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Posted by Dhyer on 12-09-2008 06:52 PM:

Mona

where i work No one makes $26 an hour, not even close, and we make the parts that you Ford workers are building cars with. not simple cheap parts, fuel injection, antilock brake and other highly precise components. My example for a fat lazy worker is my cousin, just getting ready to take his buy out ( $70,000 dollars)and retire as a mill right, doesn't know how to fix anything, had a bed in a the pallet rack at work where he slept with an alarm clock!!!!!!!! Had people punch him in and out when he wasn't there, my dad, brother and all of my male relatives worked for Ford or GM and that doesn't change my opinion any. I have been employed here for 22 years, and kept my job because of what abilities that the good lord blessed me with, not because of my skin color or what sex I am. The unions have become a haven for the lame and lazy and they even have the nerve to think they deserve to make two or three times what the normal worker does. Get twice the benefits that every one else does, and then say they are getting robbed when some one tries to make them give up some perks. I work at a tier two auto parts supplier as a the manager of the Mechanical Engineering department. If the automotive companies go under,, everything goes under. If you aren't one of those lazy scum bags that the union protects, then don't take offense to what I'm saying. Not all union workers are lazy, but the union promotes and protects lazy worthless people.

Posted by Merritt Rice on 12-09-2008 06:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by willseeyalater
You like Obama so much but you are jumping ship on this issue. Don't you agree with Pelosi and Frank that the gov't can appoint a car Czar and do better and turn it around? Maybe we can nationalize all the car companies and they make three models....one cheap one with average mileage..call it a Trabant...guaranteed to run from the dealership to your house,

one medium priced one....call it a Proletariat....guaranteed to run for at least 10, 000 miles and run on its own exhaust.....a fuel called pipe dreams.

The third is what all the politicians will be driving...highend model...you have to be a party member.....call it the Premier. Runs on nothing as long as you sell your soul to the party. Runs best on roads paved with good intentions but the destination will be the same for all of them.

I agree with you on this. Let the car companies file bankruptcy, restructure their debts and business plan and they will survive by tightening up their britches and shedding some pounds. UAW is bleeding them dry all these years. UAW and the Democrats have been eating out of the same trough for to long now. THe food is running short but they can do fine with less.

I think you are right on the money. Great post!

Posted by willseeyalater on 12-09-2008 06:59 PM:

You all argue about who is rich or poor and who deserves what. Let's just say that these were some of the thoughts that drove the Russian Revolution in 1917 against Czar Nicholas. Marxists worked hard to get the poor to rise up against the evil rich people and they ruined their country. Politics of envy and coveting is what this is. If a company or family is going bankrupt then the law has some protections in place for them and they can pull it back together and try again but they have to make a plan to cover their debts not just have money tossed their way to bail them out. Some of you all scare me how easy you would make it for the USA to become a full communist country.

Posted by Ralph Williams on 12-09-2008 07:02 PM:

redneck_girl

Do you work with my buddy? You guys sound ALOT alike. lol There are many jobs in your paper huh. What do they pay? When the plant that I worked for said they were closing and they did not need us anymore our paychecks were cut in half. Ford pays 85% of your wages when you are laidoff. Correct me if I am wrong on that!

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Posted by btyoakam on 12-09-2008 07:14 PM:

I never spent much time at the end of chasis where they drive the vehicle's off, but I did see a man get pinned between 2 F350s and a women get run over by the rear wheels of a flat bed dually. In both cases the employees and union had to step in to keep managament from dragging the injured out of the way so they could start the line back up. I worked in trim, we ran 88 jobs per hour. I was lucky if I had time to turn around and get a drink of water. The only time I sat on my "lazy a$$" was during my break, a break that was fought for by the union brothers and sisters that came before me, and a break that many of you enjoy today, union or nonunion. The unions are not perfect, but they are not as bad as some of you make them out to be. I have friends that work at the Camry plant in Georgetown KY, they have mixed feelings on the union, but they are smart enough to know that they wouldn't make 27$ an hour with good benefits if it wasn't for the 2 Ford plants and the GM plant in the state.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 12-09-2008 08:15 PM:

Sheepster,

Having talked with you on the phone before, and being one of the few folks on this message board that can say I've looked you straight in the eye....I don't believe that you are the uber goober that you are portraying here.

I've come to realize that you have a very limited view of the world, and having that limited view, I certainly understand your way of thinking. However, as I frequently tell you, all is not as it seems to be, or there is "more to it" than what you are considering.

