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-- Randy Sexton's December Article (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=178836)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by elvis
[B]hmmm
for some reason i have never felt the need to add a shot of black and tan to what i was hunting.

randy sure stirred up a hornets nest by posting facts.



This is the part that makes it stupid..Ol Elivs here thinks the whole thing is funny when in all reality if the shoe where on the other foot it'd be different,but the shoe is on BOTH breeds here cause hes taking Black and Tan and Walkers and creating dogs that you ca'nt hunt in UKC anyway,untill ol' joe blo dog trader finds one that looks like a Walker (or Black and Tan) and puts a set of papers on it and calls it a hound,then someone takes this female that looks like a Walker and breeds it to Elvis(or Rocket) and.........we start all over agian.I think the worst part of this is we got Walker and Black and Tan guys fighting now over something this dumb...

__________________
"Ozarks Coonbustin X-Chance"
(GrNt TW x NtCh B&T)

417-439-1381

quote:

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Originally posted by jerry chapman
[QUOTE]Originally posted by elvis
[B]hmmm
for some reason i have never felt the need to add a shot of black and tan to what i was hunting.

randy sure stirred up a hornets nest by posting facts.



This is the part that makes it stupid..Ol Elivs here thinks the whole thing is funny when in all reality if the shoe where on the other foot it'd be different,but the shoe is on BOTH breeds here cause hes taking Black and Tan and Walkers and creating dogs that you ca'nt hunt in UKC anyway,untill ol' joe blo dog trader finds one that looks like a Walker (or Black and Tan) and puts a set of papers on it and calls it a hound,then someone takes this female that looks like a Walker and breeds it to Elvis(or Rocket) and.........we start all over agian.I think the worst part of this is we got Walker and Black and Tan guys fighting now over something this dumb...

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quote:

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Originally posted by elvis
well,stop and think about it for a minute.
he wants to take the best of the walker blood and put it in a black and tan.

what i cant figure out is why all the black and tan breeders are upset. it certainly is not the first time its been done.
should we post the percentage of non-black n tan blood in most of your "purebred" breeding stock again?

it seems if anyone would be upset it should be the walker breeders that have spent a lifetime striveing to build a better treeing walker.

so tell me,why is it that Randys ideas have riled the black n tan folks,and not the walker?

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__________________
"Ozarks Coonbustin X-Chance"
(GrNt TW x NtCh B&T)

417-439-1381

think about it where did the waker dog start the walker dog started back in the 19th century with the english foxhound and the old tennessee lead dog that was what color black and tan .

quote:

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Originally posted by jerry chapman
Elvis tell us just what is the "best" walker blood Randy is looking for? and why would he want the "best" walker blood to put into what black and tan? what good would he get out of the "best" walker and an "inbred" black and tan? please tell us

and while your at it do you really think your walkers are any more pure than the black and tans? thier coonhounds....period!!!

I'm not upset with Randy,i like him alot hes a nice guy.i just do'nt agree with him.....not trying to stop him

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__________________
Saline Creek Kennels
Black&Tans since 1977
#573-392-7119 cell 573-286-0431
Home of bunch of lowbred culls;
Saline Creek Smokin Sheba (DualGrCh Osage Stinger Joe x DualGrCh Schenker's Smokin Cindy)
Saline Creek Reba II (GrCh North Rivers Hard Cola (albert, medicine man bred) x Saline Creek Reba (Sheba's sister)
Saline Creek Beau (Millers Midnight Harry, (Eads bred) x Beauty, Myers/ Sting bred) co owner Will Simpson
GrNiteCh Chenoweths Cheyenne
NiteCh Party Queen (GrNiteCh Duelin Dan x GrNiteCh Ruby 2)
Mandy (littermate to Thunderstick & Lil Ann)
Saline Creek Jenna Jameson (GrNiteCh Kansas Hayes x GrNiteCh Dixie Gem) co owners Scott Rodden, Kyle Sears

Yall gonna have to wait until Hardrock at least retires from winning everything to tell folks that Walker/B&T's don't work.

I'd love to see more colored dog breeders be as passionate against "brood bitches" and " it don't matter , as long as it's black " ... or " 1 1/2 year old STUD dog " .

Or ... how about cracking down on all the 6-12 month old pups for sale that we were so high on at weaning age and now they are for sale to "make room " or " needs hunted and I have another puppy " .

If you aint hunting the pup you got , why get another ? ..... it's the disease taking hold .... seek help from someone who doesn't hunt and ask them for an intervention.

"Cutting back " or "Slimming down" sales ,lol .... if we're gonna have breed police lets enforce the laws we already got ... like these are hunting dogs , if you aint gonna hunt them then quit getting them just to let sit and then try to peddle.

One of my favorites .... " Those should be good bred pups " . Let's ban folks from posting anything about how good pups will be unless you have hunted extensively with the parents .... how can anyone with at least an average IQ say that some pups will be good ones without ever having seen the parents , the pups or the conditions they are being whelped in .

Yall wanna better the breed ...... let's crack down , I'm all for it . We'll actually start with our OWN kennels and our OWN breed first ... when we get all that in shape we can go after Randy .

