is morally wrong and should be handled at the club level. Such incidents will give us a worse image than we already have.

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Posted by T.Beyer on 08-29-2009 12:41 AM:

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
I know that I can with my dogs.
Can't say that about dogs that blow through the country for a mile or 2 before they start hunting though.

I am with Bob on this one. Even on the worst nights here in Michigan that I can remember, my dog has not had to get off more than a mile to get hooked, and that is rare here in the land of milk and honey! Granted, we had our bases covered and we were still on legal hunting ground. Under normal conditions, and I have hunted with Bob on numerous occasions, he can tell you the same thing.

If it takes your dog a mile to get struck honest, I think I'd look at another line of dogs. It is one thing to go hunting and work whatever track you come across, it is something totally different to turn a dog loose and wonder how long he'll have to go to find a hot track.

As to the original question, I would not think it out of line at all to bar a fella from a club if he took a cast to land that he did not have permission to hunt.

Getting onto posted land is one thing, but cutting loose on that land is something totally different.
Honor Rules guys. Honor

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Posted by intellectualist on 08-29-2009 02:34 AM:

Re: Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by T.Beyer
I am with Bob on this one. Even on the worst nights here in Michigan that I can remember, my dog has not had to get off more than a mile to get hooked, and that is rare here in the land of milk and honey! Granted, we had our bases covered and we were still on legal hunting ground. Under normal conditions, and I have hunted with Bob on numerous occasions, he can tell you the same thing.

If it takes your dog a mile to get struck honest, I think I'd look at another line of dogs. It is one thing to go hunting and work whatever track you come across, it is something totally different to turn a dog loose and wonder how long he'll have to go to find a hot track.

As to the original question, I would not think it out of line at all to bar a fella from a club if he took a cast to land that he did not have permission to hunt.

Getting onto posted land is one thing, but cutting loose on that land is something totally different.
Honor Rules guys. Honor

Well, with you living in Michigan you will never know what it is like to try and hunt in thin coons. Has nothing to do with the dog, the fact is you have 50 coons to our 1!
You talk about honor. Well, I do not think you can honestly sit there and tell me that you do not turn loose on places where you know there is a high probability that the dogs will either tree, or at least track on someone's property where you do not have permission!
I would love for you to come down here and find enough tracts of land connected together by enough different property owners that you could hunt for 2-3 hours and know you had absolute permission from all of them to be on said property! I have a place or two to hunt that can cover 3-4 hours that is not posted, however, I know I am going to be on at least 15-20 different property owners through the course of the night and that is if I stay only in the logging road. That number will surely go up when I have to get out of the road!I have no way of knowing who all these property owners are, and I am surely not going to let one jerk ruin a good hunt just because he owns a half acre in the middle of a bunch of other land that is not posted!

Posted by T.Beyer on 08-29-2009 02:45 AM:

Trust me mister intellectualist, I have hunted plenty outside of this wonderful state of Michigan. I have hunted all over in the south. I have seen dogs look good and bad here and there. Don't think for a second that you have it all figured out, no matter what your name says.

The fact is the dogs still have to get the job done where they are turned loose. The dogs that are good here are gonna be good there, and vice versa.

If your dog has to go 1 mile in a straight line to find a track he can move, you had better start over.

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In Honor of Jim Sizemore, " This ain't no benchshow!"

Posted by T.Beyer on 08-29-2009 02:47 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JefferyAntes
Each and every club is a extension of UKC and the UKC represents every club That holds UKC Hunts ,Thats one good thing of being a small part of a large thing and a large thing with alot of small parts, You can wack little pieces off the dragon all day long and little or no Harm but you wack the head off your done so Yes it shouldn't be a question of involving UKC they should automatically step in and wack that small piece off themselves No questions.

Jeff, good post. It makes more sense than any of the others on here in regards to the original question.

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Posted by intellectualist on 08-29-2009 03:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by T.Beyer
Trust me mister intellectualist, I have hunted plenty outside of this wonderful state of Michigan. I have hunted all over in the south. I have seen dogs look good and bad here and there. Don't think for a second that you have it all figured out, no matter what your name says.

The fact is the dogs still have to get the job done where they are turned loose. The dogs that are good here are gonna be good there, and vice versa.

If your dog has to go 1 mile in a straight line to find a track he can move, you had better start over.

Your comments are silly. Where did I ever say my dog would go a mile to find a track he could move.
I am not really talking about dogs here, I am talking about the ability to have somewhere to make a decent nights hunt without having to drive 100 miles a night and making 10 "drops".
I am talking about hunting a decent distance on one drop and the amount of different property owners you may have to cross
to fulfill that hunt. You make it sound like you have never done that in your life and people who do this without permission have no honor!
I am glad to hear you are so well traveled. Perhaps you can come show me 15 coons in a two mile stretch sometime!
I realize my username may offend you, but no need to attack just because I thought of it and you did'nt! I get alot of comments about it and I love it, so thanks for fueling the fire!