I'm not sure what job you hold today, but if memory serves me, you used to work in a carpet manufacturing facility. You are wanting to punish the 3 CEO's of the auto manufacturing industry, and just for giggles, the to 10% of all of the upper management that have "excessive" salaries.

I don't disagree with you that there are large levels of waste in auto manufacturing. On that we agree...however, allowing them to "crash and burn" would have far reaching consequences.

That carpet that you made...who purchased that? Sure the 1,000 or so people that work in auto manufacturing management made it, and if they lost their jobs...no negative effect would be felt in Rockmart GA.... However, if the big 3 "crash and burn"....how man of those UAW employees are going to lose their jobs? How many of them would buy carpet manufactured in Rockmart?

Certain you can't think that the companies themselves are "getting rich" on the poor man's back....they are looking for a bailout. Why? Because they are LOSING money.

Currently, the cost to these automaker by UAW (the union) benefits is a major causitive factor. For every UAW worker, in every UAW factory, the cost to the automakers per hour is $73.62 per hour. Now that does not mean that everyone is making that wage....fact is that those "fat and lazy" UAW employees are averaging 28.02 per hour (assembly) and $32.43 per hour (skilled trades). If you factor in overtime, holidays, vacation, shift premiums...the average hourly wage comes out to $39.68.

Where does the rest go? Well $33.58 per hour (46% of the total compensation paid out by the auto makers) goes for

Now my friend, if you look at all of these...someone's going to be affected if the big 3 "crash and burn". With a MAJOR decrease in insurance pools, insurance costs for you and me rise, lessening pension benefits cause a further drain on the public "pension" fund...social security. Decreases in payroll taxes mean that someone has to foot the bill for government spending.....that means you and I.

Lets look at some of these...let's take the SUB pay. Do you know that the UAW negotiated with the big 3 to pay into a fund that supplements unemployment? Do you know that for a period of time, UAW employees, if laid off get Unemployment beneifts PLUS sub-pay....which usually equates in combination to 85 to 90% of what they would be making without sub pay? Now that's what I call a benefit!

But wait...it goes further than that. What about all of the older retired UAW workers? Do you know that the employer still has financial liabilities to them as well?

UAW employees enjoy the same health care benefits after they retire as they did when they were activley working. In 2006, GM paid out 4.9 Billion (with a B) in UAW negotiated retirement health benefits for 291,000 retired employees and surviving spouses.... I ask you...if you let them "crash and burn"...who's gonna pick up those peices?

The simple fact is that none of this is simple. As elvis mentioned, this is not the first time that the government has come to the aid of a private label. Chrysler was given a loan, and under the leadership of one man....paid the money back. Unfortunatly, that company has been bought, sold, bought again, and sold again since that time....each time stripping cash out of it's infrastructure...reducing it to ruins.

The UNION must share some of the blame for the state of affairs. I agree that there are excesses at every turn....but every three years there are union negotiations...and the company is held hostage for fear of a strike, if benefits, that are driving up the cost of the product, are not held at current levels, and/or INCREASED....despite the cost. I'm not saying that the Union does not have a place, but how is it that the Union is making money, but the company is losing money? Does the UNION share in some of the blame for the state things are in? What is the UNION prepared to do to save the industry?

It's a whole lot more complicated than allowing them to "crash and burn".

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Posted by Lee Stocking on 12-09-2008 08:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
So a man in Michigan that makes 40 or 50 dollars an hour deserves to get bailed out but a man in Georgia that makes 6 or 10 bucks an hour deserves to just go bankrupt and end up under a bridge????? What about the thousands and thousands of folks that were allready barely making it that have allready went under or are going under right now? They can kiss there butt's goodbye but a man that allready makes 150 or 200 thousand a year needs help? How many set's of rules are there???

Go get an education before you spill your ignorance. If you dont want an education pay more attention, and stop being so judgmental. You dont really know how the automakers work, your just spouting off and doing a good job of it. I have hard working TN customers who rely on the auto industry. Company owners who make tooling and provide wages, health and secure jobs to employees. You could get off your whining rear and learn how to do one of these jobs. You really could. BTW $50 per hr @ 40hrs a week = $2000 weekly. 2000 weekly = 8,000monthly -yearly = $96,000 gross, not $150,000 or $200,000.
You want to make $50 per hr, move up there, get your job and work your way up. Its all up to you

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Posted by Tarascon on 12-09-2008 08:52 PM:

My thought on the bailout is that if the big three had been smart enough to make cars and trucks that were fuel efficient, they would not be in trouble now. FYI: Europe is way ahead of us in having fuel efficient vehicles on the road. I'm still hearing "Great milage" advertised on TV here and folks, it's less than 25mpg that is being called "Great".
I don't feel sorry for the Big 3. I say LOAN them the money, make them PAY IT BACK. Keep them in business because our enconomy is already in dumpster, we don't need the entire automotive manufacturing sector of our economy out of work. But the Big 3 did this to themselves. Sorta like the banks did it to themselves.

