UKC Forums - rule question

Pages (2): « 1 [2]
Show all 44 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Beagles (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=3)
-- rule question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=280444)

Posted by tjcrewse on 06-12-2009 04:45 PM:

The Thing I HATE about Hunting beagle is it aint usually the best hound that Wins just the lucky Dog..
you Know the one that Stays back for 3 min then goes in for 30 seconds just to come out again. or the one that SKIRTS the pack just to get to the front!! and Cross the line first..the same hound that only Ran about a 3rd of the track while the others did all the Work...

__________________
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

Posted by M and M KENNELS on 06-12-2009 07:00 PM:

This post was started about a rule question and discusion. Not about a big nose or a hot nose dog. Or why we like or dislike a perticular format.

There are going to be differences that's why there are to different formats. If we want to talk about that let's start a different thread. (Although I don't think its a good idea)

I just don't see how this rule is helping the beagle breed. There has be metion of seeing it both ways and that's not right.

The rule is the clock stops when striking in, But when those same dogs go in check and clock is running and dogs are barking now your wanting dogs to make movement this just dosent make sense. I have not looked it up my self yet (due to moving and don't know where my rules are)

I would like to hear from UKC on why this is.

Also I would like to hear from Big River Beagles and hear what the MOH did.

__________________
Travis McCarthy
mccarthysroofing@att.net
317-563-2949

M and M Beagles

Home of
2006 PP World Hunt 5th place
2008 PP Nationals Grand Class Winner
2008 PP World Hunt 8th place
GRPCH HBCH M and M's Diamond in the Ruff (RIP)

2009 PP Nationals Grand Class Winner
2011 PP Nationals Grand Class Winner
2011 PP World Hunt 3rd place
NBPPA HOF
GRHBCH GRPCH GRCH M and M's Rocky

2012 PP World Hunt 8th place
PCH M and M's Abby

PCH M and M's Little Red

PCH Reinhart's Sizzlin Sadie (RIP)

PCH Glomski's Cody

Posted by JAR242 on 06-12-2009 07:56 PM:

Re: NOSE

quote:
Originally posted by DAVE S
Be careful that you don't breed your dogs into the no nose dogs I see many times. The mouth at times seems tied to the nose. Yes the brain comes in also. But when conditions change and you have a very dry year or dry years watch out. SOME of those "only bark when its up" dogs can't smell anything. I have seen 6 dogs on the ground(while hunting) with one dog "boo hooing" around and no one else barking. Everyone looking on in disgust even the dog owner. That was until the big nose dog kicked out the bunny right in front of everyone. The other dogs could not smell it and we would have never even known it was there. We can get so worried about taking a minus that we keep on breeding the weaker nose to the weaker nose. Sooner or later you have dogs that can only run on the best of days. I have been to the Eliminator a couple times when conditions were bad and a big nose would have been nice to have in the pack. I hate a babbler also but be careful going to far the other way. Our Missouri conditions at times have been tough.

You are right on, problem is people breed to the rules instead of breeding dogs that will do good with the rules provided. TJCrewse, you are right on also.

__________________
Josh Rhinehart
www.rhinosbeagles.com (site down for now)
HBCh Ch Rhino's Daisy 4/6/06 - 1/25/15

Posted by bigriver on 06-12-2009 10:56 PM:

LOTS OF GOOD COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
we did not score it the right way i was the judge and i will admit that i was wrong however we did take a vote and the vote was 3-1 none of the other guys had seen it done any other way
we took it back to the master of hounds and he also agreed with the 3-1 vote
we did not extend the clock both dogs were held accountable for their positions and were minused accordingly
i would like to say also that the way it was scored didnot effect the outcome of the hunt if we would have scored it the right way the results would have been the same
i am glad that this didnot effect anyones hound
thanks for the info and i will know next time
good luck and good runnin to everyone

__________________
TIM & NANCY MARSHALL
bigriverbeagles@yahoo.com bigriverbeagles.com website
BIG RIVER BEAGLES: HOME OF
PCH GRHBCH BIG RIVER SADIE
PCH BIG RIVER MAGGIE
HBCH PCH BIG RIVER JAKE
HBCH BIG RIVER COCO
765-762-2748
765-299-3699 (cell)

Posted by legshaker on 06-13-2009 11:19 PM:

All this talking about big noses has got me thinking your all a bunch of bozos. Every time someone trys to have a simple question answered it always turns into a different subject. If you want to talk about HOW BIG YOUR DOGS NOSE IS , or how your dog craps bigger turds than the other dog START A DIFFERENT THREAD.

