UKC Forums - Questions about UKC PP World Hunt.

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-- Questions about UKC PP World Hunt. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=218697)

Posted by Brad Bax on 07-23-2008 06:04 PM:

I agree the running styles are different as well as the judging procedures in the field. The bench show is judged from the Breed Standard. Which is the same no matter which format you are running. So if you had 2 WSHCH's that are judged on the exact same breed standard and bench show rules"What have you proved"?

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Posted by Brad Bax on 07-23-2008 06:27 PM:

Re: Show

quote:
Originally posted by Roy Pasmore
The problem as I see it . To compete and win in the hunting beagle forum. You have to have A front running dog with A handler with the phyiscal ability to keep up with the other handlers and he or she must know the rules well enough to com
pete wirh the other handlers on calls.
Now to compete in performance pack you must have a pack dog.

I have only ran the HB format, but I personaly like a dog that gets out front and drives hard. I don't mind a loss as long as they get it back quick and get going. You do have to know the rules. But in PP with the judge down in the woods by him self. What's going to keep him from giving you the shaft so that his buddy's dog can win?

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Posted by tjcrewse on 07-23-2008 11:58 PM:

Re: Re: Show

quote:
Originally posted by Brad Bax
I have only ran the HB format, but I personaly like a dog that gets out front and drives hard. I don't mind a loss as long as they get it back quick and get going. You do have to know the rules. But in PP with the judge down in the woods by him self. What's going to keep him from giving you the shaft so that his buddy's dog can win?

All the PP trials we have attended have never felt that way and if you do feel that way you can always volunteer to be an active handler and go right along with the judge.

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Posted by Stony Branch on 07-24-2008 03:20 AM:

Re: Re: Show

quote:
Originally posted by Brad Bax
But in PP with the judge down in the woods by him self. What's going to keep him from giving you the shaft so that his buddy's dog can win?

Im not sure what that has to do with the World hunt or the World Show but you opened this can of worms.
Whats going to stop a judge and one of his buddies in the same Hunting Beagle cast of giving you the shaft?????
There is nothing thats going to keep either from happening except its the clubs and the MOH responsibility to select competent and trustworthy judges. There are crooks in everything but if the crooks are reported and everyone works together to police each other the cream will rise to the top.
Now I hope we can get back to the subject at hand!

Posted by Sundown Beagles on 07-24-2008 12:26 PM:

What would you think if there was a show at the PP World Hunt with the winner being elidgible to show for the World Show Championship at the HB World?

How would it work?
It would be the same as a regular show in the winners of classes would recieve their show championship points the same as a regular show. The Best of Breed winner would be elidgible for the following years World Show. (Reason is the PP World Hunt is after the HB World Hunt)
This would solve the issue of a not attending a WQE to get qualified.

Posted by Don Wells on 07-24-2008 03:09 PM:

In that case I think we should show them in the same year (a lot can happen in 8 or 10 months).

I still think it would be better to have a PP World Champ and a HB World Champ

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Posted by Brad Bax on 07-24-2008 04:53 PM:

Roy made a couple of comments about why he didn't like te HB format. I was just comenting on something I didn't like about the PP format. I have nothing against the PP format. Wasn't opening a can of worms.
I think Dave had a good suggestion.
I really don't see the point of having 2 WSCH's based on the same standard in the same year. I only think it would hurt the prestige of the title.

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Posted by Sundown Beagles on 07-24-2008 05:06 PM:

AS STATED BY FARMERWELLS - "In that case I think we should show them in the same year (a lot can happen in 8 or 10m months). "

There are WQE the following month after the World Hunt that are very well attended.

As I stated we need to come together for a solution. In this case I believe your not going to be happy unless there are 2 titles in which case we will have to agree to disagree.

Posted by Glomski on 07-24-2008 05:41 PM:

I like some of these Ideas. I am not a fan of two World Show titles.

What about this...have the Performance Pack World hunt in the spring and then the winners of that bench show are qualified to go to the World Show Finals at the Hunting Beagle World in the fall.

I would like to see the Performance Pack World in the spring anyway, and move the Performance Pack Nationals to the fall. Now this might be a good reason to move thoses two hunts around.

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Posted by tjcrewse on 07-24-2008 06:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Glomski
I like some of these Ideas. I am not a fan of two World Show titles.

What about this...put the Performance Pack World hunt in the spring and then the winners of that bench show are qualified to go to the World Show Finals at the Hunting Beagle World in the fall.

I would like to see the Performance Pack World in the spring anyway, and move the Performance Pack Nationals to the fall. Now this might be a good reason to move thoses two hunts around.

I Could go for that!!!!!

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Posted by Sundown Beagles on 07-24-2008 08:12 PM:

Sounds like it could be a solution.

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 07-24-2008 09:24 PM:

I wouldn't just qualify one dog from the PP World Show, I'd qualify six to move on the world finals. Best male/female, Champ male/female, Grand male/female. Send all six.

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Posted by HBBBLUE on 07-24-2008 09:49 PM:

Its this simple guys.If the PP guys what a world chance at the title come to the HB world and show your dog.Why change the UKC rules.If your worried about it that bad then you'll be there,unless you dont think your hound can perform in HB format,but i dont see why it wouldn't.Not putting anyone or there hound down.Just my opion.

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Posted by Roy Pasmore on 07-24-2008 11:49 PM:

Show

A best male or female win at the PP world qualifies That dog for the UKC world as well as the champions winner . This gives us a show at the PP world hunt.enough said.

