UKC Forums - Hey you coonhunt'in bow hunters.

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Posted by JefferyAntes on 03-15-2009 02:19 AM:

I'm with Travis practice,practice and o yes PRACTICE!!!!!! I shoot Jennings , why, because comfort to me, I shoot almost daily, snow,rain, wind and heat, I haven't missed or had a bad hit on a deer in years and years . That arrow and sharp board head out of that Jennings kills deer just has fast as any bow out there and I can keep up with anyone on a 3d course,You can give all the name brands you want but the Name does not and will never mean anything, O yes I also shoot a Bear Re curve 55 lbs and take at least 1 deer a year with it, and I do recommend to pick up a recurve or long bow and learn to shoot instinctive. It will help you in the long run.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 03-15-2009 02:25 AM:

Re: facts boys

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
they had to all compete in a test and the x-force smoked them all. its faster, smoother, more energy, and the only bow on the market that can shoot threw the ballistics gell, and i mean all the way threw it and hit the target. its ok if you guys like other bows just don't be telling stories you when you don't know facts.

UK
Its not quiter though LOL......Really I do like em..I like the thought of being able to shoot lower poundage and not having my speed slow down..My next one may be a x force.UNLESS,the new speed demon mathews comes out with is pretty nice..

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Posted by Travis P on 03-15-2009 03:11 AM:

I do like the x-force dont get me wrong BUT IT IS NOT THE FASTEST,QUIETEST, OR MOST EFFICIENT BY ALONG WAYS ANYMORE AND ANYONE THAT WANTS TO BET ME BRING YOUR MONEY AND WE WILL CHRONOGRAPH THEM IN MY BASEMENT WHEN I GET MY MONSTER XLR8. The PSE omen does run second but it is not as, fast or any of the above than the Mathews XLR8. If I was to own another bow brand than the ones I own it would be an elite.

I would really be willing to bet that I shoot bows more than anyone on this forum if not more than the same. I have 7 bows I shoot all of them 100-150 times a night. I feel confident that I can take most any ethical shot a animal gives me from 1-70 yards with any of my bows. I do practice 80 yards in the field but only because I think it helps me stay in good form and it could be mentallybeneficial if the deer or turkey is at a further distance.

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Posted by on 03-15-2009 03:27 AM:

if you had an x-force you could be shooting 100+

Posted by Travis P on 03-15-2009 01:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
if you had an x-force you could be shooting 100+

No you could'nt It doesnt have the effiency to keep enought KE in the arrow. The video you see on the youtube is another pete shepley mind teaser. I talked to him at the ata and asked him about it he said sometimes in business you have to make things look a certain way to sell products. He said that the animal was along ways away but it wasnt 100 yards. I think he said more like 85 yards. and by the way I can take my mathews reezen and aim 5 inches high on my 70 yard pin and hit the target at 100 yards. This year at the ata at the 100 yard broadhead shoot the X forces wasnt even makeing the target. A mathews switchback Ld won it set at 63#

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Posted by coon dawg on 03-15-2009 03:45 PM:

..........

......go and shoot some different models......PARKER LEGEND XP is as good a bow as there is........for ALOT less $$$$ than some.............go to BPS and shoot one.............

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Posted by wade lucking on 03-15-2009 04:07 PM:

just my opinion, find a bow with a brace height of least 7to 8 inches and no less of a 32 inch axle to axle. if you buy a bow that goes 60 to 70 lbs draw weight do not crank it up all the way and shoot till your arms can't take it no more(you will develop bad habits) i'm a pse fan and a huge one at that. i shoot a older pse stingray, it is super smooth to draw and has a solid back wall. some of the new bows draw cycles are rough and take some gettting used too, and when you go to let them down the want to jump at any slight movement.

bows i shot and reccomend for a new archer.

the truth II / bear archery
black ice / diamnond archery

i'm going to make a point and go shoot the new line up of pse, the bow madness bow looks like my next bow, i hope it shoots as good as it sounds.

