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No doubt a good many, probably most, have a big problem with the way 4(e) is written but the fact is a dog that has clearly quit it's track cannot be minused for quitting that track until that dog comes in. Common sense plays no part in judgeing this rule or any other rule for that matter. Just do what the rule book tells you to do.

I agree 100% with JIM. Kevin you say you get "stuck" with the score card. why don't you stop volunteering to be judge? it's the clubs responsibility to gather judges. if you say no they should find someone else.

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speak to 'em

If someone doesn't like the call I make they can ask the cast to vote on it. If it still doesn't seem favorable to them they can question the card. As far as volunteering goes, what are you talking about? I have never volunteered to hold the card. The club appoints judges and if someone is capable they are expected to do it. We have a small club so we all do what we can to help. I will judge when asked and can deal with it just fine but sometimes it's nice to just call your dog and not have to worry about judging. I am just curious what you consider coming in. I consider it to be when a dog checks on the handlers whether it's at my feet or 30 feet away. I am curious what U.K.C.'s definition of a dog coming in is. I don't have a problem with the rule but would like to see a written definition of "coming in". Evidently you guys define coming in as a dog standing at your feet and that's fine. You guys can interpet the rules the way you do and I'll do the same. I think I'll call U.K.C. and get their definition so I know without a doubt. I'll let everyone know how they define coming in when I find out. Thanks for the refresher course. Kevin

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Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

kevin, What I mean by volunteering to be a judge is: At my local club when you sign up the master of hounds asks you "Can you guide or judge" if you say yes he puts a g for guide, or a j for judge or he'll put both on there, which ever you choose, and if you say no, thats fine no one asks you to judge. The guide and judges will come out in the wash. I consider a dog coming in as to when a dog go's out, comes in and stands around the handlers feet or the judges feet consistantly.

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speak to 'em

BE A MAN MINUSE THEM BOTH HANDLE THEM AND GO HUNTING IF MY DOG WAS CHEWING ON A PIG AND NOT AFTER A COON HE WOULD GET HIS A$$ KICKED BOTTOM LINE ALL THIS OTHER STUFF IS EXCUSES NOT TO MINUS A DOG WHEN IT NEEDS IT THATS MY OPINION

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ICE COLD KENNEL. (Ice Cold Crew)

HOME OF PERF. SIRE, SS SIRE
GRNITECH ICE COLD SWEAT BEAD
2011 UKC WORLD HUNT TOP 20 FINALIST

YOU DON'T GET TO THE TOP BY SITTIN ON YOUR BOTTOM!!!!!!

JOSH DAVIDSON 304-654-6819

sorry, you can't "kick a dogs a@@" in a cast, that'll send ya home. plus why would you have walked in on the dogs to begin with and not called time out?

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speak to 'em

Dead horses, cows, pigs or goats are still livestock. The problem is they can't be molested. This rules out the scratch. If they never come to you, minus them after the 8, call timeout and get the dogs. If they come to you minus and move.

It's like a dog bringing a half rotten coon up to the cast after it had been struck in. You don't plus the strike.

I don't need UKC or anyone else to define for me when a dog "comes in", I know that much when I see it. Anything else is just trying to get around a rule that was written as clear as anything can get.
Be a man and just follow the rules as a they are written. And do your ass kick'in on Monday night.

If you want to beat a dog on a cast, understand it may be your last cast for a while. A hunt isn't the place to train your hounds. If you get barred for abuse don't blame the hunter that follows the rules.

Jim, I know too but you are the one that keeps talking about black and white and by the book. What is your definition? I am not trying to be smart, just would like to know. As far as trying to get around a rule goes you're wrong. Like I said before I judge fair and consistant, if I make a mistake it is not to cheat. I don't need to cheat, I pack a coon dog. Also I don't know if you are questioning my ability to be a man but if you are I get to Indiana every once in a while so if you want to find out let me know. I try to be objective but won't tolerate someone questioning my character or calling me a cheat.

Wrinkletreebrut, like I said we have a small club. I guide and judge most of the casts that I'm on. The officers know who can guide and judge and they won't ask if you can because they know you can. When we have new guys or guys that can only make a few hunts they usually don't feel comfortable with the card. I think most guys have the same definition as you and I can respect that.

__________________
Montana Red Kennels - Redbones that catch game and hold it untill you get there.

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Bobcat Bustin Billy

Nt.Ch.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Coon Slammin Sage

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Tree Bangin Buddy

Gr.Ch. 'PR' MT Red's Kim's Cat Crazy Maci

'PR' MT Red's Tree Ringin Rhea

(406)564-3061

Kevin, when you made your very first response to this thread you made the statement that both dogs quit their track so both dogs should be minused. I made my response and you then stated that you had not read the exact wording of the rule but you felt dogs that quit should take their minus. Then you obviously undertook to actually read the rule and at that point your discussion moved to defining "comes in".
I have no doubt you are a good judge and an honest judge. I don't know you from Adam but I get that impression just from reading your posts. I have absolutely no doubt I could draw you 10 times straight and never have reason to critizize your judgeing. And I am 100 percent sure you know how to define when a dog "comes in".