UKC Forums - Balls Hickory Nut Harry

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-- Balls Hickory Nut Harry (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=217353)

Posted by Michael Taynor on 07-09-2008 03:43 PM:

Here is my 2cents worth. I think the "power" in Hardwood Bozo came from Melody Bill through his mother Rutans Bear Creek Princess. No I didn't think of that myself, my Uncle Tom Rutan who owned Princess and her mother Bear Creek Pam, hunted with Melody Bill and says that Princess and her offspring down through 4 or 5 generations were built like Melody Bill and for many more generations hunted like Bill. Fast track drivers, hard tree dogs, accurate, not an ill hair. I think Harry was promoted so much he was given much of the credit that should have gone to Melody Bill. I am not taking anything away from Harry, but I still believe Melody Bill deserves more credit.

Michael

Posted by Larry Atherton on 07-09-2008 05:06 PM:

My interest in Harry went back to Ohio Diamond. Diamond was out of Harry and Penny. She and similiar bred dogs crossed really well on Mr. Oliver Close's Jack and Little Jack dogs.

My dogs are back massed on old Jack, and I looked to see what had worked for Mr. Close. As I researched Mr. Close's crosses, it became evident that he used several females that had Harry (usually through Diamond) pretty close.

The long and short of it though is I have never hunted with any dogs directly out of Harry so I don't have such first hand knowledge.

I have heard the issue about agressiveness, but I also heard it went back alittle further too.

As far as pedigrees go, Michael, I believe many dogs don't get their deserved credit because of a more famous dog in the pedigree. That is a part of human nature.

Overall, this is an interesting topic. I am surprised Harry's offspring being hot nosed though. Harry's sire surely wasn't known for being a hot nosed dog. I have never heard of Hershberger dogs being too hot nosed either. Harry has quite of bit of them behind him not too far back. I am not saying it isn't true ... just that it surprises me.

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Posted by Michael Taynor on 07-09-2008 05:30 PM:

Princess and her offspring I have hunted with are all cold nosed.

Michael

Posted by Larry Atherton on 07-09-2008 08:26 PM:

Doug,

All I can do is relate to what I had here at my place through the years, and I have had many more completely laid back easy going dogs than the opposite. One old male I had would let pups play tug-a-war with his ears. I also had 2 here that were triple Jack bred that got ate off a tree by a bear dog, and never treed with a strange dog again. Yes, they weren't competition dogs, but they sure looked good when turned loose in late January.

I can't say anything about a bad rep or heresay ... all I know is what I know.

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Aim small miss small

Posted by CHERRY CREEK on 07-09-2008 08:35 PM:

I have been to Oliver Close's house a few times to hunt and I hunted with little Jack more than any other dog. Little Jack was ouchy around the tree. However, I never seen him just grab a dog and shake them. He would definitley hold his own. One of the best females that I have ever hunted with in my 25 plus years of hunting was a dog named Squaw that Rick Mullins owned and she was off Little Jack. I hunted with her a lot. She was a coon dog from a very young age.

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Posted by chuck west on 12-06-2012 07:01 PM:

Good older post,,,looks like some guys figured things out ,,lol

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Posted by Jackson87 on 12-12-2012 02:56 AM:

Why is it that in every magazine you open you see...Harry this and Harry that and Oh man this dog is double harry bred??Is this just a smoke screen there tryin to brainwash people with EVERY month?

Posted by Larry Atherton on 12-12-2012 03:08 PM:

Jackson,

They aren't talking about the original Harry in the books.

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Posted by Ray&Luie on 12-12-2012 04:27 PM:

Harry

there was a dog down here, in Mobile back in the 80s out of Harry named Alabama River rock, he was chop all the way if i remember right , hard tree dog , red headed like harry built very simular , not a track burner , average id say, was campained by a man in a wheel chair named Bobby Tillman, i saw some of his pups , never was impressed to much by them , but a friend of mine had a hound named Sundown jim out of Coon stopper and harry that could flat run and tree you a coon, he was trashy till he got a little age on him but got better when he was older , never used a E Collor on him as far as i know, still some dog around here that has his blood in them. none had very good mouths other than old jim .....

