UKC Forums - opinions on hunting pups

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Posted by HOBO on 11-21-2008 10:27 PM:

Re: Re: Re: opinions on hunting pups

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
A lot of what little I do know about dogs and coonhunting I have learned from others. The rest I learned the hard way and looking back some of it could have been avoided had I only listened to what others had told me.There are some on here whos opinion I value and apreciate.

Just because ive been lucky enough to get my hands on a couple good ones that made me look like I knew what I was doing certainly doesn't mean that Im incapable of learning from others.
Very rarely do I hunt with someone that has been in this game awhile that I cant pick up some helpful tidbits on training coondogs. Every one has a few gems tucked away that might help me.

I have over the years flip flopped my opinion on this subject of wheather to hunt or not to hunt a pup when conditions get tuff.
I used to think I needed to hunt it in all conditions to make it the best it can be. If it was gonna run junk when it couldnt find a coon I wanted to know it and get it broke. If it didnt hunt deep enough I would work on that. If it treed empty too much in those conditions Id try to correct it.

I then gradualy changed my thinking to I was asking too much from an imature hound in poor conditions and there was just no way the pup was gonna look good no matter how hard it tried. There is just no substitute for age in most pups ability to develop its God given talents into a mature coondog. I thought I could do the pup better by hunting it late at nite when it would get after some bad tracks instead of hunting it when there were no tracks.

A buddy and I have been discussing this the past week. We are hunting littermates that turned a yr old last week and have been treeing coon alone for several months but now that the weather and coon have been getting tougher, they are struggling. I just wondered what the opinions of otheres on this board were on this particular subject. Thanks for the replys.

Who are you and what have you done with Elvis????

LOL

I think thats the most I ever heard you type or say at one time.

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Posted by plottfever on 11-21-2008 10:29 PM:

When is Elvis going to respond, I am ready to here it.

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Posted by Maniac on 11-21-2008 10:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by plottfever
When is Elvis going to respond, I am ready to here it.

as soon as he wakes up from his GRAVE. lol

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Posted by blueticker on 11-21-2008 10:39 PM:

You will have to evaluate the young dog. If the dog is treeing a coon or two when you take them in bad condtions keep hunting it.
If you hunt the pup a few times and it fails to tree a coon don't hunt it until the better nights. It certainly won't harm the pup not to be hunted.

Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 11-21-2008 10:57 PM:

Ive got an opinion just like everyone but this is a tough call not being there with the dog. From what you have said about the dog I wouldnt hunt him much when the nights are long and hard. There are more bad habits learned on nights like this that any other. Thats just one of a million lessons ive learned in my 25 years plus of learning this game called hunting. Its one thing to just have a tuff night, heck we all have them! But when the coons just arent running it sure seems like the habits these young dogs pick up take alot longer to break that the few night they would have been layed up.

Im sure you have made up your mind on what your goona do and this is just my opinion as you asked.

Chris Sutton

Posted by ohiothunder on 11-21-2008 11:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
I TREE FIVE LAST NITE.

Do you want a cookie?

Posted by Maniac on 11-21-2008 11:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Big_Jake
Do you want a cookie?

give me a COOKIE. DO WANT A COON DOG? LOOKS LIKE YOU MIGHT NEED ONE!!!!

Posted by MikeO on 11-21-2008 11:08 PM:

i would hunt it weather permitting. that's how i was taught to handle a young dog, right or wrong? i aint got no idea!

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Posted by MillsEnglish on 11-21-2008 11:51 PM:

six inches snow i wouldnt be out hunting but, coons are dogged hard here year round. In reference to what smokey said I will say that he is telling the truth you can pick a dog up 4 miles away and never get a bark down south even though he left out kentucky in his list of states...up northern ky and western...great hunting but here I would love for someone to bring down the best they got and show me 6 coon in a night in the winter. I assure you that hound would be worth more than anyone would be willing to give for a dog cause I have hunted with over 300 dogs in the past some mine some not and I havent seen more than 4 coon hunting dark till daylight.

The troubles finding coon we go through that EVERY night. Now snow...i know the coon dont move well if at all in cold cold weather and adverse conditions. So before we go there I do know this. Its the same here. But, on any given night their not gravy here. A close hunter here is a cull year round. Thats just the way it is and I hate it being that way but, it is what it is and if you feel you can prove me otherwise then bed and breakfast and a place to live for a few days we will go hunting spring, summer, fall or winter.

I know how bitter cold it gets up north and snow....we get adverse conditions here and though their not extreme as your conditions 19 here is like -5 there and effects the coon hunting in that way as well. By no means do they move every night here either and certainly nobody assumes this and if you do then your assuming wrong. But if they have not been on the ground you cant tree them so thats accurate as well.

Please dont think I am directing this toward anyone specific I am just stating hunting here and there in a total aspect is like flying in from a different planet both ways. Up north we tree them like popcorn but we pick good weather for our travels up north so we usually dont hunt your big snows. But any time of year its like that here.