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Posted by redneck_girl on 12-09-2008 08:53 PM:

Not all union workers are lazy, but the union promotes and protects lazy worthless people.

Dave, my friend, had you said that to begin with I wouldn't have taken offense.

I do agree with your Mill Wright story, I see it everyday. I do agree some fat needs to be trimmed in that dept. I do agree that the managerial team needs to be trimmed a WHOLE LOT. I do agree that the CEO's need to get out of those personal jets and drive a dang car, or get into coach on a commercial flight. I do agree that these companies waste more than you or I would. I also agree that the SOME Union officials protect the 'lame and lazy', I'll be the first one to ask WTF???
On the other hand I also agree with the previous poster telling the stories about the drive off jobs, yes, those are considered the premium jobs...I had been assigned to that particular area while I was restricted for a bit from power tools because of a spinal injury (btw, just had surgically fixed). That area is no joke! We also had people get run over, more than once.
Some of those that have never worked in an assembly facility have no idea what they are talking about. Sometimes it's better left that way, than to try to argue with them about what the duties we perform are worth.

I, myself, am also looking at the buyout. The education buyout. Not a huge lump sum of money to go shopping with, a chance to get an education in another field. Something I wish I had done before Ford, I started there at 21, at that time working was more important than learning.

As you said, if the Big 3 go under, I hate to see the state that this Country will be in. Think about it, you're a parts supplier, so it would effect you, but think about your suppliers.....RIGHT DOWN TO THE FOLKS THAT MAKE CARDBOARD BOXES!!

These companies have the potential to make it easier on themselves, if they just weren't so d@mn lazy!

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Posted by Kenny Eads on 12-09-2008 08:55 PM:

Yeah, what Oakridge said. lol

Posted by Family on 12-09-2008 09:03 PM:

Smokey

whats the matter with you starting this post.

the economy and obama............. these are not good conversation starters.

hope you have a better day tomorrow.

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Posted by Dhyer on 12-09-2008 09:09 PM:

We laid off 30 more yesterday, making the total somewhere around 75, we only employed around 200 to start with. We will lose $350,000 this month.
The auto makers have to be helped out, but it has to be major change from top to bottom or it is only a temporary band aid.

Lee is right, if you want to do better, go learn something and market that skill. In most cases, the only thing holding people back are them selves. My brother hired into ford at 18, just retired with 32 years at 50 years old. Made over $100,000 a year more than half the time he worked there as an electrician. Most days not fixing or looking at one thing. Another friend of the family, retired with 52 years, thats right 52 years. Why? because he was making s much money for doing nothing that he couldn't make him self retire.

Sure, I would love to have those problems, but I am smart enough to realize that those kind of things can't last, it just isn't possible.. Kind of like a big tick sucking on a dog, when the blood runs out what happens? the dog dies and the tick has to do something else or die itself. guess what, time to do something else cause the dog is starting to stumble.

Posted by rance56 on 12-09-2008 09:29 PM:

im tired of hearing about the private jets, do you think if they gave up the private jets it would make iota of a difference?

the big 3 will never be able to make it until the union contracts are redone. half of something is better than all of nothing!

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Posted by bluetick2 on 12-09-2008 10:19 PM:

OUR GREAT LEADERS HAVE OUR COUNTRY 3 TRILLION IN DEBT AND THEY THINK THAT THEY CAN RUN THE BIGGIST CO. IN THE WORLD? THEY NEED TO FIRE THEMSELVES AND HIRE OUTSIDE CONTRACTORS TO DO THEIR JOB FOR ONE FOURTH OF PAY AND NO RETIREMENT... AND IF THEY WERNT GIVING FORIEGN CO. BIG TAX CUTS SO THEY COULD COMPETE WITH BIG THREE AND MAKING THEM LOOSE MARKET SHARE ....THOSE CEO JUST WANT A LOAN.... TO PAY BACK THE BANKS GOT THERE MONEY FREE TO NEVER PAY BACK.... DOES OUR GOV. OWN THE RAILROADS? THE WORKERS DONT PAY SOCIAL SECURITY? THEY OWN BANKS NOW AND LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN THE MANUFACTURING BUISNESS......

Posted by smokey7 on 12-09-2008 10:22 PM:

Joe, why do you over analyze everything?