Posted by WildMountains on 06-14-2009 03:56 AM:

Rule

Same cast, all dogs are struck in a handler see the rabbit and marks the line all dogs score except for one. Then the cast agrees to PR the track. Now this is another example of how the cast was scored wrong in my eyes. I spoke with a UKC Rep to make sure of this before posting. In the cast they would not give the dog that did not score the line his strike points even though a line was scored and then was agreed to PR (place of refuge) the track. Would like some feedback on this situation. I think the dog that missed the line gets his strike points along with the UKC rep I spoke with. I was told by this person the moment a line scored it is that same as majority of the cast seeing it due to the fact the majority and the judge scored the line. I was told that if you score a line and goes to a PR track then all strike points are plussed. Now if they lose the track then the strike points would not be plussed. Any information would be helpful. I believe I was correct in this situation as well but would like feedback. Thanks for the help.

Gary

__________________
Gary, Elizabeth, Haleigh & Gary Allen Corn

GBHGCountryBeagles.webs.com

HOME OF UKC'S FIRST FIVE WAY CHAMPION (w/ these titles)
NGRC GRCH GRHBCH CCH PCH Crewse-N Country Girls Cleo
HOME OF THE FIRST WHITE RIVER PERFORMANCE PACK CHAMPION
GRPCH GRHBCH GRCH 'PR' White River Indiana Kimba *Ricki*
CH HBCH PCH GBHG Country Keep Fly'n on the Trak
CH HBCH Highbar Sockit Toem Lone Ranger
CH HBCH Red Hot to Service the Queen
CH CCH GBHG Country Look at me again
CCH C Rockin Guns' N Roses

Posted by xdawgbeagles on 06-14-2009 04:41 AM:

REPLY TO GARY

There are only four ways to plus your strike points:

1. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog scores speed and drive.
2. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.
3. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and time runs out in the hunt.
4. Your strike points will be plussed if your dog is struck in and the dogs on that track catch a rabbit

When you say PR i really don't know what you mean but i figure you are talking about handling dogs (must be decided before line is scored).

In this situation the dog that didn't score on the line doesn't meet any of the 4 requirements so it wouldn't plus its strikes.

Jack

__________________
Visit XDawgBeagles.com

Posted by Jeremy Mapes on 06-14-2009 06:27 AM:

I think he means place of refuge and Jack's right the dog that missed the line would not keep his strikes. Allen and Todd singled out this scenario not to long ago on this board and said that scoring a line is not the same as majority seeing the rabbit.

__________________
DCK Labradors and Beagles
Labs-OGF Tucker
DCK Lady Antebellum
DCK Rolling Red Rock
DCK Chocolate Peanut Butter Cup
Beagles- (RIP) FC Buckeyes Big John
HBCH PCH Dry Creek Stroke Of Genius
DCK Bounty Hunter
DCK Queen Of The Cage (Rousey)

Posted by tjcrewse on 06-14-2009 10:42 AM:

I Think PR means place of Refuge....
So in that case Wouldnt #2 apply??

2. Your strike points will be plussed if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.

For those that threw the Hissy l Deleted my Reply.....

quote:
All this talking about big noses has got me thinking your all a bunch of bozos. Every time someone trys to have a simple question answered it always turns into a different subject. If you want to talk about HOW BIG YOUR DOGS NOSE IS , or how your dog craps bigger turds than the other dog START A DIFFERENT THREAD.

Oh And legshaker
KMA

__________________
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

Posted by Jeremy Mapes on 06-14-2009 04:07 PM:

Scoring a line doesn't mean that majority seen the rabbit. One handler could've seen it and nobody else.

Posted by legshaker on 06-14-2009 04:15 PM:

oh and tjcrewse, s.m.d and l. m. b! See you at the westminster show little fella.
p.s brush my dog!

Posted by xdawgbeagles on 06-14-2009 08:44 PM:

Actually...

If PR means place of refuge then you would plus the dog that didn't score on the line.

Because...