Posted by intellectualist on 08-29-2009 03:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by T.Beyer
Jeff, good post. It makes more sense than any of the others on here in regards to the original question.

I will agree with this, because we have gotten a little off topic!

Posted by intellectualist on 08-29-2009 03:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by T.Beyer
Trust me mister intellectualist, I have hunted plenty outside of this wonderful state of Michigan. I have hunted all over in the south. I have seen dogs look good and bad here and there. Don't think for a second that you have it all figured out, no matter what your name says.

The fact is the dogs still have to get the job done where they are turned loose. The dogs that are good here are gonna be good there, and vice versa.

If your dog has to go 1 mile in a straight line to find a track he can move, you had better start over.

Just to be clear, because we may be arguing two different things here, I am talking about hunting land that is not posted but yet I do not have permission to hunt either. Are you strictly talking about turning loose directly on property that is posted? Well, I do not do that myself.
Do you feel it is unacceptable to hunt property you do not have permission to hunt even if it is not posted?

Posted by Keith Hodge on 08-29-2009 01:02 PM:

Would you steal a car just because it had the keys in it and it didnt have a sign that said do not steal. If you dont own it you shouldnt be there without permission.This kinda thinking is eactly why all those signs go up and the landowners dont allow anyone there.People will go a long way just to prove a point.You make a landowner mad because you are in there on purpose the next time may be an accident and they are not going to care.You have a lot better chance of getting permission asking before you get caught trespassing than after.I suppose things could be different in different parts of the country but I was raised it just down right disrespectful and rude to just trespass on another mans property without permission. A dog that accidentally gets off is another story. Things do happen but it should not be a common occurence

Posted by intellectualist on 08-31-2009 10:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Keith Hodge
Would you steal a car just because it had the keys in it and it didnt have a sign that said do not steal. If you dont own it you shouldnt be there without permission.This kinda thinking is eactly why all those signs go up and the landowners dont allow anyone there.People will go a long way just to prove a point.You make a landowner mad because you are in there on purpose the next time may be an accident and they are not going to care.You have a lot better chance of getting permission asking before you get caught trespassing than after.I suppose things could be different in different parts of the country but I was raised it just down right disrespectful and rude to just trespass on another mans property without permission. A dog that accidentally gets off is another story. Things do happen but it should not be a common occurence

Your car analogy is over the top and just plain makes no sense so I will not dignify that with a remark!
You have to remember, around here land HAS to be posted "In a manner reasonably to come to someones attention". If it is not posted, or if there is only one sign on a large tract, then you, by law, are not trespassing.
If you really believe and practice what you are preaching, then you would never turn your dogs loose so they may "happen" to get on someones property you do not have permission to hunt. Just because it was an accident does not make it ok because you know it is a distinct possibility it will happen when you turn your dogs loose!So do not sit there and say it is ok in one case but not in another because you know it can and does happen!
If you really felt convicted about what you are preaching, coonhunting would be a distant memory for you!

Posted by honalieh on 09-01-2009 03:01 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by SFWALKER
If this is a problem at your club simply write up a contract for the guide to sign saying that they will only be casting on land with permission, and that they assume responsibility for any violations and must pay any and all fines given to any members of the cast.

Now that you've eliminated all the guides, what comes next?

Posted by Keith Hodge on 09-01-2009 03:13 AM:

I dont have a problem hunting and getting on property we dont have permission on. As far as the car analogy it is right on you are breaking the law if you are trespassing which is not having permission . Do you honestly think just because it is not posted give you free reign.You may stand and argue with the DNR all day long but I know who will win.Bottom line is it is wrong to trespass!

Posted by intellectualist on 09-01-2009 03:26 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Keith Hodge
I dont have a problem hunting and getting on property we dont have permission on. As far as the car analogy it is right on you are breaking the law if you are trespassing which is not having permission . Do you honestly think just because it is not posted give you free reign.You may stand and argue with the DNR all day long but I know who will win.Bottom line is it is wrong to trespass!

Here is where you are absolutely wrong. I already gave you the criteria for trespassing here where I am,I don't know about where you are so I am not going to try and explain it to you again.
There are some counties here where you have to have in your possession written permission and without that you will be trespassing as well but It is not wide spread yet so I do not hunt in any of those counties at this time!I did forget to mention that in my earlier post.
It is impossible for me to believe that you do not have at least one hunting spot where you turn loose, that you know there is a good possibility you will cross over or tree on someone you do not know who owns the property, or you know who does but you do not have permission. If all you hunt is large tracts of government land then I guess it is possible so go ahead and knock yourself out with the other 50 truckloads of hunters!

Posted by Keith Hodge on 09-01-2009 10:10 PM:

Your right you know everything

Posted by intellectualist on 09-01-2009 11:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Keith Hodge
Your right you know everything

No, I never claimed to know everything. Your argument just does not hold any credence with me!

