UKC Forums - would you try to fix this if this was your dog?? how?

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-- would you try to fix this if this was your dog?? how? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=220790)

Posted by smokey7 on 07-30-2008 04:22 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
What do you mean " You did the right thing"?
Pawning him off on someone else is what you'd call " the right thing "? The only thing worse would have been to pawn him off on a kid.

What I would have done was make sure the dog came to me when I called him. And then , every time he left the tree I would call him back and tell him to " get on that tree " ( or whatever ). After 2 or 3 times ( letting him know what you want ) , I'd start with the shock collar when he left.
Then , if that didn't work , I would do the " really " right thing.

Allright, first of all let me clarify something here. The man that took the dog from me had been hunting with the dog before several times and knew EXACTLY what was wrong with the dog and believed he had enough potential that he could fix what was wrong. I DID NOT "PAWN THE DOG OFF" on someone else as in i take that as saying I tricked someone into takeing something that they DID NOT KNOW they was getting. That did not happen. Period. All i wanted to know was whether or not yall thought this could be fixed and if you would have tried or not. That's all.

Posted by smokey7 on 07-30-2008 06:51 AM:

btt

Posted by wayne f on 07-30-2008 07:01 AM:

i really think a lot of people should be culled more so than ill trained hounds or at least they should be removed from the gene pool.
been around the coonhoung game a long time and seea awful lot of hounds ruined by the person training them
those of you that say a coonhound is born not made don't know very much about hounds i can count one one hand the hounds that naturaly know what there supposed to hunt the best dogs i have seen sure had natural ability but very few knew instintiyely what they were supposed to hunt.

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Posted by JONAH on 07-30-2008 09:01 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
It's been my experience that the only folks that would take a dog like that on are newer hunters that think they can cure everything.
Guys who have been into hounds for as many years as I have wouldn't take him because we've learned.
.

Well Bob I bought my first hounds in 1976. So I'm not a newbie by no means. They were an 8 year old Bluetick male and a 4 year old Redtick male that was just plain mean.
If you let the Blue dog out of the dog box first the Redtick would come out of the box and grab the Blue dog and try to eat him alive but if you let the Redtick out first he didn't even look @ the Blue dog. Then about the third time that happened (when I forgot which side I put them in) and then he growled at my 4 year old cousin the next day him and I went for a ride and only I came home.
I guess you could say that I "culled" him. Basically, I blew his brains out !! There has been alot of dogs that I have given up on but I gave them to someone and they always knew what they were getting. Unless they were ill (only 1 or 2). Some went to a dog trader. But I was always a hunter not a breeder.

Posted by mjflores on 07-30-2008 02:15 PM:

and the junk ones that went to dog traders ended up being sold as "coondogs" to unsuspecting hunters. If a guy cant cull a dog, he shouldn't get into them in the first place! I believe that with every bone in my body. It aint easy but it has to be done. People will turn against ya but the hell with them. Taking the wussy way out only gets the dog traded around, or worse bred..then the cycle repeats itself 8 times more for every worthless pup born. It's hard enough to get a good hound, if people would cull allot more hounds would turn out as good ones.

Again, if you dont have the stomach for it, take up golf and do everyone a favor.

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Posted by JONAH on 07-30-2008 03:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
and the junk ones that went to dog traders ended up being sold as "coondogs" to unsuspecting hunters. If a guy cant cull a dog, he shouldn't get into them in the first place! I believe that with every bone in my body. It aint easy but it has to be done. People will turn against ya but the hell with them. Taking the wussy way out only gets the dog traded around, or worse bred..then the cycle repeats itself 8 times more for every worthless pup born. It's hard enough to get a good hound, if people would cull allot more hounds would turn out as good ones.

Again, if you dont have the stomach for it, take up golf and do everyone a favor.

What imaginary world do you live in there ? Thats like saying every car should be a Cadillac and every job should pay $30 dollars an hour! Like that will ever happen ! They will be cloning hounds before long and then there will never be another worthless hound. (Actually that dont sound to bad !LOL) then everyone will have the same caliber of hound all night hunts will end in a tie, every bench show will have nothing but grand champions. No more worring about breeding to the right or wrong hound, no more breeding period. Just take your hound down to the local vet and get another one just like the one you got. Yeah I see what your saying. Wow what a perfect world !
So see every thing right down to your bones is going to be alright in the future. Lets try to have a little fun while we can !!!!! OK !

Oh BTW Hang on to your perfect hound that everybody is gonna want with your culling program cause I am sure everybody is gonna want one just like yours !!!LOL

Posted by josh on 07-30-2008 04:18 PM:

Some fixes will work on some dogs, But I have yet to see anyone that can consistantly "mold" a majority of dogs they train.

Every dog is different...I wish I could try some things I have learned on dogs long ago culled, but thats life...

Bottom line...Its your time, your choice.

If you want to believe you can fix every problem every dog has, I wish you luck, If you dont, I understand that also.

Posted by smokey7 on 07-30-2008 04:59 PM:

As far as this problem goes basically what i've been told is to follow after the dog as close as you can when its hunting and trailing and then when it leaves the tree try to run him down and ambush the dog and punish him for it and put him back on the tree. Maybe that works but to me it sounds like trying to get oil from a waterspout.

