UKC Forums - Babbling junk , Get Rid of it

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-- Babbling junk , Get Rid of it (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=264175)

Posted by josh on 03-17-2009 06:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
I agree but the minute actually ENCOURAGES people to hunt babblers because it allows them to get far enough out to create doubt. This doubt is what makes it hard to get a vote from even honest handlers.

It was much, much easier to do away with the babblers when we didn't have a minute that allowed them to babble without penalty.

While there were still some babblers, the rules encouraged breaking the dog from babbling. Now the minute rewards babblers by making it much harder to get rid of them, allowing the handler to "keep that hunnerd withem" till they need it.

I agree, More often than not it isnt obvious enough to minus...even when it is, its tough to get a majority vote.

The minnute is one of the worst rule changes ever...IMO.

Posted by blueticker on 03-17-2009 06:46 PM:

If UKC was to change there minute rule to no barking off the lead, how much money would they not collect from the babblers? Has anyone quit going to hunts because of babblers?

Most coon hunters don't get upset about a hound barking for a few times off the lead. The reason for that is ol tight lips may do it when hunted with the right hound. When there struck in on a babble or never shut up it's a different story.

What bothers me worse is the free barker that runs junk that you can't get minused or scratched. There an artist at switching tracks and can flat tree a coon. They strike a yote or deer and smash it for 3/4 and blow up treed. ouch!!!

Now is the time you start bringing rule changes up at your association meetings. Rally the troops, get the ducks in a row and get the association leadership to propose the rule change.

Remember your next world ch may bark a time or two off the lead with the right competition. You may be hunting alone if the rule is too stiff.

Posted by Dbradbury3 on 03-21-2009 01:47 PM:

Is babbling a genetic trait or is it just different for each hound, i would say that it is genetic and there are to many people breeding for off the lead strap hounds. which i can't stand

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Posted by wayne f on 03-22-2009 12:16 AM:

babbling isn't always an inherited trate or it would be hard to break them of this habit and i haven't seen many that can't be broken off it. honesty of the handler is a big part if the hound is broken of it or not

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Posted by 2lookindown on 03-22-2009 01:19 AM:

Babbling!!!!

I don't think it is a trait that dogs throw at all. I think that some dogs are just keyed up and hyper on the lead. If you consider running off of the lead and barking for maybe 30 seconds babbling. Then my dog is guilty. But the only thing wrong with him is that he is keyed up and hyper. He is not even 2 years old yet and he strikes and trees coons. Actually last night in a ukc hunt I took third strike every time. So if you wouldn't hunt a young dog that is keyed up that babbles for maybe 30 seconds and then straightens up and goes and trees coons then that is your loss!!!! If you count this against a young dog then I don't understand!!!!

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Posted by coonhuntercp on 03-22-2009 01:35 AM:

I have a buddy that had an old redbone that would bark about 5 times off the lead, run around a little, take a whizz, come back to him and then go out and hunt. The other dogs always took out in a straight line. Than old Jake would go out and strike and tree coons behind the other dogs. The other guys in the cast hated it so they minused him every drop after that. He ended up getting scratched for being minused three times. He would have ended up with 950 plus points and would have won the whole darn hunt. Needless to say that was his first and last nite hunt.

I personally don't have a problem with a dog that barks a couple of times off the lead, but I don't like the ones that never shut up until they tree.

Posted by Rip on 03-22-2009 01:42 AM:

Re: Babbling!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by 2lookindown
I don't think it is a trait that dogs throw at all. I think that some dogs are just keyed up and hyper on the lead. If you consider running off of the lead and barking for maybe 30 seconds babbling. Then my dog is guilty. But the only thing wrong with him is that he is keyed up and hyper. He is not even 2 years old yet and he strikes and trees coons. Actually last night in a ukc hunt I took third strike every time. So if you wouldn't hunt a young dog that is keyed up that babbles for maybe 30 seconds and then straightens up and goes and trees coons then that is your loss!!!! If you count this against a young dog then I don't understand!!!!

If that's all it is, BREAK IT. There's nothing to understand. Babbling is babbling and it's a fault. Break it from the habit, or wait until it's mature enough to not do it before you enter it in the hunts. All dogs don't do this and on the contrary, if you think you have to put up with that then it's your loss. Nobody is talking about a dog that will occasionally bark once or twice. We are talking about babbling. More that a bark or two is too much.

Hopefully you won't turn out like some of the others and only strike honest when it's convienent and then when you need that first strike to get the win strike on the babble.

That's the only reason I can think of not to break a young dog from babbling, so you can use it to cheat with later on.

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Posted by chi chi on 03-22-2009 02:31 AM:

babblers

maybe you put in the rules a strike cant be scored until after the first minute wouldnt that get you a more honest strike?that way they couldnt strike them right off the lead .

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Posted by jackbob42 on 03-22-2009 04:29 AM:

Re: Re: Babbling!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
....... More that a bark or two is too much.

Any dog that barks before it smells a coon is babbling. Whether it's one bark or a dozen.
I don't comp. hunt , but I still hate babblers !

