UKC Forums - Fighting Dogs

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-- Fighting Dogs (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=265406)

Posted by Screaming Scar on 03-23-2009 11:51 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Fighting Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
The speech they gave at the World hunt in 2006 was "You must have agressive behavior and interference with another dogs ability to tree."

Same speach I heard.

EXAMPLE:
2 dogs start rolling, both started it at the same time. The other 2 dogs stand there & tree. Break them up, score your tree, presume hunting.

NO INTERFERANCE = NO SCRATCH.

If 1 dog would have shy`d away, took off, stopped treeing or anything else that stopped the dogs from doing what they do.... then you have INTERFERENCE.

INTERFERENCE = SCRATCH.

Posted by Jason Payne on 03-24-2009 12:15 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Fighting Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Scar
Same speach I heard.

EXAMPLE:
2 dogs start rolling, both started it at the same time. The other 2 dogs stand there & tree. Break them up, score your tree, presume hunting.

NO INTERFERANCE = NO SCRATCH.

If 1 dog would have shy`d away, took off, stopped treeing or anything else that stopped the dogs from doing what they do.... then you have INTERFERENCE.

INTERFERENCE = SCRATCH.

6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:
(b) Fighting or attempting to fight .......
(c) Attempting to fight is defined as follows: when dog(s) are interfering with other dog(s) during the authority of the Judge by aggressive behavior.

The rule has two parts: Part 1)"FIGHTING" OR Part 2)"ATTEMPTING TO FIGHT"....

Dogs Rolling are Fighting, so they will be Scratched under part 1 of the rule. You don't even need to worry about "interfering" they are flat out fighting.

The "INTERFERENCE" part only comes into play if you are trying to figure out if a dog is "ATTEMPTING TO FIGHT" through aggressive behavior. For example if you go into a tree and a dog chases another dog away (and you see the whole thing), that dog is "attempting to fight" and is "interfering", and could be scratched under Part 2 of the rule...

I may be wrong, but this is the way I've always seen the rule applied...

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Posted by all-state58 on 03-24-2009 01:34 AM:

When I saw them scratched one dog was growling at the other on the lead and to me that is aggressive behavior. The aggresive dog was staring down the other and it had no intentions of going hunting. Thats where the interference would be.

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Posted by EARL BINGHAM on 03-24-2009 02:36 AM:

fighting

john247 how do you scratch a dog BEFORE the score card is handed out???????????? the hunt has not started.i agree a dog should be written up for fighting and NOT ALLOWED to be withdrawn ,BUT BEFORE THE JUDGE HAS THE SCORE CARD, i don't think so.

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Posted by all-state58 on 03-24-2009 02:46 AM:

The scorecard was handed out in our case. we were in the woods getting ready to make our first drop. I agree if the scorecard isn't in the judges hand then the judge has no authority.

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Posted by Loren Simpson on 03-24-2009 06:03 AM:

I aint no kinda comp hunter but I'll cull (kill) a dog for wanting to fight quicker than a heartbeat and then ya dont have to frett and worry about getting scratched or minus pts..

if it aint the kinda dog you'd hunt with a pup or young dog it aint a TRUE B&T coonhound..IMHO

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Posted by JOE EMBRY on 03-24-2009 04:28 PM:

I SENT THE ORIGINAL QUESTION TO TODD KELLUM AND THIS WAS HIS REPLY SO IT IS COMING STRAIGHT FROM THE TOP

Yes! On the chain, in the dog box, etc. Doesn't matter. Zero tolerance. It's a during the authority of the judge offense. If you know the aggressor, they are to be scratched.

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Posted by John247 on 03-24-2009 04:49 PM:

Earl...

The dogs scratched for fighting before the cards are handed out were from formal complaints....Dogs were entered in the hunt but got into a fight on the grounds. Handlers came in and asked to file a formal complaint which anyone can do for anything they don't agree with...Panel was assembled, witnesses heard and dog was SFF and written up.....When you are at a UKC hunt you are under their rules the minute you set foot on the grounds. The judge takes charge when he gets the scorecard and has authority until he turns it in......A person can be written up for fighting, cussing or drinking on the grounds of a UKC hunt before or after the hunt, just as a dog can be written up for fighting, whether it's in the woods, dogbox, on a chain or on a lead.....If you have a mean dog, do us all a favor and don't bring it to a hunt.

Posted by RANDAL BROWN on 03-24-2009 05:58 PM:

john247, say your driving down the road, two dog,s start growing in box, do both dog,s get sff

Posted by John247 on 03-24-2009 07:31 PM:

Growling or Fighting...