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Posted by on 03-15-2009 04:17 PM:

travis p

your wrong!!! the x-force produces the most ke on the market, not to mention the fastest fps. and i'm not talking about ibo, i'm talking about conagraph speed.

Posted by mjflores on 03-15-2009 04:28 PM:

First, I dont claim to know it all...or be the worlds most accomplished archer...but:

My preference is Hoyt, I've shot Hoyt for years and have never even entertained the idea of shooting anything else. I've been involved in archery since my 8th birthday when I got my first bow, a recurve...I've bowhunted ever since.

Weight: What I havent seen mentioned here is weight..both bow weight and draw weight. What I look for in a bow is light weight, you'll know what I mean when you're in your tree stand, at a weird angle, and have to hold your bow out but not draw yet for what seems like an eternity...every ounce of weight matters, and hurts in this situation. Look for something light. I also will never use a draw weight any higher that 65 lbs. I dont see the need to have an 80lb. draw weight! Can I pull back an 80 lb. bow? Sure...easily?..yes. Has my 65lb. draw weight blown through every deer I've shot with a bow...YES! Complete pass throughs. 65lb. draw weight is very easy for me to hold back, for a long time and hold before I make a shot. Heavy draw weights are for bragging at the 3D shoots, not for killing stuff if you ask me.

Arrow speed: Dont get hung up on this, it' nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell bows. The slowest longbows have been killing game for thousands of years. It's easy to get wrapped up in the speed game...it's senseless. Show me someone who claims they missed a deer due to arrow speed, and I'll show you a Big Dummy that's great at making excuses.

Practice: Any practice is good...practicing at ground level is WAY over done if you ask me. It's great for making your hold and release instinctive, and for excersising your drawing muscles...but try to practice from elevated platforms. This is really important. Build a platform if you can..15 feet up a tree just to practice from. You can use a treestand, a ladder stand is better since it's easier and quicker to go up and down. You can shoot off your deck if it allows enough elevation. As crazy as it sounds I used to practice out a second story window! Anything to closely replicate hunting from a tree stand.

You're in for allot of fun...enjoy the whole journey of getting started in archery.

Oh, here's 2 more quick pointers that have worked for me. Bow holster..get one! It hangs off your belt in front, and has a pocket that you rest the bottom cam of your bow in. This allows you to hold your bow at "almost" ready to draw position, but takes all the weight of your bow and puts it on the holster leaving your arms fresh and rested. I tried my first one probably 15 years ago, (or more) and will never go back to not using one..ever!

The second, and subject of heated debate...mechanical broadheads. Whatever you decide will kill a deer just fine. Take a good look at Spitfire mechanicals. I tried them when they first came out...I think in 1998?. Fell in love with them. They dont use rubber bands...they lock closed protecting the blades..and you and your gear! I cant tell you how many knuckles...servings, and strings my old muzzy broadheads claimed by cutting stuff they were not supposed to! Spitfires are super safe, you cant cut anything you dont shoot them at! As for people saying they rob impact energy and penetration? I've always gotten complete pass throughs..ever after breaking ribs on both sides of a deer. I've never wanted anything else. The fact that they have the exact same place of impact as your same weight field points means no messing with sites between hunting and practice.

Alright, enough out of me...have fun! Let us know what you get.

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Posted by steint on 03-15-2009 04:52 PM:

bows

It is up to how much u want to spend if ur wanting to spend a little bit get a mathews there really nice jus go to a bow store n shoot a couple c what u like

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Posted by dogfaceNH on 03-15-2009 04:57 PM:

good advice

wade lucking, mjflores - good advise all the way around.

Posted by coon dawg on 03-15-2009 05:00 PM:

.............

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
First, I dont claim to know it all...or be the worlds most accomplished archer...but:

My preference is Hoyt, I've shot Hoyt for years and have never even entertained the idea of shooting anything else. I've been involved in archery since my 8th birthday when I got my first bow, a recurve...I've bowhunted ever since.