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Posted by Rip on 03-22-2009 04:45 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Babbling!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
Any dog that barks before it smells a coon is babbling. Whether it's one bark or a dozen.
I don't comp. hunt , but I still hate babblers !

Agreed, but a dog that barks once or twice on rare occasion isn't what people are talking about here.

I have a few "cullable" faults, and babbling is one of them (no cull to me isn't always a lead pill it's just culled from my yard one way or another).

I don't want one to say anything unless it is on a coon, that way whether she strikes on the leash, in the light or in a quarter when she opens her mouth I know I can put her on the card and know she is on a track.

But that's neither here nor there as we were talking about babblers that destroy nite hunts, one that only has 2 off barks all night long on all drops combined isn't going to be stealing many undeserved strike points so that's not what we were talking about.

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Posted by 2lookindown on 03-22-2009 06:29 AM:

They put the minute rule in the night hunt to protect the babbling dog.... Especially the ones that only bark for 30 or 45 seconds.... I don't think you can break all dogs from babbling. I have tried breaking mine and he does not do it all of the time.. He is just hyper and ready to go!!! Usually if he does it at all he will do it on the first drop!!! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I have honestly not seen very many babbling dogs in the night hunts!!!!

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Posted by JefferyAntes on 03-22-2009 07:23 AM:

A whimper or wine or even alittle bump off the lead,Heck I want him to do it ,drive and desire there need it, I understand about a dog barking none stop , but come on None not at all give me a freaking break,isn't what matters is that Hard drive in and locate and whats above them when you get there,Darn.

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Posted by DEMODOG1 on 03-22-2009 07:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JefferyAntes
A whimper or wine or even alittle bump off the lead,Heck I want him to do it ,drive and desire there need it, I understand about a dog barking none stop , but come on None not at all give me a freaking break,isn't what matters is that Hard drive in and locate and whats above them when you get there,Darn.

AGREED!!! i think we should be more concernd about the junk runners!! how many of you have seen a dog get scratched for running fast game in a hunt??????maybe we should start worring bout the winy cry baby handlers that wont take minus and make 3 other handlers nite hunt misarable just to pick everything apart cause they think they got cheated cause they dont like a rule??? if a LITTLE babbling has you all stirred up i wanna start comin to your hunts cause you got life by the balls!!!!

Posted by Rip on 03-22-2009 01:39 PM:

It isn't "a little babblin" that has anybody concerned.

The exact point is BABBLERS SHOULD NOT BE PROTECTED. The minute rule is almost the same as saying "ok, dogs can tree 1 possum and slick 1 time per drop and not get minused".

You are actually allowing a dog to break the rules for 1 minute each drop.

Even still, if this were all there was to it it wouldn't be a big deal. So you have to listen to a rattle headed idiot every drop. No problem.

Where the problem comes in is that a great many of them that I have hunted with use that to "carry a hunnerd with em" and pull it out to use it when they need points. Sometimes it gets so bad the owner actually starts to believe that his dog is a great strike dog and has to be smelling a coon the others can't (even if you were to send him down a deserted blacktop to prove it and have him bark every breath).

Since the rule change babbling has become an epidemic.

The only time it's fun to draw out with a bunch of babblers is when we do turn out on one hot and my dog strikes as soon as I turn her loose. You never heard the like of the whining "hey you struck under the minute, you can't do that" and on and on. I just look at them and say "my dog don't babble, she's really struck when she opens her mouth." That usually shuts em up cause they know that while theres have been rattlin every drop all night mine hasn't.

The fact that UKC changed a rule and started allowing and ENCOURAGING illegal behavior from the dogs is a big pet peeve of mine. I like UKC and it is honestly my favorite KC to hunt. I will follow their rules 100% to the best of my ability because they are the boss, it's their club. BUT, I will voice my displeasure at allowing dogs to break the rules for one minute each drop every chance I get because I am old enough to have seen the deteroration of the hunts since that rule has been implemented.

I voice my displeasure of this not because I don't want to listen to it, but because anyone that has been around hounds long enough knows that UKC rules shapes the kind of dogs bred and this particular rule will make it harder for me to find a dog that don't babble in the future because this rule PROMOTES babbling.

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Posted by DEMODOG1 on 03-22-2009 03:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
It isn't "a little babblin" that has anybody concerned.

The exact point is BABBLERS SHOULD NOT BE PROTECTED. The minute rule is almost the same as saying "ok, dogs can tree 1 possum and slick 1 time per drop and not get minused".

You are actually allowing a dog to break the rules for 1 minute each drop.

Even still, if this were all there was to it it wouldn't be a big deal. So you have to listen to a rattle headed idiot every drop. No problem.

Where the problem comes in is that a great many of them that I have hunted with use that to "carry a hunnerd with em" and pull it out to use it when they need points. Sometimes it gets so bad the owner actually starts to believe that his dog is a great strike dog and has to be smelling a coon the others can't (even if you were to send him down a deserted blacktop to prove it and have him bark every breath).