There is a difference between growling and fighting...If a fight breaks out in the box you are subject to being scratched. Usually the handlers break it up and agree no harm no foul, as they know both will be SFF if something is made of it.... Personally I NEVER put my dog in a box with another dog, especially two males, but females can be bad too. You are asking for trouble by putting two dogs in the same side. The dogs are keyed up and sometimes one growl will start it...If you have to cut down to one vehicle when you get to the hunting area, ride on the back and hold your dog....

Posted by Cody Carroll on 03-24-2009 11:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by all-state58
When I saw them scratched one dog was growling at the other on the lead and to me that is aggressive behavior. The aggresive dog was staring down the other and it had no intentions of going hunting. Thats where the interference would be.

growling is agressive behavior but, it IS NOT interference. next hunt your at listen to the master of hounds when he reads the checklist. YOU MUST HAVE BOTH AGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR AND INTERFERENCE TO SCRATCH A DOG FOR FIGHTING. growling, face barking, ect. are not scratchable offenses

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 03-24-2009 11:57 PM:

Where's the UKC? We're waiting...

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Posted by joseph mcdonald on 03-25-2009 12:08 AM:

I dont know , but cody carrols line at the end of his posts flat cracks me up!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats awesome Cody.

Posted by Cody Carroll on 03-25-2009 12:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
I dont know , but cody carrols line at the end of his posts flat cracks me up!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats awesome Cody.

ha ha. thanks man

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 03-25-2009 12:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cody Carroll
growling, face barking, ect. are not scratchable offenses

I disagree... they are scratchable offences if they interfere with a dogs ability to tree.

Posted by joseph mcdonald on 03-25-2009 12:17 AM:

All this info is great, but come on guys it depends on the judge and the cast, what they'll put up with and what they wont.

Posted by Mule Barn on 03-25-2009 12:29 AM:

I say let em fight till all are dead but the winner, then reward him for the win with a bullet between the eyes.

If everybody culled mean dogs, we wouldnt have this problem.

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 03-25-2009 12:39 AM:

Everybody Disregard, MULE BREATHE'S post, he's just repeating something he read somewhere.

Posted by GA DAWG on 03-25-2009 12:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
I disagree... they are scratchable offences if they interfere with a dogs ability to tree.

YEP...

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Posted by Rip on 03-25-2009 01:20 AM:

John D and the others saying anytime under the authority of the judge are correct.

the rule states FIGHTING OR ATTEMPTING TO FIGHT, two seprate things.

If the dog is fighting, it's gone, no question about it. Dogs are scratched for fighting.

They are also scratched for attempting to fight, and that's where the definition comes in. The defintion of attempting to fight is agressive behavior AND interferance (not just with treeing but with hunting etc, any interferance).

The rules also clearly state under the authority of the judge, and the authority of the judge is defined as the time the judge gets the scorecard till it is turned back in so YES, fighting on the leash, in the dog box, parking lot ANY FIGHTING and the agressor is scratched, if no agressor known then all dogs involved.

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Posted by MikeO on 03-25-2009 01:24 AM:

really y'all need gfults to clear all this stuff up........ he is the expert on this topic.

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Posted by all-state58 on 03-25-2009 02:12 AM:

interference

if a dog is more interested in fighting than hunting, then it is interfereing with the rest of the cast that is trying to hunt. It all depends on the judge, but if i'm judging then it would be scratched and if u don't like it then u could take it up with the MOH. I'm not saying to scratch them for growling once. alot of judges would issue a warning for the first instance. There is no need for mean dogs and if don't have the heart to cull them, bring them to me.

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Posted by Kenneth Tavares on 03-25-2009 02:33 AM:

Re: interference

quote:
Originally posted by all-state58
alot of judges would issue a warning for the first instance.

I've never seen the word warning written anywhere in the fighting section of the UKC rules.

Posted by ringtail on 03-25-2009 03:35 AM:

if cards have already been handed to the judge, YES...... if cards have not been handed out, NO.......

I would say if the dog hadn't been entered yet, they could refuse entry...... what's ur opinion?????

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Posted by ringtail on 03-25-2009 03:44 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mule Barn
I say let em fight till all are dead but the winner, then reward him for the win with a bullet between the eyes.

If everybody culled mean dogs, we wouldnt have this problem.

Hmmmm

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Everybody Disregard, MULE BREATHE'S post, he's just repeating something he read somewhere.

I don't know, sounds like he has a good idea........

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