Weight: What I havent seen mentioned here is weight..both bow weight and draw weight. What I look for in a bow is light weight, you'll know what I mean when you're in your tree stand, at a weird angle, and have to hold your bow out but not draw yet for what seems like an eternity...every ounce of weight matters, and hurts in this situation. Look for something light. I also will never use a draw weight any higher that 65 lbs. I dont see the need to have an 80lb. draw weight! Can I pull back an 80 lb. bow? Sure...easily?..yes. Has my 65lb. draw weight blown through every deer I've shot with a bow...YES! Complete pass throughs. 65lb. draw weight is very easy for me to hold back, for a long time and hold before I make a shot. Heavy draw weights are for bragging at the 3D shoots, not for killing stuff if you ask me.

Arrow speed: Dont get hung up on this, it' nothing more than a marketing ploy to sell bows. The slowest longbows have been killing game for thousands of years. It's easy to get wrapped up in the speed game...it's senseless. Show me someone who claims they missed a deer due to arrow speed, and I'll show you a Big Dummy that's great at making excuses.

Practice: Any practice is good...practicing at ground level is WAY over done if you ask me. It's great for making your hold and release instinctive, and for excersising your drawing muscles...but try to practice from elevated platforms. This is really important. Build a platform if you can..15 feet up a tree just to practice from. You can use a treestand, a ladder stand is better since it's easier and quicker to go up and down. You can shoot off your deck if it allows enough elevation. As crazy as it sounds I used to practice out a second story window! Anything to closely replicate hunting from a tree stand.

You're in for allot of fun...enjoy the whole journey of getting started in archery.

Oh, here's 2 more quick pointers that have worked for me. Bow holster..get one! It hangs off your belt in front, and has a pocket that you rest the bottom cam of your bow in. This allows you to hold your bow at "almost" ready to draw position, but takes all the weight of your bow and puts it on the holster leaving your arms fresh and rested. I tried my first one probably 15 years ago, (or more) and will never go back to not using one..ever!

The second, and subject of heated debate...mechanical broadheads. Whatever you decide will kill a deer just fine. Take a good look at Spitfire mechanicals. I tried them when they first came out...I think in 1998?. Fell in love with them. They dont use rubber bands...they lock closed protecting the blades..and you and your gear! I cant tell you how many knuckles...servings, and strings my old muzzy broadheads claimed by cutting stuff they were not supposed to! Spitfires are super safe, you cant cut anything you dont shoot them at! As for people saying they rob impact energy and penetration? I've always gotten complete pass throughs..ever after breaking ribs on both sides of a deer. I've never wanted anything else. The fact that they have the exact same place of impact as your same weight field points means no messing with sites between hunting and practice.

Alright, enough out of me...have fun! Let us know what you get.

...................on draw weights and arrow speed..................agree with you 100%........most of it is "macho" crap.................I crank DOWN my bow..it's more important to me to be able to hold at full draw as long as I might need than it is to send the arrow clear through the animal to stick in the ground 6 inches versus 2.......lolololol..............80 or 60, it's goin' through on a good hit.............300FPS????.....I don't need it.........I hunt nasty thickets..........I can only see about 40 yards, shoot 25 or less..........buck really doesn't care if he's hit at 300fps or 280 at that distance.............lolol

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Posted by on 03-15-2009 05:46 PM:

coon dawg

i agree. the kenetic energy is the most important thing to me. i want to shoot threw the deer even at 60 lbs draw weight. thats why i purchased the x-force. it has great ke.

Posted by Travis P on 03-15-2009 06:44 PM:

Re: travis p

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
your wrong!!! the x-force produces the most ke on the market, not to mention the fastest fps. and i'm not talking about ibo, i'm talking about conagraph speed.

Nope I promise you I am not wrong. I shot a pse x-force at 30 inch draw 70# pull 350 grain IBO arrow beside a mathews monster 30 inch draw 70# pull 350 grain arrow a little less than an hour ago at the shop. X-force dream season GX 342 FPS
Mathews monster 351 FPS same arrow same distance from chrono.
Now when the omen and XLR8 come in I will take my easton draw force mapper down and tell you everything about the draws of the bows all the way down to what the draw weight is when the cams reach let off. I will also be shootin the pearson R2B2 in the next week it will prolly be wendsday night at league. It IBO's at 352 and everyone says it also shoots faster than IBO like the monster does.