Who's on board ? ..... let's go clean it up !!!

i'm pretty sure after that last response by J.S. the only way to get any offspring thats 100% pure is to breed Justin to a Jacka$$.....think about it Justin, if a breeder did everything you just said you'd still find some reason to not buy a pup from him (her),and tell me "Oh wise one" how are we gonna "crack" down and better the breed when we all do'nt share the same opinion?and theres not a single blood line of coonhound out there that can win every hunt!!!!

__________________
"Ozarks Coonbustin X-Chance"
(GrNt TW x NtCh B&T)

417-439-1381

quote:

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Originally posted by jerry chapman
i'm pretty sure after that last response by J.S. the only way to get any offspring thats 100% pure is to breed Justin to a Jacka$$.....think about it Justin, if a breeder did everything you just said you'd still find some reason to not buy a pup from him (her),and tell me "Oh wise one" how are we gonna "crack" down and better the breed when we all do'nt share the same opinion?and theres not a single blood line of coonhound out there that can win every hunt!!!!

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Justin, you as well as anyone know that in the past, you and I have not seen eye to eye. I am in 100% agreement with your post at the top of this page. You said it all, and I agree.

__________________
Rip Acorn Creek Black Swamp Jester

In Honor of Jim Sizemore, " This ain't no benchshow!"

quote:

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Originally posted by T.Beyer
Justin, you as well as anyone know that in the past, you and I have not seen eye to eye. I am in 100% agreement with your post at the top of this page. You said it all, and I agree.

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__________________
"Ozarks Coonbustin X-Chance"
(GrNt TW x NtCh B&T)

417-439-1381

My question is, who the crap is Randy Sexton, and who give a rats behind what he says or does. I do NOT. Obviously Bloodlines decided they didn't either. As for the numbers, they can be spun. Just at how many thousands of Walkers that don't make it, or get beat at a hunt on any given night. The number would be staggering. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's not things wrong with the B & T breed, and I don't deny the Walkers success. I'm just saying, someone that posts crap like I've seen, claiming to be a B & T fan, and all they do is divide the camp and cause dissension, is someone I want nothing to do with. I'm sure I'm not alone...

As for "one and a half year old studs", that remark was absolutely the tops! Nobody (make sure you read that, because it is FACT), absolutely nobody, knows how a cross will work before it's done, or a stud for that matter. Dogs can be plenty proven enough in the woods by 18 months to justify breeding. How many 18 month old SS and Performance sires are there that are Walkers? And they are the saving grace according to some. Their breeding program is second to none according to some, but yet they see fit to do that. Just more antagonistic posts to bolster their ego. I guess we should wait until their 10, raise two litters of pups before they start shooting blanks or die, and make our decision then...

Randy, Justin, you two should hook up. I think you'd enjoy each others company...

A dog aint proven until they have at least two season of hard hunting under their belt ...


... there alot more HOT year and a half olds than there are four year old . Where do they all go ??


.. they blow up and start to get their own personality and habits , their real desire to keep battling tough coon in tough condition starts to show after they are two or three.

quote:

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Originally posted by jerry chapman
Elvis tell us just what is the "best" walker blood Randy is looking for? and why would he want the "best" walker blood to put into what black and tan? what good would he get out of the "best" walker and an "inbred" black and tan? please tell us

and while your at it do you really think your walkers are any more pure than the black and tans? thier coonhounds....period!!!

I'm not upset with Randy,i like him alot hes a nice guy.i just do'nt agree with him.....not trying to stop him

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Re: Randy Sexton's December Article

quote:

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Originally posted by SCBluetickGirl
Randy announced the completion of his December article dealing with statistics and his "revised" project the other day. I don't see the thread anymore, so I'm assuming that it got deleted. I think things got a little out of hand, and I probably contributed to that, so out of respect for Randy I'm reposting the link for those that didn't get a chance to read it and respond. It's an interesting read and worth your time!

http://www.worldclassbreeder.com/Articles.html

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__________________
Nt. Ch. Cedarstump HiDollar Jane (GrNt HiDollar Dancer X GrNt Wheat Creek Widdow Demon Dolly)
Cedarstump HiDollar Toby (GrNt HiDollar Dancer X Nt. Ch.Donaldson's Midnight Queen)


Mike Donaldson
donaldsonmb@bellsouth.net

OK,
I just read the entire article, and I have to say, Man Randy is the best Pot Stirrer, Ive ever Seen, I think im gonna get his address and send him a Cigar.

I hope he works up a deal with Timothy Ball, Could you imagine seeing those Flashy Black and White adds. With the Picture of a Black and Tan, that Goes Back to Old Hicory Nut Harry.
LOLOLOLOL

__________________
Home of
Log Woods Chester, Treeing Walker,

GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

What upsets me the most about all this is the amount of ink that I wasted printing out all of his articles to read.

I find this highly upsetting that someone would so something so stupid to the black and tan breed. I thought his original goal was to improve the black and tan breed by smarter breeding with BLACK AND TANS!