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Posted by Kenny Eads on 12-09-2008 10:34 PM:

Sheep, do you think before you speak/type? You should try it sometime.

Posted by rance56 on 12-09-2008 10:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
Joe, why do you over analyze everything?

because he is not a simpleton like some on here

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Posted by Ralph Williams on 12-09-2008 11:15 PM:

Loan or give them the money,it makes NO difference. They will be able to build more cars that nobody is buying in the first place. Where I live a GOOD paying job is around 16.00 per hour and we still have to pay for medical,dental,prescriptions,and eye coverage out of that. I used to work for the UAW and they kept telling us how much more money we should be making and so we wanted more! Care to guess where my job went? I hope Mexico likes my old job!

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Posted by ysudep2 on 12-10-2008 12:08 AM:

WOW smokey you say some of the dumbest s@#t I have every heard in my life. You are either a very uneducated man or you like to try and stir stuff up!!

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Posted by smokey7 on 12-10-2008 12:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkin man
Loan or give them the money,it makes NO difference. They will be able to build more cars that nobody is buying in the first place. Where I live a GOOD paying job is around 16.00 per hour and we still have to pay for medical,dental,prescriptions,and eye coverage out of that. I used to work for the UAW and they kept telling us how much more money we should be making and so we wanted more! Care to guess where my job went? I hope Mexico likes my old job!

Mucho Gracias.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 12-10-2008 04:31 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
Joe, why do you over analyze everything?

Now Jason, is that really the best you can do? Is that your answer for everything?

You come on here and make some "outrageous" statement about letting hundreds of thousands of jobs "crash and burn", then when someone actually THINKS about the impact of what you've said...you accuse them of "over analyzing".....

GET REAL....

Let me put it in simple Rockmart Georgia terms....LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP....

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Posted by john nannemann on 12-10-2008 04:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by willseeyalater
You all argue about who is rich or poor and who deserves what. Let's just say that these were some of the thoughts that drove the Russian Revolution in 1917 against Czar Nicholas. Marxists worked hard to get the poor to rise up against the evil rich people and they ruined their country. Politics of envy and coveting is what this is. If a company or family is going bankrupt then the law has some protections in place for them and they can pull it back together and try again but they have to make a plan to cover their debts not just have money tossed their way to bail them out. Some of you all scare me how easy you would make it for the USA to become a full communist country.

amen, we are moving to a political economy as fast as we can go- the government determines who makes what and when according to what is politically expedient at the time. atlas shrugged is playing itself out day by day. the characters are the same, only the names have changed. look at the Illinois governor today, democrat trying to sell the senate seat.

tyrants, tyrants, and more tyrants.

Posted by opie on 12-10-2008 05:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
So a man in Michigan that makes 40 or 50 dollars an hour deserves to get bailed out but a man in Georgia that makes 6 or 10 bucks an hour deserves to just go bankrupt and end up under a bridge????? What about the thousands and thousands of folks that were allready barely making it that have allready went under or are going under right now? They can kiss there butt's goodbye but a man that allready makes 150 or 200 thousand a year needs help? How many set's of rules are there???

DUDE YOU KEEP SAYING 40 OR 50 ANY HOUR!!!!!!!!!!! I DON'T KNOW A SINGLE PERSON THAT WORKS AT A GM OR FORD PLANT THAT MAKES ANY WHERE NEAR THAT AMOUNT!!AND I KNOW QUITE A FEW PEOPLE THAT WORK AT BOTH!!!!! YOUR BOGAS FACTS ARE IN FACT JUST UNEDUCATED OPINIONS!!!! YOU TRUELY ARE A MORON!!!!! JMO

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Posted by lightning1 on 12-10-2008 05:30 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by john nannemann
amen, we are moving to a political economy as fast as we can go- the government determines who makes what and when according to what is politically expedient at the time. atlas shrugged is playing itself out day by day. the characters are the same, only the names have changed. look at the Illinois governor today, democrat trying to sell the senate seat.

tyrants, tyrants, and more tyrants.

You are very Right. What country in it's right mind would ship it's jobs out of the country to just benefit a few. This country has been slowly run by dictators (tyrants) for 30 years. One side refuses to see it and the other thinks it's a good thing.

Posted by POP on 12-10-2008 11:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkin man
They are WAY OVER PAID for what they do! I have a buddy that works for Ford and ALL he does is complain how under paid he is and how hard he works. This is nothing but bull shi#! Let him try to live on what most people live on. I say screw them. Let them get their own @ss out of their own mess! Nobody is helping the already unemployed out.

I BET YOU WOULD TAKE A JOB MAKING THAT IF OFFERED..........

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