Posted by mpondr310 on 07-30-2008 10:52 PM:

I dont agree with giving to dog away, however I had a walker that did the same thing when she was with other dogs.

It made me irate so for about a week I tied her up at the tree and shot the coon out. I never let her get her grubby little mouth on any one. After that week, you couldn't bribe that dog off the tree.

Posted by GA DAWG on 07-31-2008 01:33 AM:

I can put up with alot of things BUT a dog treeing and not staying is right up there around the top of the list for crap I cant tollerate!!!!!!!!

Posted by MN blue on 07-31-2008 04:59 AM:

Cull????

This does not sound like a cull dog. It sounds like a good young dog that needs a little bit of tuning. At 18 months its not bad its the hounds that are going on 3 or 4 or 5 for that matter that will not even bark at a caged coon that people send for training. The train of thought is he/she will come around its a coon dog!!!!!!

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Posted by roughcreek on 07-31-2008 05:38 PM:

18 months old, will stay treed 5 to 10 minutes. i dont see a cull, i see a dog that can be fixed !!

Posted by mjflores on 07-31-2008 05:44 PM:

I'd pay good money to see anyone REALLY fix that in a hound. Everyone is an expert trainer on these forums.

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Posted by JONAH on 07-31-2008 10:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
I'd pay good money.............

Maybe thats what makes it easier to cull one !!!!!!!

quote:
[i]Everyone is an expert trainer on these forums. [/B]

You included !

Posted by mjflores on 07-31-2008 11:56 PM:

Jonah, you're obviously one of those soft hearted, cry over spilt milk wussy's I referred to in my post above. Do us all a favor and move on to golf, or take up needle point...again! It's people like you who just pass junk around, or "donate" it to a youth, etc. when it should have been removed from the world's gene-pool. Culling isn't easy, it's a taboo, but it's an absolute must. If you dont have the stones between you legs...move on to poodles and do everyone a favor. This will probably make you cry...and put you in the need for a hug, but dog sports aint the place for skirt wearing limp wristed wusses.

If a hound cant stay treed for more than 5 minutes...it's junk. If anyone here has to beg a hound to tree, or stay treed, they're crazy. There's a hound born every second that wont require that non sense. You obviosuly have a whole yard full of trash running, tree leaving, babbling, face barking, "almost there" wonder dogs..great for you!

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-01-2008 12:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
Jonah, you're obviously one of those soft hearted, cry over spilt milk wussy's I referred to in my post above. Do us all a favor and move on to golf, or take up needle point...again! It's people like you who just pass junk around, or "donate" it to a youth, etc. when it should have been removed from the world's gene-pool. Culling isn't easy, it's a taboo, but it's an absolute must. If you dont have the stones between you legs...move on to poodles and do everyone a favor. This will probably make you cry...and put you in the need for a hug, but dog sports aint the place for skirt wearing limp wristed wusses.

If a hound cant stay treed for more than 5 minutes...it's junk. If anyone here has to beg a hound to tree, or stay treed, they're crazy. There's a hound born every second that wont require that non sense. You obviosuly have a whole yard full of trash running, tree leaving, babbling, face barking, "almost there" wonder dogs..great for you!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm with you...I aint wasting my time on one that cant stay treed.SPECIALLY a BLUEDOG!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by JONAH on 08-01-2008 12:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
Jonah, you're obviously one of those soft hearted, cry over spilt milk wussy's I referred to in my post above. Do us all a favor and move on to golf, or take up needle point...again! It's people like you who just pass junk around, or "donate" it to a youth, etc. when it should have been removed from the world's gene-pool. Culling isn't easy, it's a taboo, but it's an absolute must. If you dont have the stones between you legs...move on to poodles and do everyone a favor. This will probably make you cry...and put you in the need for a hug, but dog sports aint the place for skirt wearing limp wristed wusses.

If a hound cant stay treed for more than 5 minutes...it's junk. If anyone here has to beg a hound to tree, or stay treed, they're crazy. There's a hound born every second that wont require that non sense. You obviosuly have a whole yard full of trash running, tree leaving, babbling, face barking, "almost there" wonder dogs..great for you!

mjflores Sir, I apologize for thinking all these years that I was a Coon hunter I came to the realization after reading your last post that I am not worthy of that. After reading your post I became so upset that I spilled my milk.
Then after that I went out to take my golf cart off the trailer and realized that on the way home from the golf course the seatcovers that I spent months sewing had blown off.

As I was unloading my golf I ran over my favorite poodle and "culled" it. It would have never happened if my wrist had been stronger. But I am a much better man for doing it .

Well in closing I better go figure out which hounds I am going to give away at the youth rally. I will keep in mind what you said though. I may even have it etched in to my grave stones since it is a concrete cast from my waist down.

So until next time take care of yourself. You are so needed by all the youth and unsuspecting novice coon hunters young and old alike. Oh and lets not forget the breeding program you have come to cherish.

PS Wonderdog is the best hound that I have and I will be putting him to sleep in the morning !!!!!!