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Posted by wade lucking on 03-15-2009 07:49 PM:

doesn't the monster have abrace hieght of 5 1/2 inches and the dreamseason pse x force have on of 7 inches. you picked the wrong x force to compare to. could at least shot the pse x force with the 6 inch brace height.

tis post is not about who has the fastest or a better bow but if your going to compare at least make it a fair one.

i could sit a nit pick alot of bows each have there strenghts and weakness. you better have perfect to near perfect form to shoot these speed bows.

1-3 years experience
brace height over 7"
axle to axle not less than 32"
some where between 55 to 65 #'s
(most bows that are 60 -70-# will go to 57#'s)
practice way before season
shoot everyday
try this 10 arrows at 10 yards
10 arrows at 20 yards
10 arrows at 30 yards

work into this process if you find your self tired at the 30 yards drop it to 5 shots, once you can group the shots in at 30 yards, start shooting the 30 yards 1st then 20 and then 10, your groups will start to shrink. once you got them down inrease to 40, 50, 60 yards, even though more than likely you never take that shot your 30 and under will be chip shots and confidence is huge along with patience, as far as pass throughs most 50 # bows will make'm as long as your waiting for that perfect shot(broadside) and your using sharp braodheads(cut on impact helps a ton)

BROADHEADS is another story all i will say the 2 balde rage broadhead is unreal killing machines and i was a huge muzzy fan until last year.

Posted by Kennyog on 03-15-2009 08:37 PM:

Thank you.

Once again,thank you all for the great replies.I feel i know a little something and not going into this completley blind.Take care all.

Posted by Travis P on 03-15-2009 09:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wade lucking
doesn't the monster have abrace hieght of 5 1/2 inches and the dreamseason pse x force have on of 7 inches. you picked the wrong x force to compare to. could at least shot the pse x force with the 6 inch brace height.

tis post is not about who has the fastest or a better bow but if your going to compare at least make it a fair one.

i could sit a nit pick alot of bows each have there strenghts and weakness. you better have perfect to near perfect form to shoot these speed bows.

1-3 years experience
brace height over 7"
axle to axle not less than 32"
some where between 55 to 65 #'s
(most bows that are 60 -70-# will go to 57#'s)
practice way before season
shoot everyday
try this 10 arrows at 10 yards
10 arrows at 20 yards
10 arrows at 30 yards

work into this process if you find your self tired at the 30 yards drop it to 5 shots, once you can group the shots in at 30 yards, start shooting the 30 yards 1st then 20 and then 10, your groups will start to shrink. once you got them down inrease to 40, 50, 60 yards, even though more than likely you never take that shot your 30 and under will be chip shots and confidence is huge along with patience, as far as pass throughs most 50 # bows will make'm as long as your waiting for that perfect shot(broadside) and your using sharp braodheads(cut on impact helps a ton)

BROADHEADS is another story all i will say the 2 balde rage broadhead is unreal killing machines and i was a huge muzzy fan until last year.

No the monster has a brace hieight the same as a x-force 6 inches. The monster XLR8 has a brace height of 5 inches and the Pse omen has a 5.5 inch brace height. I also was a huge muzzy fan until last year when I was given a rage 2 blade man was I impressed. I have been shooting bows since I was small I started with a recurve and moved into a golden eagle compound when I was 9 and I have not went back to a recurve since. I dont own a bow with a brece height under 7 inches but I will take a chance on the XLR8 just because I want to shoot a 500 grain arrow around 280 FPS That is where your going to get maximum KE a fast bow shooting a heavy arrow.

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Posted by wade lucking on 03-15-2009 09:58 PM:

ok on the monster brace height but there are 2 types of x force a regular with the 6 inch brace height and the dream season that has a 7 inch brace height, you would be surprised what 1 " on brace hieght will do for speed, another thing is were they bare bow with the same peep, rest, string loop etc.

