UKC Forums - Rule Question

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Posted by on 06-03-2009 02:26 PM:

This one has been answered by Todd, answered by Allen and hashed more times on this forum than I can remember. It is really discouraging to think there are still handlers out there that don't know the right way to score this situation.

Posted by GayleFlowers on 06-03-2009 02:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by engman99
Me and Jason Reisert been arguing about this for two weeks.
I said same thing Buckshot did,Reisert said can't scratch if dog arrives after judge.
I need a definate answer before me and Reisert get in a fist fight.

Aaron I think you are smart enough not to start a fight With with The "BULL"

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Posted by Buckshot on 06-03-2009 03:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
This one has been answered by Todd, answered by Allen and hashed more times on this forum than I can remember. It is really discouraging to think there are still handlers out there that don't know the right way to score this situation.

Why Jim?

According to the rule book it states:

(k) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, dog is scratched for running, treeing or molesting off game during the authority of the Judge.

Not every coonhunter gets on the net and comes to the forum......Not every coon hunter reads every post on a forum....not every coon hunter has seen the advisor interpretation of the rule with the added clause that is not in the "Official Rulebook".

That's the problem...........there is no doubt that the rule is pretty clear about off-game.......yet the interpretation of the actual rule with the clause has to be found elsewhere.

That is why there needs some major updating of the Rules Book.

Posted by on 06-03-2009 03:49 PM:

It's true, if you live under a rock you won't know much.

Posted by Buckshot on 06-03-2009 04:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
It's true, if you live under a rock you won't know much.

I call BS and a cheap answer!!!

Perhaps it should be like this after each rule:

(k) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, dog is scratched for running, treeing or molesting off game during the authority of the Judge.**

**Be sure to scour our Message Forum, Bloodlines, and etc... for the correct interpretation of the rule or your living under a rock as our "Official Rulebook" isn't worth a ****.

Posted by on 06-03-2009 04:11 PM:

Engman, you can click this thread and Allen answers your question at the bottom of the thread.
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...ighlight=possum

Posted by jculler8 on 06-03-2009 04:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
I call BS and a cheap answer!!!

Perhaps it should be like this after each rule:

(k) In Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts, dog is scratched for running, treeing or molesting off game during the authority of the Judge.**

**Be sure to scour our Message Forum, Bloodlines, and etc... for the correct interpretation of the rule or your living under a rock as our "Official Rulebook" isn't worth a ****.

you got it Drew! haha.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 06-03-2009 09:44 PM:

Its because they give the dog benefit of doubt..They think he may have came in to the cast being at the tree. To me this one makes a heck of alot more sence than it used to be you could not minus a dog that had been shutout on strike even though the 8 caught it and it was .5 a mile from the place where the other dog treed..Now thats stupid

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Posted by jawscardodger on 10-01-2009 04:25 PM:

Does anyone know what page of the advisor this is on?

Posted by blueticker on 10-01-2009 06:40 PM:

Dog D is not scratched.

A couple other situations with slick tails. Nt Ch's ran a track hard for 3/4 miles and all four hounds just blowed up treed. All that was seen during shine time was the opposum and all were scratched. Seen the coon after time was up. I sure made three other hunters very upset when we headed to the club house.

Nt Ch cast where the dog leading the cast grabbed sammy while on the lead walking out. That guy was scratched and not a happy camper.

This one was great and I loved it. Nt Ch cast where three dogs got treed mine included. Dog 4 was a blue dog bringing up the rear. It took him almost the full time to bark close to the tree. He was finally treed. As soon as he barked a few times on the tree two hounds left the tree and dog 4 quit barking also. We went to mine still treed. Blue was chewing on a possum right at the base of the tree and Echo had the coon. I am sure the dogs that left thought they were in trouble and blue was scratched. I really enjoyed the moment even though the blue dogs took a tounge lashing.

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Posted by SoSh on 10-01-2009 07:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
This one has been answered by Todd, answered by Allen and hashed more times on this forum than I can remember. It is really discouraging to think there are still handlers out there that don't know the right way to score this situation.

jim what you have to remember is that it takes time and practice to learn how to correctly apply the rules. after about 100 cast, people should start to figure out the rules. if they last that long.

Posted by Todd Miller on 10-01-2009 11:49 PM:

i have been only been signed up on here short while, I am sorry for repeating a question. Seems like you guys would understand there is new people signing up here everyday. Besides I asked the same questions on 9//30/09

Posted by jculler8 on 10-02-2009 04:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jawscardodger
Does anyone know what page of the advisor this is on?

hahahhahahahhahaha what a joke!

how much do those cost?

do proceeds go to youth hunters????

Posted by Cornbelt on 10-02-2009 05:59 AM:

The rule that saves the dog from being scratched is on the back of the card.

Rule 5(b)
No dog to receive minus points for coming into tree after judge has arrived unless a coon is seen and dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

The advisor basicly stated that if you can't minus a dog in that circumstance then you shouldn't scratch it either.

So really to fix the rule it should just read like this.

No dog to receive minus points (or be scratched for off game) for coming into the tree after judge arrives unless a coon is seen and dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

The answers are in the rules. Not all of then are clear or stated exactly as is the case here. However IMO UKC's interpretation in regard to coming into off game after judge has arrived does make sense.

Here is another rule that everyone knows how to handle but has the same loopholes 6(k) the off game scratch rule.

4(b)Points will be minus when cast can plainly see no coon is there.
You look up no coon so you minus it right? Well what if there is a hole? You can't see a coon and the rules say to minus it. However like 6(k) there is an exception to this rule as well. That exception is rule 5(a) circle points when there could be a coon. Since this happens frequently everyone knows how to handle it. Rule 6(k) also has an exception but it is not as common so people choose not to look for it or don't know it exists.

Hopefully UKC can add a few words to the rule and eliminate any interpretation.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-02-2009 12:30 PM:

rules

a new advisor is being worked on and i am sure a lot of your "concerns" will be addressed. I guess the thing thatconcerns me a little here is the way we are bashing the rule book. For me, i hunt in all 3 kc's, and yes, the other two have their problems with the rule interputations also. what's written, and clear in black and white, really is not. AKC- Can't strike a dog inside the first minute without treeing it also at same time. Thats the rule. What happens if you do, NOTHING, but the rule doesn't say that. it is simply a no call. PKC- question taken back to panel, that requires panel to go to woods to get it right. Book says you have the right to question. What happens when you do in above? Answer, per PKC leadership, someone will get barred. Does the book say that ? NO! Yes the UKC may need some tweaking, and they are open to such, but you don't see many people barred for using a rule to question a call. Sure the AKC example above in trival, the PKC not so, but the point is, they all have some things that are not as they seem, or as they or written, but to say we should throw the rules away? Wouldn't that be kinda like getting elected to congress? Now would we really want that kind of mess in our woods?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 10-02-2009 06:20 PM:

What we need to do is either go by the RULE book or the advisor one..I've never even saw an advisor..Maybe they should put a copy of it on line..Since it seems the advisor is the law of the land nowdays!!!

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Posted by SLICK50 on 10-02-2009 06:32 PM:

The problem is they tweak the rules (which im all for) but what about the many (most) people that haven't seen these knew rules??????? And then they want to yell, scream, and argue till there blue in the face!!

If there going to change rules which again im all for the changing of certain rules, they need to make sure the word gets out there.

Posted by jculler8 on 10-03-2009 04:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
What we need to do is either go by the RULE book or the advisor one..I've never even saw an advisor..Maybe they should put a copy of it on line..Since it seems the advisor is the law of the land nowdays!!!

CHA CHING!!!!!!

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