And GA DAWG I dont blame you for taking mjflores side.

Posted by Maniac on 08-01-2008 01:02 AM:

Re: would you try to fix this if this was your dog?? how?

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
Allright, I gave up on this dog and let a guy have him. He's still the same dog last i talked to the guy. The dog was a bluetick male that was 18 months old when i gave him away. Beautifull dog. Huge bawl mouth. Hunted great, ran track fantastic, and would tree a coon with other dogs or on his own. Trouble is, with or without other dog's he wouldn't stay on the tree more than maybe 5 or 10 minutes at the very most. He'd just take off and run another track off somewhere else. Truth is, MOST of the time he'd only stay treeing 2 or 3 minutes. Nothing but a headache all the way around. The guy that has him still has not got it fixed. Would any of you guys try and if so how???

YOU SHOULD NOT OF TOLD WHAT COLOR THE HOUND WAS. CAUSE YOU HAVE ALOT OF WALKER PEOPLE THAT ARE COLOR BLIND REPLYING. JUST LIKE I SAID I WISH I HAD THE DOG. AND I WOULD SHOW YOU THAT IT COULD BE FIX. CAUSE HE CAN TREE AND IT SOUND LIKE HE NEEDS TO BUILD UP HIS CONFINDENTS . CAUSE THE TREE IS THERE.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-01-2008 01:11 AM:

I think I'm the only color blind one replying..These other guys were just talking about hounds in general lol.....

Posted by smokey7 on 08-01-2008 05:07 AM:

The feller that got him thought he seen enough potential in him that he was worth takeing and so he took him. That was several months ago. So far, last i heard, the dog ain't fixed yet.

Posted by MN blue on 08-01-2008 05:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
I'd pay good money to see anyone REALLY fix that in a hound. Everyone is an expert trainer on these forums.

Get out your checkbook I'd fix him. The dog Knows what a tree is he needs to be taught to stay until you take him off the tree.

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Posted by smokey7 on 08-01-2008 06:06 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MN blue
Get out your checkbook I'd fix him. The dog Knows what a tree is he needs to be taught to stay until you take him off the tree.

well now, reading all these posts i should have either sold him to one of yall for big money or either payed one of you a little money to fix him for me. LOL LOL

Posted by blake jones on 08-01-2008 02:14 PM:

an old school coonhunter once told me that a hound trees out of instinct and is taught to stay. I had one that would stay treed for about 5 and then go look for another track. he was a first and first type of hound. this went on for several months, i tried tying him at the tree, shooting coon out to other hounds, and buzzing him with a shock collar when he left. not much luck. went to a local hunt, he left 3 trees that night and had firsts on all of them. on the 3rd tree I withdrew him and took him off to the side and lost my temper (stomped the s&%t out of him). he would not come to me in the pen for about three days. he has not left a tree that he locked down on right since (he is now 3). he was about 13 months when this started and about 21 months when we had our heart to heart. I don't like this method but he was about to be culled. the hound did know he was supposed to be at the tree when I got there, he just thought he could do what he wanted to.

Posted by mjflores on 08-01-2008 02:21 PM:

Like I said, everyone is an expert trainer on here.

Why dont you share your "get the hound that wont stay treed to all of a sudden get and stay treed" secret? We all cant wait to hear about it.

I've heard some crazy ways on here of how to do it. When the hound leaves run and get him and put it back? How can you run in 1/4 mile or more, catch the dog, and bring it back to the tree they were treed on. Do people have magic teleporters that I'm not aware of? Can people see through 1/4 mile of woods and know exactly whats happening..including knowing the exact tree they were on and left? You're gonna call your dog back out of the woods and show them the correct tree to be on? So...you're gonna find a coon, tree it, then call your dog to the tree? Aint it supposed to work the other way around? All this will do is make a dog lazy, the hound learns not to hunt hard. Dont bother getting treed doggy, just run around out there having fun...or just hang around with the dummy in the bib overalls wearing a light bulb on his head, he'll do all the work.

Tie the dog back and give another dog the coon...most dogs that leave trees usually stay when they're with another dog...so then what? Shoot the coon out and give it to yourself? Shoot it out and give it to nobody? Maybe just wing the coon and then tell the tree-leaver that you would have dropped him out with that shot had he not left the tree after 5 minutes?

Ok, I'm done..and I am looking forward to hearing about the magic training secret that easily makes a genetically lazy hound who leaves trees into a slobber slinging, tree hammerin, stays treed no matter how long kinda tree dog. This is gonna be awesome! May the learning begin.

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Posted by JONAH on 08-01-2008 02:59 PM:

TO THE NUMBER 1 TRAINER.......

quote:
Originally posted by mjflores
#1) Like I said, everyone is an expert trainer on here.
#2)We all cant wait to hear about it.
#3)Ok, I'm done.... May the learning begin.

#1) But your number 1 !

#2) We? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

#3) I doubt that very much !!!!!!

Sorry Charlie but some people make coonhounds better and some just buy them when they are finished. Guess you wouldn't know what goes into training much. Seems to me that you only buy finished hounds cause you would "cull" one that was just started or needed some training! JMO though !

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