Posted by Jake Appel on 11-21-2008 11:53 PM:

MARV

I THINK SO MUCH OF WHAT MOVES THESE YOUNG DOGS ALONG OR NOT IS CONFIDENCE. TO ME THEY WILL ONLY GAIN CONFIDENCE IF PUT IN SITUATIONS THEY CAN ACCEL IN. SO MY OPINION HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO NOT HUNT A PUP THAT IS STILL UNSEASONED IN POOR CONDITIONS CAUSE YOU ARE SETTING THEM UP FOR FAILURE AND IN TURN DAMAGING THEIR CONFIDENCE. WHEN YOU WERE YOUNGER AND IN SPORTS IN SCHOOL I AM SURE YOU PLAYED YOUR BEST WHEN YOU WERE CONFIDENT, AND SLUMPED WHEN CONFIDENCE WAS DOWN....SAME SITUATION. NEXT YEAR AS A 2 YEAR OLD IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY.----JMO

PS--I AM EXPERIENCING THE EXACT SAME THING WITH 2 YOUNG DOGS, 16 AND 18 MO OLD.

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Posted by Jonathan Crump on 11-21-2008 11:56 PM:

Run the pup- conditions favorable 4 coon

. I have a 15 month old dog that was rescued and givin to me at aprox. 6 wks old and he is just starting to track and tree though not every drop progress is being made but when I go to the woods so does he.

Posted by JefferyAntes on 11-22-2008 12:32 AM:

I've hunted 2 nights this week and going again tonight , Razor is a year and he works till he hits making him a little deeper but he works out close then goes has far as he has to its working good for me, because he asn't been very deep hunter so far I tree a couple and come home leave the woods on a good note. He just mite make a coon dog ye.23 degrees and wind blowing.

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Posted by Maniac on 11-22-2008 12:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MillsEnglish
six inches snow i wouldnt be out hunting but, coons are dogged hard here year round. In reference to what smokey said I will say that he is telling the truth you can pick a dog up 4 miles away and never get a bark down south even though he left out kentucky in his list of states...up northern ky and western...great hunting but here I would love for someone to bring down the best they got and show me 6 coon in a night in the winter. I assure you that hound would be worth more than anyone would be willing to give for a dog cause I have hunted with over 300 dogs in the past some mine some not and I havent seen more than 4 coon hunting dark till daylight.

The troubles finding coon we go through that EVERY night. Now snow...i know the coon dont move well if at all in cold cold weather and adverse conditions. So before we go there I do know this. Its the same here. But, on any given night their not gravy here. A close hunter here is a cull year round. Thats just the way it is and I hate it being that way but, it is what it is and if you feel you can prove me otherwise then bed and breakfast and a place to live for a few days we will go hunting spring, summer, fall or winter.

I know how bitter cold it gets up north and snow....we get adverse conditions here and though their not extreme as your conditions 19 here is like -5 there and effects the coon hunting in that way as well. By no means do they move every night here either and certainly nobody assumes this and if you do then your assuming wrong. But if they have not been on the ground you cant tree them so thats accurate as well.

Please dont think I am directing this toward anyone specific I am just stating hunting here and there in a total aspect is like flying in from a different planet both ways. Up north we tree them like popcorn but we pick good weather for our travels up north so we usually dont hunt your big snows. But any time of year its like that here.

wheres the 6 inches of snow? last i new their was 2 to 3 inches which isnt bad to hunt in . the cold is whats bad. i decided not to hunt tonite it 19 out right now. low 13 coons will be in dens tonite i dout if they even come down. they can usely lay up for a month around here before they half to feed. with it being this cold. bur bur.

Posted by Dogwhisper on 11-22-2008 12:56 AM:

I for one have learned to "coonhunt smarter/not harder". Picking & chooseing the younguns' exposure.I'll hunt it spareing.
Laying the the youngun up awhile. What he's doing now, he'll do again.
Why create a problem when it can be avoided all together?
Pounding it thru these tough nites.
Don't get me wrong.
Youngun will get hunted on these cold nites (one & done),spareing.

Posted by MillsEnglish on 11-22-2008 01:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
wheres the 6 inches of snow? last i new their was 2 to 3 inches which isnt bad to hunt in . the cold is whats bad. i decided not to hunt tonite it 19 out right now. low 13 coons will be in dens tonite i dout if they even come down. they can usely lay up for a month around here before they half to feed. with it being this cold. bur bur.

Im just saying i dont know how much they ended up with in parts of north but i know generally it snows some good snows up there. I think sometimes when its real cold like that coon hit out in daylight as ive seen a lot of them in VERY cold deer hunting mornings. We only got an inch but its enough to lay me up for the night and 15 for the low here tonight so im sure nothing will be moving tonight. Oak Ridge had stated it snowed 5-6 inches of snow so I assumed thats what they got.

