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-- is their a difference between big game breeding and cooners? ABSOLUTELY NOT! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=287507)

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
1- You're right , it doesn't. ALOT of so-called coondogs fall into that category also. More than what folks like to admit. But that doesn't mean that a coondog can't lead the way. Every dog we hunt on bear is hunted on coon also. Including our start dogs. But , because you don't do it , must be nobody else can either. And yeah , I know , our bears aren't as mean as yours , and our terrain ain't as tough as yours , etc , etc. I hear the same excuses all the time. LOL

2- " Good " is a matter of opinion. The dogs I've seen that didn't want to run a bear , for being whipped off or whatever reason , were just the trail-along-behind a coon till he treed. Not a run-to-catch type dog. And what's "double digit" coon kills? 11 or 99 ?

3- Yup , you're right again. BUT , the dogs I've been talking about , treed less than 10 coon each while bear hunting. Again , the ones who do fall off and tree a coon , or go right out and tree a coon , are the ones who don't really make good coondogs either. Yeah , they may tree you some coon. And maybe alot of them. But , they don't make what " I " would call a good one.

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nolte
[B]1-

2. ( I guess I've never heard anyone around here use the term "run to catch" or speed when talking about coon dogs.)

No But I wish breeders were more interested in this, I love a hound that can drive a track, dont care if its about to tree a Coon, Bear, Bobcat, or Bay a Hog.
I hate how alot of the Coondogs, Trail, alot of them will "Trail all night under the shade of an Oak Tree"

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GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

quote:

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Originally posted by Nolte
1- I never said that our bear are meaner, terrain tougher etc. In fact I think most bear are pretty easy. But that isn't what I use as a measuring stick on a bear pack dog. A bear pack dog will stick in on a lengthy tough caught bear and will stay in after getting beat up. Not a high percentage of mainly "coon-bred" dogs will do that. As a note, I don't have a boat load of dogs that fit that bill either.

2. I guess I've never heard anyone around here use the term "run to catch" or speed when talking about coon dogs. It doesn't matter if it takes them 30 seconds or 30 minutes to get there as long as the coon is in the tree. I forgot to put in "per night" in the double digit comment.

3. When you say 10 coon is that total for the two weeks or total for all of them in all the trips. I geneally get on 1-6 coon trees or swamp hole squauls a year. My friend's exceptional coon dog would pull off a jumped hot bear to go find a coon to tree. In her first year she was starting to be a real nice start dog on bear until the piled up the coon with her.

I have tried to use coon hunted dogs as start dogs and it did NOT work out for me at all. It didn't work out for my Dad, my best friend or three other good friends. I also know of about 10-15 other guys who it hasn't worked for either. I have another friend who missed out on his dog being on a 450 lb bear kill because his dog split off on the bait and treed a coon while the others cold trailed out the bear. He missed out on the entire hunt wrangling up his dog.

I generally start out my dogs on coon to fire them up, maybe get a nice short run/tree and then they aren't run on them after that. It's all a matter of preference for me. I bear hunt 50-60 days a year and coon hunt 1-2. Pretty simple math for me.

I've gotten pups out of NiteCh this/that which were also pretty good country type coon dogs. I've never had one that ever made what I consider a good bear dog, so why keep trying it.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Nethery
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nolte
[B]........... I love a hound that can drive a track, dont care if its about to tree a Coon, Bear, Bobcat, or Bay a Hog.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by jackbob42
In a way , I hope you get to hunt with one that can drive a cold track just like a hot one.
But , then again , I hope you don't too. Because then you'd be spoiled like I was. That's why it's so hard to find a dog to please me.
When I say " track-driver " , I'm talking hot or cold. The only way you can tell the difference between a hot track and a cold one is the sound of your dogs bark. Not the speed at which they are moving.

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Home of
Log Woods Chester, Treeing Walker,

GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

Re: grub , flip/flop too?!?!

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Originally posted by ronald schultz
i bet you could take some pretty good bear dogs and you would see a big perc. that wouldn't be real good coondogs?!thats what i am getting at also, breed to make them all GOOD DOGS!!.........Karl, you had really good blue fem. a few years ago that you liked alot on both, am i right ? morgan maybe?

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Karl & Nik Seilenbinder
Coney River Kennels

maybe!?!?

got back from bear hunting up north with Dave Samuel and his Big Timber Redbones. He has registered dogs (mostly), but no titled dogs. Dave hunts for a living. He told me once that to make a top dog in his kennel, that dog needs to be convinced he is at the top of the food chain. Here is Maxx treed solo on a bear the first day.

................GrNtCh Dawn's Timber Jack
.......GrNtCh To The Maxx
................GrNtCh Jenkin's Cryin Katie
Maxx
................Gr.Nt.Ch. Little Pepper
.......GrNtCh Pepper Ann
................GrNtCh Moonlight Kate

So this just goes to show that a titled dog can hold its own in the back yard too. Good luck with whatever you decide. This thread just goes to show that no matter how hard you try to prove your yourself and dogs- there will always be guys there to criticize you. Mark asked what you all thought about the cross he's planning. He didn't ask anyone's thoughts on breeding for titles only.