Posted by Todd Miller on 09-02-2009 02:26 AM:

Judging.

Judging & guiding casts I have warned handlers we are not on the property that I have permission to hunt. Most of the time they dont care. Judging I have called time out because I know we may get yelled at on certain land, and had to argue with handlers about doing the right thing. I would also have to say most coondogs dont get treed on the property that they have permission to hunt, and if they do that land owner owns alot of land. We have the right to retreive our hounds !!! Even the cops tell us up her just get in there and get out the owner will probally not even know. IF I AM ON THE WRONG PROPERTY I AM GETTING IN AND OUT, KEEPING LIGHTS OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, AND IF I HAVE TO I WILL WALK TO THE OTHER ROAD.

I VOTED DO NOTHING!!

Posted by intellectualist on 09-02-2009 03:11 AM:

Re: Judging.

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Miller
Judging & guiding casts I have warned handlers we are not on the property that I have permission to hunt. Most of the time they dont care. Judging I have called time out because I know we may get yelled at on certain land, and had to argue with handlers about doing the right thing. I would also have to say most coondogs dont get treed on the property that they have permission to hunt, and if they do that land owner owns alot of land. We have the right to retreive our hounds !!! Even the cops tell us up her just get in there and get out the owner will probally not even know. IF I AM ON THE WRONG PROPERTY I AM GETTING IN AND OUT, KEEPING LIGHTS OUT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, AND IF I HAVE TO I WILL WALK TO THE OTHER ROAD.

I VOTED DO NOTHING!!

Thank you! I am afraid I do not know enough people rich enough to own as much land that would be required to allow me to honestly say "Well, I know with out a doubt when I turn my dogs loose at this spot, they will most certantly strike and tree on land I have permission to hunt on"!
Heck, I do not think I even personally know enough land owners combined that if they had all their land connected together that I could even say it then.
How many acres would it take to feel comfortable in making that statement?200-500-1000??? The largest tract of land I have permission for is about 75 acres and 9 times out of 10 I get treed off of the land I have permission to hunt and my dog does not blow through the country! Imagine if he did, he would tree off that property 100% of the time!

Posted by jackbob42 on 09-02-2009 04:43 AM:

Made 2 drops tonight.
2 trees , 2 coons.
1 big boar (good cornfield race) , 1 small kitten.
The dog left the property I turned out on , but I have permission to hunt there also , for the kitten.
Was back home in an hour.
Could have turned loose again in both spots , but I like to take the dogs for a ride in between coons , to cool off , this time of year.

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Posted by JeremyBayless on 09-02-2009 04:55 AM:

permission

quote:
Originally posted by todd kellam
How do you prove that he knew he didn't have permission? Seems like that could get messy? What if he thought he had permission? I can think of situations where that could be the case. Just seems hard to prove that he knew he didn't.

Ill have to argue with that if you have permission you know you have permission if you dont you know you dont have it
Think of that as your house do I have permission to walk into your house NO butt if I do I know I do and I wont unless I do
Not saying every where I go I have it butt I would say this is a club problem if it happens alot with the same guide it should be UKCs problem

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Posted by coon dawg on 09-02-2009 12:10 PM:

Re: Re: ...............

quote:
Originally posted by intellectualist
Read my post again sir!!!!!!!!!!! Let me put a bunch of exclamation points in there like you did question marks!!! I plainly said that game land around here was the only place I knew of that you could make a decent hunt without getting on someone where it may matter.
If you like hunting rock cliffs and places where three other trucks are already parked then go for it!!!!!!!!!!

.....ok........my bad.......now I understand..........you just won't hunt an area because it's a little rough..........don't come to Georgia...............just about all our hunting is " a little rough"....good day..........

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Posted by Todd Miller on 09-02-2009 02:07 PM:

! year

Heck the way the poll is going, it will be really easy to get 1st on a hound, cause everybody is going to be bared from a club. Most Handlers Spot & Drop, and I do mean most.

Posted by coon dawg on 09-02-2009 03:33 PM:

Re: ! year

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Miller
Heck the way the poll is going, it will be really easy to get 1st on a hound, cause everybody is going to be bared from a club. Most Handlers Spot & Drop, and I do mean most.

.........different for different areas, I guess, Todd.............down here we have alot of Govt. land, and the private land holdings are alot bigger (1000-3000 acres)....................my casts usually only move once in the trucks the entire hunt............rough swamps....but there are some coons...............

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Posted by Todd Miller on 09-02-2009 03:48 PM:

Re: Re: ! year

quote:
Originally posted by coon dawg
.........different for different areas, I guess, Todd.............down here we have alot of Govt. land, and the private land holdings are alot bigger (1000-3000 acres)....................my casts usually only move once in the trucks the entire hunt............rough swamps....but there are some coons...............

Oh I know Hunted down that way in the past and we had a great time. Lot of are spots have some size to them, most are 10 to 20 acre wood lots surrounded by crops.

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