Posted by Travis P on 03-16-2009 02:28 AM:

Yes both had a tru-peep, Dloop, qad prohunter rest, both shooting a pse arrow with no fletching weighing exactly 350 grains. I also just got back from shooting with a buddy who has bowtech admiral I shot it about 30 times its a lights out shooter as well. Its 10FPS for every inch of brace height.

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Posted by wade lucking on 03-16-2009 06:26 AM:

10 fps per inch

above you stated you shot the pse x-force dream season.

http://pse-archery.com/prod.php?k=57248&u=0805GX

which has a 7" brace height if you add the 10 fps it would indeed shoot 1 fps faster than the mathews correct.

i'm not saying it will come out that way, but if you could would chrono the x- force gx with the 6" brace height iw ould like to know the results.

i would love a bow review on the bow madness single cam bow also as i haven't got to shoot one yet. if some has acccess to one i would like to know on a 1(bad) - 10 (great) scale the following stuff.

feel in hand
draw cycle
hand torque
hand shock
noise
let down(jerk)
back wall
and a chrono reading if possible.
this bow sounds like a great hunting bow.

Posted by Travis P on 03-16-2009 06:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wade lucking
10 fps per inch

above you stated you shot the pse x-force dream season.

http://pse-archery.com/prod.php?k=57248&u=0805GX

which has a 7" brace height if you add the 10 fps it would indeed shoot 1 fps faster than the mathews correct.

i'm not saying it will come out that way, but if you could would chrono the x- force gx with the 6" brace height iw ould like to know the results.

i would love a bow review on the bow madness single cam bow also as i haven't got to shoot one yet. if some has acccess to one i would like to know on a 1(bad) - 10 (great) scale the following stuff.

feel in hand
draw cycle
hand torque
hand shock
noise
let down(jerk)
back wall
and a chrono reading if possible.
this bow sounds like a great hunting bow.

Your right it was the x-force gx my bad for some reason I always call it the dream season. I have not shot the bow madness but I have seen it. I think it will be a big hit for pse. Pse has a few bows out now that are nice. When the x-force first came out I was gonna buy one and I shot and shot it and it never seemed to fit ME and I could not get over the over all shot noise it produced I know it really doesnt matter as no newer bow is loud enough to even consider culling one over noise.

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Posted by Travis P on 03-16-2009 06:38 PM:

I will call the shop and see if they have one this weekend if they do I will take my draw force mapper and give you a reading on the bow. I can also compare it to other bows if you would like. O it is a 10 FPS loss for evey inch of brace height

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Posted by wade lucking on 03-16-2009 07:33 PM:

thanks travis. i would like to see it compared to the reezen 7.0 by mathews, diamonds archerys iceman, and truth 2 by bear achery. thanks

wade

Posted by Travis P on 03-16-2009 08:29 PM:

I have the reezen 7.0 it is the best shooting bow I have ever had! the new harmonic stabilsor they came out with is the cats meow. I would really recommend the reezen 7.0 it is making want to have yard sale on all my other bows. I know I am going to sell my general and my alphamax 32 because I dont need them because the reezen 7.0 is 32 inches ATA and it will out shoot them all day long. I may end up selling all my bows except for the reezen and the XLR8 the only reason I would keep it is because I really want to sling a 500 plus grain arrow at around 280 FPS. I know the efficency numbers on the reezen is the highest yet attained by any bow tested. The monsters still have not been tested and posted.

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Posted by Travis P on 03-16-2009 08:34 PM:

Re: facts boys

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
they had to all compete in a test and the x-force smoked them all. its faster, smoother, more energy, and the only bow on the market that can shoot threw the ballistics gell, and i mean all the way threw it and hit the target. its ok if you guys like other bows just don't be telling stories you when you don't know facts.

I think you need to find the facts. It may have been the fastest three years ago but know it has fallen behind.

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