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Posted by Jim Stinnett on 07-25-2008 01:41 AM:

Man, all I did was ask a question.

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Posted by Glomski on 07-25-2008 03:10 AM:

good question Jim....lol

Posted by paz on 07-25-2008 05:04 AM:

Re: Re: Show

quote:
Originally posted by Brad Bax
I have only ran the HB format, but I personaly like a dog that gets out front and drives hard. I don't mind a loss as long as they get it back quick and get going. You do have to know the rules. But in PP with the judge down in the woods by him self. What's going to keep him from giving you the shaft so that his buddy's dog can win?

All I can say is go to the PP hunts before you make any statements. I have run in many formats and gave up trialling until the UKC PP hunts. The main reason was that there are great dogs and fair judges.

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Posted by Don Wells on 07-25-2008 01:34 PM:

What I have been trying to say in the above posts is.. I don't see why the only way to have a World Show Champ is through the hunting beagle format. It is not my favorite format but I am very fond of Performance Pack and should have the same oppurtinity to win that title.

Posted by tjcrewse on 07-25-2008 03:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by farmerwells
What I have been trying to say in the above posts is.. I don't see why the only way to have a World Show Champ is through the hunting beagle format. It is not my favorite format but I am very fond of Performance Pack and should have the same oppurtinity to win that title.

I Agree!!!!!
AND i didnt see where it would be that BIG of a Deal to add a PP or HB in front to designate which Format they Won it in...
If they are gonna hold a Performance pack World Hunt then Why caint they have a performance pack World Show Champion PPWORLDSHCH
Or a HBWORLDSHCH for Hunting beagle
heck they do it all the time For conformation Over bench..
CCH Conformation Show CH
CH Bench Show Champion....
Are the Fellas in Hunting beagle Worried that maybe performance pack will get bigger??????

WHY should performance pack have to Cross over into hunting beagle??
Now i do like the idea of the winners in performance pack being able to enter the World Hunt and this will i am Sure bring more people to the hunt so that means more Money....
I Just Do not understand I guess WHY the Worldshow Ch cannot be Shared!!!!!

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Posted by Brad Bax on 07-25-2008 05:12 PM:

Where can I get a copy of the PP Breed Standard?

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Posted by Don Wells on 07-25-2008 05:46 PM:

Standard

quote:
Originally posted by Brad Bax
Where can I get a copy of the PP Breed Standard?

I am not sure what you mean by the PP Breed Standard. The standard is the same for all beagles. See the link from the UKC Beagle page for the standard

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/Beagle

Posted by Sundown Beagles on 07-25-2008 05:53 PM:

Guys this is just what we dont need is PP against HB.

UKC acknowledges only 1 set of show titles in BOTH of their hunting formats. If we can make it where the PP show winner or winners are elidgable to compete for the World show Championship than we have accomplished what we set out to do which was allow the guy/gal who doesnt hunt hunting beagle the chance to compete.

You know in ARHA I hear that the Little Pack guys and the Progressive Pack guys are constantly at odds because each want there own agenda. (this may be hear say) I hope UKC never allows this to happen. I know for a fact when Morgan set PP up this was a big concern how we would co-exist. So far I think it has went extremely well and hope each will continue to support the other.

Remember things have evolved over the years to get to todays rules. UKC has done a good job of making the hound perform in the field in order to show.

I think this was a great question and did bring to the table how we can make UKC better.

Posted by Brad Bax on 07-25-2008 06:12 PM:

Re: Standard

quote:
Originally posted by farmerwells
I am not sure what you mean by the PP Breed Standard. The standard is the same for all beagles. [/url]

You proved my point. Why would you have 2 different UKC world show champions on the same breed standard? You will have twice as many World Show Champions, and before long the title would mean nothing more than being a grand show champion.
Dave,
I agree with you. Hope that doesn't happen. I have heard several ARHA guys talk about the bickering between the formats. Like I said I have nothing against PP. Although I don't think my style of dog would fit in very well, I would like to try one some day.

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Posted by uplander44 on 07-25-2008 08:09 PM:

Show HBvsPP

OK guys:
Its time for my opinion.A couple years ago when Roy Pasmore told me about the PP format starting in the UKC I was elated.Well after running in a few of them I see they have a long way to go,I beleive to get even the type of hound that should be run in that format which I beleive should be like a ARHA progressive pack,or an AKC UBGF type SPO hound, as the rules specify a hound that works a check from the inside out and should be minused and picked up for rough running and generally disrupting the progress of the pack for swinging,skirting and cutting other than in the pack as a gundog type hound should (ETC), some hounds that are being left on the ground need to start being picked up.Now I run AKC SPO trials and let me tell you that there is a BIG difference in a AKC Midwest type SPO hound and an AKC United Beagle Gundog Federation hound.A Midwest hound except for very,very rare exceptions WILL NOT stay on the ground in a UBGF SPO trial,it will usually get picked up within minutes.My point is in the AKC there are several different show formats and the hounds competing in that format are the ones shown.I think it is great that the UKC with the help of Todd Morgan and others,aknowledged a need to make a format for people with a different style of hound.Afterall is that not what its all about?I believe that there can coexist-a world HB show champion as well as a PP World show champion.Afterall if the judges start minusing and picking up some of the hounds that they should I expect that some of the HB guys probably will stop competing PP,and I am not saying that sarcastically but trying to make a point that they should be and really are different style hounds.Afterall you dont see AKC Midwest SPO guys going to AKC UBGF SPO trials just to show their hounds on the bench.Thanks for putting up with my wordiness--Vic

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