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hey guys I just had to add my pennys worth here! lol, I am first a coondog man, I breed and competition hunt treeing walkers, I have a 9year old Grchnite actually he is dual, anyway this old hound was a straight cooner from 6weeks old, treed his first coon at just over six weeks, put him in the hunts at 8months old granded him at 14months old,lol, and belive me from all the ribbing I get from my fellow hunters about being deaf, senile, and a little slow in the woods this hound did all the work lol, but he was a straight cooner, never ever that I know of did he open or run anything in the woods but coons, "BUT" and I say But he throwed bear dogs when I bred him people who hunt bear and hogs here in the rough mountains of western N.C. and north GA> came here when they wanted big game dogs,they are all day all nite and 2days after that on bear,lol he only threw 1 straight cooner that I know of and an Indian friend on the Cherokee Res.would not even talk to me when I tried to get him back ! so some one with more knowledge about breeding shed some light here for me, after 30 years of hunting and breeding this strain, I can't figure it out,lol may god bless each and everyone of you fine houndsmen! tc RP,Clayton Ga.

It seems to me, after reading the responses...that JackBob thinks he knows it all.

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Home Of:

NTCH GRCH 'PR' Stylish Dolly
'PR' Bear Brook Midnight Cruiser
'PR' Bear Brook Midnight Dancer

quote:

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Originally posted by mjflores
It seems to me, after reading the responses...that JackBob thinks he knows it all.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

what if the rules are reversed...can bear dogs make good coondogs? the answer is yes. the proof...the lightfoot line.
they can run and tree anything they are trained to run and also do a superb job on coon...you can have both from the same litter...

__________________
Brad Blakeman
NORTHERN LIGHTS ENGLISH


NITECH SILVERTONE REBEL YELL (never forgotten 1/3/10)
NORTHERN LIGHTS SHOOTER
NORTHERN LIGHTS SHIFTER
if it aint broke, fix it till it is...

There are alway's exception's to every rule.I don't think that anybody is saying that there has never been a good coondog that made a good bear dog.One of our best bear dog's is a direct son of Michigan Swamp Rooster.All I'm saying is that just because you have a gritty coondog,dosen't mean that he is going to make a bear dog.It also dosen't mean that he won't.JMO.

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Its a **** poor woman who cant support a man and a pack of hounds.

http://www.sprucemountainhunting.com

bear stock

I have read a lot of these postings and here is my two cents. A good bear dog can certainly come from good coon stock. I tend to disagree that a bear dog needs a better nose or colder nose than a coon dog. In some areas where bear are harder to find that would be the case, but in areas where bear are all over the place, or run off bait, a hot nosed dog will do just as well as a cold nosed dog. It just all depends on the area. My opinion is to find a dog that has the traits that you personally want and there are particular stud dogs out there that will "throw" better big game hounds than others. Now a great bear dog does have to have some traits not found in all coon stock. A bear will run a loooonnnngggg ways sometimes, and a great bear dog has to have heart, good feet, and stamina to keep going. Also they have to be good tree dogs to hold the bear there till you get there. A good mouth will help tree the bear quicker in my opinion, the more noise they make the quicker the bear seems to tree....just my experience.

Thanks for letting me give my opinion

First I would like to say that I know very little about bear dogs. We just got back from California where we treed 3 bears with dogs that came from Oklahoma and were reject coon dogs. Their main problem was they wouldn't tree good enough for coon.

Re: bear stock

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffdoghunter
I tend to disagree that a bear dog needs a better nose or colder nose than a coon dog. In some areas where bear are harder to find that would be the case, but in areas where bear are all over the place, or run off bait, a hot nosed dog will do just as well as a cold nosed dog.

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12 times out of 10 I want the coldest dog I can get my hands on.

I don't think that is the case for a lot of guys that coon hunt to win hunts.


yup - BUT


i think sometimes , dogs that win hunts have that little extra desire -

this translates into more speed , colder nose-


ive seen coon bred dogs make great bear dogs - seen more that didnt , lol
ive seen dogs that were bred for generations for bear dogs improve with some "coon dog " added


chief lipper , spring creek rock , tar rattler yadkin river jeff- clover . are a few i can think of - i look for those "coon dogs "in a bear dogs pedigree.

those are long dead but id bet theres some more modern ones i dont know about -

most dogs no matter how they are bred ,dont make great beardogs -or wrld ch coondogs -
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glad i started thius , not alot of input but some perty darn good i believe

i am really enjoying the responses!! THANKS ALOT GUYS!! pete from what i ahve seen in the walkers i have or HAVE HUNTED WITH THOSE ARE ALOT OF WHAT I HOPE TO HAVE ATLEAST SOME SPECKS OF BLOOD FROM. i have the cheif , lipper spring creek rock. have a good friend with a strong yadkin tar/jeff blooded young male thats gonna get ta visit here in the next year or so if i can get caught up on my dog responsbilities... happy huntin to pete and everyone , ITS FALL ,LOVE IT!!!!