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Posted by BGathright on 12-12-2012 07:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jackson87
Why is it that in every magazine you open you see...Harry this and Harry that and Oh man this dog is double harry bred??Is this just a smoke screen there tryin to brainwash people with EVERY month?

2 different dogs.

They are talking about Ball's Stylish Hickory Nut Harry, not the original Hickory Nut Harry.

Posted by Jackson87 on 12-13-2012 02:42 AM:

10-4,I see what your saying.Cool old thread with some nice pics of hounds from way back.

Posted by Deron Shuler on 12-13-2012 03:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Taynor
Here is my 2cents worth. I think the "power" in Hardwood Bozo came from Melody Bill through his mother Rutans Bear Creek Princess. No I didn't think of that myself, my Uncle Tom Rutan who owned Princess and her mother Bear Creek Pam, hunted with Melody Bill and says that Princess and her offspring down through 4 or 5 generations were built like Melody Bill and for many more generations hunted like Bill. Fast track drivers, hard tree dogs, accurate, not an ill hair. I think Harry was promoted so much he was given much of the credit that should have gone to Melody Bill. I am not taking anything away from Harry, but I still believe Melody Bill deserves more credit.

Michael

White faced, calico ear, big headed power house reproducer from Hickory Nut Harry?????????? Wont never convince me Harry was his daddy.......No doubt a lot of things went on in those days that we will never know. Possibly Princess and others are for sure to be credited for his success but there was a real power house reproducer in that country in those days. Problem was you just couldnt sale pups from him.....but you could put papers on pups before DNA.....

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Posted by n.cash on 12-14-2012 01:09 PM:

HICKORY NUT

She was out of Harry X Beaver Lake Lou.any info on that cross.

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Posted by Lawsreddog on 05-22-2014 02:33 AM:

harry's dam

wasn't harry's dam clover bred?????

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Posted by msinc on 05-22-2014 02:54 AM:

Re: harry's dam

quote:
Originally posted by Lawsreddog
wasn't harry's dam clover bred?????

I think you are talking about the later "Harry", Stylish Harry. Owens Hardwood Bozo was Clovers sire and a puppy of Ball's Hickory Nut Harry {the older one} so his mom couldn't be Clover bred...Clover wasn't thought of yet back then.
You gotta be over at least 50 to have even remembered the dogs being talked about on this thread.

Posted by stonehill on 05-22-2014 03:01 AM:

Stylish Harry had a clover bred mother. The original Balls Hickory Nut Harry had a mother named Balls Candy who was a daughter of what I consider the greatest stud dog of all time , the great Hershbergers Oklahoma Spot.
I disagree with those of you who thought old Harry put too much trailing type dog in his pups , they would cold trail but they also would have a coon when they treed. I know that to suit me our current walkers need more of this trait.

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Posted by Lawsreddog on 05-22-2014 03:08 AM:

well IM not 50

But my Dad and uncle bred alot of dogs off balls harry so I dont k ow too much about the walkers. But theyve told me alot so it was the 2ND Harrys dam that was clover bred.

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Posted by tarriverwalkers on 05-22-2014 03:30 AM:

NITECH(3WIN GRAND)CH PKC CH PR HARRY FOCKER

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Posted by msinc on 05-22-2014 08:32 PM:

Re: well IM not 50

quote:
Originally posted by Lawsreddog
But my Dad and uncle bred alot of dogs off balls harry so I dont k ow too much about the walkers. But theyve told me alot so it was the 2ND Harrys dam that was clover bred.

Yep, that's the one...the names make things confusing. It don't help that they were both very popular dogs and you see them in a lot of pedigrees. It's kinda scary when you go back 6 generations on a pedigree and see all the same dogs top and bottom. I have always heard that it's not good to breed them too tight but that seems like exactly what is happening.

Posted by tarriverwalkers on 05-24-2014 01:18 PM:

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