Since the rule change babbling has become an epidemic.

The only time it's fun to draw out with a bunch of babblers is when we do turn out on one hot and my dog strikes as soon as I turn her loose. You never heard the like of the whining "hey you struck under the minute, you can't do that" and on and on. I just look at them and say "my dog don't babble, she's really struck when she opens her mouth." That usually shuts em up cause they know that while theres have been rattlin every drop all night mine hasn't.

The fact that UKC changed a rule and started allowing and ENCOURAGING illegal behavior from the dogs is a big pet peeve of mine. I like UKC and it is honestly my favorite KC to hunt. I will follow their rules 100% to the best of my ability because they are the boss, it's their club. BUT, I will voice my displeasure at allowing dogs to break the rules for one minute each drop every chance I get because I am old enough to have seen the deteroration of the hunts since that rule has been implemented.

I voice my displeasure of this not because I don't want to listen to it, but because anyone that has been around hounds long enough knows that UKC rules shapes the kind of dogs bred and this particular rule will make it harder for me to find a dog that don't babble in the future because this rule PROMOTES babbling.

if ukc shapes the kind of dogs bein bred wich i comletly agree! and that would be why there are so many mee tooing idiots in the hunts that can come in and tree 4 minutes and 59 seconds after a dog did all the work and get 75 tree points!And you really think babbling is hurting how dogs are bred????

Posted by on 03-22-2009 04:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip

The fact that UKC changed a rule and started allowing and ENCOURAGING illegal behavior from the dogs is a big pet peeve of mine. I like UKC and it is honestly my favorite KC to hunt. I will follow their rules 100% to the best of my ability because they are the boss, it's their club. BUT, I will voice my displeasure at allowing dogs to break the rules for one minute each drop every chance I get because I am old enough to have seen the deteroration of the hunts since that rule has been implemented.

I voice my displeasure of this not because I don't want to listen to it, but because anyone that has been around hounds long enough knows that UKC rules shapes the kind of dogs bred and this particular rule will make it harder for me to find a dog that don't babble in the future because this rule PROMOTES babbling.

I'm with ya on this part! Personally I would much rather see the initial three minute/first dump thing like it was instead of this free tongue'n option on every turn out. There was three & four fold more hound's entered then than there is now so I don't think a rule change would effect the participation or does it?

I spectated on a few pkc hunt's in the last couple year's. One night at a state run off I finally after several turnout's had to ask the magic question as to "Y" all four dog's where cuttin loose yet nobody would strike till the allotted time was up ?

The reply's where less than steller response' but I knew & got the jist of it prior to asking.

For decade's breeder's have been & will continue to breed around the rule's. I've heard it from respected genetic mixer's for year's with my own ear's numerous time's.

It's not "UKC's" fault in regards to all the rule changes pertaining to unsnappin fido. Your respective breed representative's have a voice & that's what they are there for.

The me too'n is another example without question. I would really like to see a declining tree rule as well. Give the dog doin the job the benefit & credit.

Either way loose lippin has been & alway's will be a pet peave of mine,to each their own I reckon................

Posted by HrdStrknKennels on 03-23-2009 12:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by coon dog junky
how many of you remember the days when we always tried to break the babblers, those were the good days!

i still break them. i dont want to hear it when i pleasure hunt and im not gonna listen to it on a nite hunt either

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Posted by MikeO on 03-23-2009 12:27 AM:

im gonna own me a (first strike) dog someday.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-23-2009 12:38 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeO
im gonna own me a (first strike) dog someday.

They are harder to make than you think..I've tried it

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Posted by MikeO on 03-23-2009 12:50 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
They are harder to make than you think..I've tried it

shhhh, i think we should combine our vast knowledge and figure out how to do it then we can RULE THE NITEHUNTS and become wealthy men.

Posted by Les Young on 03-23-2009 02:19 AM:

I'm with Rip Here

I have a very good freind that has a dog that in 3 months time is NtCh wuth 3 wins. This dog is absolutley the dog runningest thing I've ever saw. He says she's not rattling. The funny thing is that by herself she opens just about right, but turn a fast breaking dog loose with her & she gets out of sight & opens & never shuts up. I will say she can tree a lot of coon, but is the dog runningest thing i've ever saw & hate her & you couldn't pay me good money to take a pup out of her. Babbling is babbling anyway you go & in my opinion they should either be broke or in her case culled the old fashion way. If you hunt & strike a babbling idiot your absolutley a cheater, unless of course your honest & don't strike them when you know they're doing it. Well how about it?? Are you honest or a cheat??? I know without a doubt when i strike mine they're on a track. Maybe not always the right kind of track, but definitley not opening behind dogs. Oh & i've never saw one I couldn't break from babbling & you can to with consistency & Tri-Tronics

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Posted by jackbob42 on 03-23-2009 02:32 AM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Babbling!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
Agreed, but a dog that barks once or twice on rare occasion isn't what people are talking about here.

I understand that , but where do you think it all started?
First they say one or two barks is ok. Then , four or five is OK. Then you end up where we are today.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

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