Posted by Maniac on 11-22-2008 01:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MillsEnglish
Im just saying i dont know how much they ended up with in parts of north but i know generally it snows some good snows up there. I think sometimes when its real cold like that coon hit out in daylight as ive seen a lot of them in VERY cold deer hunting mornings. We only got an inch but its enough to lay me up for the night and 15 for the low here tonight so im sure nothing will be moving tonight. Oak Ridge had stated it snowed 5-6 inches of snow so I assumed thats what they got.

im not bashing oak ridge but there is not 6 inches snow here. 2 3 inches. but i under ever thing you have said.

Posted by elvis on 11-22-2008 01:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
im not bashing oak ridge but there is not 6 inches snow here. 2 3 inches. but i under ever thing you have said.

Jay
I havent been south today, but 1/2 hr west of here they got 12-14 inches. Teagarden area.
Bender told me he had 4-5 inches on his farm by you.

Posted by Randy Tallon on 11-22-2008 01:28 AM:

A young dog needs to be in a "win" environment. A "win" requires a positive situation. Is it a positive situation that results in a "win" for the dog???...................

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Posted by Maniac on 11-22-2008 01:41 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
Jay
I havent been south today, but 1/2 hr west of here they got 12-14 inches. Teagarden area.
Bender told me he had 4-5 inches on his farm by you.

marv we got 2 3 inches at the most. i know farler north they got more. bender needs a tape mager. or yard stick.

Posted by Roger Wilson on 11-22-2008 02:48 AM:

Just my two cents worth I believe that with a dog that young quality hunting is better than quantity hunting. An exagerated example would be to take a really good hound to the Sahara desert and hunted him/her every night I think eventually the dog would just quit hunting all together and a young dog will give up alot quicker.

Posted by Danny Glista on 11-22-2008 03:06 AM:

Real simple and quick!!

Pups or young hounds which ever you prefer to call them all have one thing in common!! They are like kids when young and learning. First they have to learn to crawl before they walk and I have never seen one run that never learned to walk before hand. A youngster has all it's life to progress into a world class hound but if you force him to try and run before he's walking real, real good more times then not will set them back or create some things you won't want to see!!! Have you ever went in to see what kind of track a pup was trying to run in snow to see if it was a coon and then only to notice it was a coon and he couldn't handle the condtions and he was working it backwords!! Be honest now!! It will happen and has!! I have seen it!! I like to hunt them when the conditions favor a positive outcome for the one being hunted, not what I want or have to see for myself!! JMO!! Be smart and wize!!

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Posted by Will Walker on 11-22-2008 03:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
I'd think you'd try to pick the nights you hunted him so you could stack the odds in your favor. I wouldn't stop hunting him all the time.. If you see that is going to be 15 tonight but tomorrow night its suppose to be the the 20's I'd wait and hunt him tomorrow night.

But what do I know?????

What does Mr. Elvis do though?

i agree 100%. i have a nice house bred female that is turnin it on real good but now its cold as heck and im not wastin my time out freezin to death wonderin why shes not treein anything. next week its gonna warm up some here and i will hunt her some more. i will pick my nights until the snow is here to stay then i wont hunt her but maybe once a week till spring.

Posted by on 11-22-2008 03:40 AM:

This a good discussion. Lots of different opinions.
I'm hunting a pup just shy of being 11 mos old. She didn't show much interest at first but just recently came on and is progressing fast. I've hunted her 10 nights since she first showed signs of being interested in becoming a coon dog. Tonight I hunted her alone and she was struck and treed with a coon in less than 10 minutes. I'm sure I was grinning ear to ear.
I was thinking about this topic and decided to call it quits for the night.
Deer season is in full swing here, "If its brown, its down" season starts in the morning. I figured I might as well quit while I was ahead for tonight anyway. I plan on pushing her a little more tommorow.
She isn't the best young dog I've ever had but she is better than the last one. I'm excited about her.

Posted by Will Walker on 11-22-2008 03:59 AM:

im takin my daughter out in the morning for " if its brown its down season" then i will hunt my pup tomorrow too marc. good luck with your pup!!

Posted by buckeyebuck on 11-22-2008 04:20 AM:

I learned my lesson on this in the last couple nights with my 11month old. First night 20degrees and frost. First drop treed with coon, second drop den, third drop den, fourth drop deer. The 2 dens where cold tracks took a while to get treed. He hasnt ran a deer since he was 7 months old, I would cut right into deer just to see if would run them after I shocked him a few times and he would run right by them. Should of quit after the first den. Tonight first three trees had coon he was doing a reel good job. Then the temprature droped into the teens with some wind. Fourth drop not a peep out of him in a pretty big woods. Fifth drop he hunted for a while and was headed back towards me and started running a rabbit I know because I seen the rabbit. This was the first time he has ever done that. Got greedy should have stopped after the third coon.

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