UKC has ruled that (after being circled) if a line is call (by a cast member) and its agreed to score the line and the line is scored by alteast one dog then you score it as if the majority has seen it. Keep in mind... Atleast one dog must actually score the line for it to be considered as the majority of the cast having seen the rabbit. (Even though only one person see the rabbit, the majority agrees its a rabbit when they agree to score the line and atleast one scores it.)

Gary, if you meant place of refuge i'm sorry for my earlier answer. If PR means place of refuge, based on everything else Yes you would plus the strikes of the dog that missed the line.

Jack

__________________
Visit XDawgBeagles.com

Posted by Jeremy Mapes on 06-15-2009 01:12 AM:

I copied this from an earlier post made by Allen/ UKC.

Question: On a four-dog cast, all dogs are struck in. The rabbit is completely circled and seen by a cast member. The judge is present as Dogs A, B and C score on the line. Dog D misses the line. On the second circle, a line is marked and the cast agrees to pick the dogs up after they score it. Again, Dogs A, B and C score. Dog D misses it again. How do you score dog D’s strike points?

Answer: The answer to this question is to minus Dog D his strike points. Here is why.

As I have discussed in this column many times before, there are only four ways you can plus your strike points. They are to: 1) score speed and drive; 2) catch a rabbit; 3) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a place of refuge; and 4) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and the time runs out in the hunt. The fact that the other three dogs scored Speed and Drive is not enough to plus Dog D’s strike points. Only those dogs scoring Speed and Drive receive plus strike points. So now we have ruled out plus points.

It is pretty obvious that we cannot score Dog D’s strike points as circle points.

Posted by xdawgbeagles on 06-15-2009 01:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Mapes
I copied this from an earlier post made by Allen/ UKC.

Question: On a four-dog cast, all dogs are struck in. The rabbit is completely circled and seen by a cast member. The judge is present as Dogs A, B and C score on the line. Dog D misses the line. On the second circle, a line is marked and the cast agrees to pick the dogs up after they score it. Again, Dogs A, B and C score. Dog D misses it again. How do you score dog D’s strike points?

Answer: The answer to this question is to minus Dog D his strike points. Here is why.

3) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a place of refuge;

Jeremy,

I agree with everything you copied and pasted that allen said. However, in Gary's situation they handled dogs because of place a refuge (which is scored completely different then agreeing to handle after a line is scored). Thus you plus strikes because of what i said early (pretaining to majority) and a place of refuge being called. In the situation you posted the handlers agreed to pick up not place of refuge so dog D never did anything to plus his strikes.

Jack

__________________
Visit XDawgBeagles.com

Posted by Jeremy Mapes on 06-15-2009 02:24 AM:

Scoring a line is not the same as the majority of the cast seeing a rabbit. One person out of four seeing a rabbit and calling a line is not the majority. It clearly states that majority must **SEE** the rabbit. I know that nobody scores it this way, but if were gonna go by the rulebook this is how it should be scored. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state that scoring a line is the same as majority seeing the rabbit

Posted by xdawgbeagles on 06-15-2009 03:55 AM:

Todd talks about it here:
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...;highlight=line

In this post you even state the rule yourself:
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...;highlight=line

__________________
Visit XDawgBeagles.com

Posted by Jeremy Mapes on 06-15-2009 04:18 AM:

Yes I remember that. Not long after that I was on a cast with Todd where he pointed out to me that rules don't explain it that way. He told me flat out that scoring a line isn't the same as majority. I'm not saying that I agree with the rule, just stating what the rules say. I personally think that if the line was called and the dogs scored on that line that they should all be plus. The dog missing the line has already lost points by not scoring, why punish him again. Maybe this is something that should be sent into the rules commitee for ukc to clarify better in the rulebook.

Posted by WildMountains on 06-15-2009 08:53 PM:

ruling

Todd M / UKC
UKC Board Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: The Great State of Michigan
Posts: 2509

Plus their strike points.

The reason for this is that the majority of the cast and the judge were present to score the line. This verifies the rabbit.

__________________
Work hard and play even harder

here is the ruling was ruled on a long time ago.

Gary

Posted by WildMountains on 06-18-2009 02:49 AM:

Great thread

I have learned a lot off this thread and want to thank the people that helped out and brought the facts to the table. So we have learned that the clock restarts when another dogs strikes in on the same track. We have also learned that when the cast calls a track PR after scoring a line the strike points are plussed. Thanks again, to everyone.

Gary

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:28 PM.

Pages (2): « 1 [2]
Show all 44 posts from this thread on one page