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-- History question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=249667)

then why did ukc and every book i ever read on hounds tell us that all hounds but the plott came from english fox hounds?????????? i only know what i have been told for 40 yr's not beeing a ass but show me where it is . now black @tans might be the first reg ukc hound but akc was there first but any way all hounds started from english fox hounds and broke off from there to the type of dog's we see today.

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

yeah

im pretty sure it was a walker from indiana or ohio or there close

Possible Answer (English)

Well here goes:

Dual Grand Beech River Sputnik
Dual Grand Penny's Kentucky Kojak
Dual Grand Beshears' Blue Boy II (Junior)
Dual Grand Pinehill True Boy
Dual Grand Indian Creek Wendy
Dual Grand Gray & Taylor's Sandy
Dual Grand Hickory Hollow Hambone II
Dual Grand Dickey's Old Sandy
Dual Grand Wilcox Thunder JR
Dual Grand Thrasher's Little Penny
Dual Grand Tenbrooks Sandy III

In no particular order but I would say Sputnik was the first English Dual Grand Champion !?!

Mark Penny
Moberly MO

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Home of Dual Grand Champion All Grand Doctor Evil

quote:

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Originally posted by P.W. Chapman
Sorry, but no. The Black and Tan was the first recognized and registered with UKC. All the way back in 1900, I believe. The English was 3rd & redbone 2nd.

The English was the parent breed of the blueticks and treeing walkers for if those dogs were registered in UKC they had to be registered as English until the 40's or 50's when they broke away from the English.

Here are the years in which these breeds were recognized by UKC...

Black & Tan 1900
Redbone 1902
English 1905
Treeing Walkers 1945
Blueticks 1946
Plotts 1946
Leopards 2008

Of course that doesn't answer the original question. I'd love to see what Todd finds out....

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Home of.........

Baldwin's Blue Princess

and

Baldwin's Blue Texas


In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

quote:

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Originally posted by smokey7
I refuse to believe that my bluedogs are in any way, shape, or form descended from the same dogs as walker dogs.

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ukc GR. Nite ch ,pkc silver ch 07 pkc reserve state ch. 2009 akc ga state ch PR Ratts whitey girl
PKC SCH. UKC NITE CH SHE'S A GEM
UKC NITE CH. PKC CH SUPA Freak
Evan Ashley 770-654-9761
PKC Proud!!!!!!

McDonalds Cole Younger was one of the first Grand Nite Champs..

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Saline Creek Kennels
Black&Tans since 1977
#573-392-7119 cell 573-286-0431
Home of bunch of lowbred culls;
Saline Creek Smokin Sheba (DualGrCh Osage Stinger Joe x DualGrCh Schenker's Smokin Cindy)
Saline Creek Reba II (GrCh North Rivers Hard Cola (albert, medicine man bred) x Saline Creek Reba (Sheba's sister)
Saline Creek Beau (Millers Midnight Harry, (Eads bred) x Beauty, Myers/ Sting bred) co owner Will Simpson
GrNiteCh Chenoweths Cheyenne
NiteCh Party Queen (GrNiteCh Duelin Dan x GrNiteCh Ruby 2)
Mandy (littermate to Thunderstick & Lil Ann)
Saline Creek Jenna Jameson (GrNiteCh Kansas Hayes x GrNiteCh Dixie Gem) co owners Scott Rodden, Kyle Sears

Houses Dancer in the mid 1960,s

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CH GRNITECH STAR HILL RAGIN BLACK JUDGE
(GRNTCH THUNDER VALLEY RAGIN OX x GRNTCH KY RIVER CHIGGER)
STAR HILL RAGIN BLK JUDGE II
(CH GRNTCH STAR HILL RAGIN BLACK JUDGE x Ch NTCH Lil PUke)

Frank & Lisa Yates
RAYWICK KY
270-692-6713

quote:

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Originally posted by kycooner1
Houses Dancer in the mid 1960,s

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The History Should Be Known
Don

http://www.finleyriverchief.com

Sites I like to visit that have a lot of information:

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Register On The Above Forum To See A Lot More Old Pictures And Ads.
There are more that you can't access unless registered.

why is this one so hard to find the answer too?? did ukc not keep tabs on this kind of thing back then or what

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

American Coondogs

Tennasee Lead, was not a champion in any breed class but was a Black & Tan and was the Catalyst for most of what you see in the Hound world today

So the first Coon Dogs where Bl&T i might not like that but thats what it is, but then those dogs where far diffrent than what we have today i mean in a good way too

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Well Stanley,this looks like another fine mess you've gotten us into

Ray Hudson

he might have been a great coon dog . but where is it said other than hear or writen that the black and tan was the first coon dog ?????????? they where not ........... yes they may be the first reg ukc coon dog breed but they came from englich fox hounds. like it or not that is the truth..........the only hound not to come from english fox hound and they may have some in them was the plott.... they got there start like a lot of the curs did by the plott family....... you have a world wide web just type in coon hound and see what it tells you. i bet it was the same thing i was told long before the computer was around . english fox hound

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boy's i tell ya how it is. i'am not here to bs you. i'am here to hunt dogs and get you the most for your money.my door is open for anyone to come hunt, spend the night or the weekend i hunt hard and it shows in my dogs 317-494-1098 danny suttles

Re: American Coondogs

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray&Luie
Tennasee Lead, was not a champion in any breed class but was a Black & Tan and was the Catalyst for most of what you see in the Hound world today

So the first Coon Dogs where Bl&T i might not like that but thats what it is, but then those dogs where far diffrent than what we have today i mean in a good way too

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Wasn't one of James Hawker's dogs from Va was it?

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Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

I think I heard something somewhere about a pic was worth more than 1,000 words???

__________________
Saline Creek Kennels
Black&Tans since 1977
#573-392-7119 cell 573-286-0431
Home of bunch of lowbred culls;
Saline Creek Smokin Sheba (DualGrCh Osage Stinger Joe x DualGrCh Schenker's Smokin Cindy)
Saline Creek Reba II (GrCh North Rivers Hard Cola (albert, medicine man bred) x Saline Creek Reba (Sheba's sister)
Saline Creek Beau (Millers Midnight Harry, (Eads bred) x Beauty, Myers/ Sting bred) co owner Will Simpson
GrNiteCh Chenoweths Cheyenne
NiteCh Party Queen (GrNiteCh Duelin Dan x GrNiteCh Ruby 2)
Mandy (littermate to Thunderstick & Lil Ann)
Saline Creek Jenna Jameson (GrNiteCh Kansas Hayes x GrNiteCh Dixie Gem) co owners Scott Rodden, Kyle Sears

Anybody could make a sign and put it up , but that don't make it gospel. ( you know how coonhunters are ! LOL )

Do you honestly believe that all our coondogs came from that one dog? NOT !
He had to have been bred to a female and it might have all come from HER side of the family.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

deep river mike was the first ever grand nite in 1960 but i dont know about dual grand

so there we have it. All walkers came from a black and tan. However, I don't believe that sign is complete. Here, I'll finish it.............




And then, that stud dog was bred to every slick treeing female we could find. Then, through carefull selection, we culled out the dogs that actually could locate the coon and kept the ones that allways treed first and never had anything at all. 150 years of this has brought us to the beautifull and magnificent walker hounds you people hunt and enjoy today.

__________________
Home of.........

Baldwin's Blue Princess

and

Baldwin's Blue Texas


In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

quote:

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Originally posted by Loren Simpson




I think I heard something somewhere about a pic was worth more than 1,000 words???

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__________________
Home of.........

Baldwin's Blue Princess

and

Baldwin's Blue Texas


In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-- Mark Twain

quote:

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Originally posted by Roger Hall
I might be wrong but I think it was House's Bawlie, Joe House owned him at the time. He was also 1963 ACHA World Champion and if I not mistaken he was also World Show Champion that Year. First and only dog to do that. If my memory is right, that's been a lot of years ago.

Someone tell if I wrong because I might be.

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The History Should Be Known
Don

http://www.finleyriverchief.com

Sites I like to visit that have a lot of information:

A Lot Of Old Pictures And Ads

http://finleyriverchief.forumotion.net

Register On The Above Forum To See A Lot More Old Pictures And Ads.
There are more that you can't access unless registered.

bawling barney ??

quote:

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Originally posted by todd kellam
That is a good question. I can't find the answer right off but I'm guessing HistoryNutt is very close on the time frame being the mid 60's. The GrNiteCh degree did not even come out until 1964. The first CH titled dog was in '47 (english dog) but can't find when the GRCH title was first available? For a long time CH NITECH was as high as you could go.

I'm going to make an educated guess then I'm going to try to run it through the system and see what I can find out. I'm going to guess Dale Brandenburger's Pioneer Drum.

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__________________
The History Should Be Known
Don

http://www.finleyriverchief.com

Sites I like to visit that have a lot of information:

A Lot Of Old Pictures And Ads

http://finleyriverchief.forumotion.net

Register On The Above Forum To See A Lot More Old Pictures And Ads.
There are more that you can't access unless registered.

i dont thank deep river mike was ever showed.
any way my old computer guessed the right yr.

This is a tough question,,but i do know that a fellow back home WVa by the name of Les Flinn had a dual grand Walker that i chased many miles in those hills,,that was like 1964,,maybe 1965 Dogs regestered name was Flinn's Thunderbird ,but Les called him Ring. I'm not saying he was the first but dang close .