~shaking head~

In my Opinion , Randy is doomed to failure and has been from the start.
Now , I haven't been reading his articles , but this is what I've come up with over the last few years........
When he started his article in CB , he took on way too many pups. Nobody can hunt that many pups enough.
I did go read this article , and what I get from it is that he has a female that he's not really happy with , but he'd raise pups from anyways.
He's ticked alot of folks off that could have helped him , and that's gonna hurt him.
And , now , he wants to try a short-cut to success.

I could be wrong , but I believe there are " rules " to become a " World Class Breeder ".
And rule number 1 is , You Don't Change The Rules !

__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Well I can see why Bloodlines discontinued the series. I printed it out and it was 13 PAGES LONG!!! Ran my printer out of ink. I'd of fired him too.

kind of interesting reading, if my math is correct in 36-48 months he could be produceing 3 gen "pure bred" b & t's with 32 shots of walker in them, now of course he would have know idea what kind of coon dog they are or would be but i'd say if he doubled his time frame to 6 - 8 yrs he would have a real good idea of what they would be.

__________________

quote:

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Originally posted by Josh Flatten

OOOOOOOOYYEEEEEAAAA, Macho Man Randy Savage. I think of that dude every time I see a post from Jim Hill.

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Walker Dogs

The Fact of the matter, is the most crossed up hound, there is, is the Walker, followed, real close, by the English coon hound. Let's see Nite ch Johnson's Banjo, one of the main lines, of the Walker breed, he had english coon hound, wippet hound, which is a small gray hound. White River King, there were black&tans, in his litter, i think his mother was black&tan, another main thread of the walker breed, Shetler"s Sonny Boy, the sire of Finley River Chief, i think there was a grand mother, that was bluetick, and some farm shepard, that's were, that broad head, short muzzle, long hair came from, some black&tan too. The River Bend Flag dogs, had a grand mother, that was a bluetick, that's were, that cold nose came from. The most pure bred dogs, are the ones, that have to stick, to the breed standards, red bone, black&tan, plott coon hounds, the hounds of a solid color. The hounds, that are the most crossed up, fit the night hunts, hot nosed, race horse, to the tree.

__________________
J.B.

Re: Walker Dogs

quote:

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Originally posted by JOE H BROOKS
The Fact of the matter, is the most crossed up hound, there is, is the Walker, followed, real close, by the English coon hound. Let's see Nite ch Johnson's Banjo, one of the main lines, of the Walker breed, he had english coon hound, wippet hound, which is a small gray hound. White River King, there were black&tans, in his litter, i think his mother was black&tan, another main thread of the walker breed, Shetler"s Sonny Boy, the sire of Finley River Chief, i think there was a grand mother, that was bluetick, and some farm shepard, that's were, that broad head, short muzzle, long hair came from, some black&tan too. The River Bend Flag dogs, had a grand mother, that was a bluetick, that's were, that cold nose came from. The most pure bred dogs, are the ones, that have to stick, to the breed standards, red bone, black&tan, plott coon hounds, the hounds of a solid color. The hounds, that are the most crossed up, fit the night hunts, hot nosed, race horse, to the tree.

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__________________
Home of
Log Woods Chester, Treeing Walker,

GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

An observation and a comment!!

Observation: We looked and the precentage of pups registered and the number of pups registered that earn a degree. What information I would like to process along with that is the number of pups per littler each breed has and survive to be registered. Could it be the location of the red, blue and black dogs compared to the southern walkers that allow more walker pups to survive and therefore are registered. I know I have never had to deal with freezing temperatures trying to raise pups. Don't know just a thought.

Comment: I don't think there is nothing wrong with Randy's observation and I think it is one that a lot of knowledgeable people really could agree with. The problem is the method and madness to just start breeing walkers to black and tans. If your information makes you think Walkers are better get a walker.
If you have a true love in your heart for the Black dogs but got to have a walker influence then Hardrock opened that door. I would be getting me some females off of Hardrock as the foundation to my kennel and finding the best males in the country to breed them to. Want a little more walker influence then use your imagination on how to accomplish that while you stay within the rules of the registeration offices.

Walkers

I hunted walkers, for about 25 years, had some real good, ones, i had one out of Sacket JR. i liked, if you didn't take him, hunting. When you loaded, him in the dog box, the next time, he would, look at me nod, his head, up and down, he would mumble, at me, as if to say, see i told you, you should have taken me hunting. I don't have a walker, on the place now, i've got some red bones, and black&tans, i don't know, if you could give me, one. I was stateing the truth about their, orgins, i have some black dogs, that will, break, their necks, to put, their heads, in my hands, i will have to stop, what i'm doing, and pet them. I gave away, the last walker dog, i had, and he would tree, his own coon, he was different, from most walker dogs, he liked, to be petted too, he would bite a stranger. I've got an old 12 year old Nite ch Black&tan, that has treed coons every night, that i've hunted him this winter, but one night. He is the only dog, of any color, that i've seen, that would tree coons, on hard crusted, snow, frozen ground, down in the twenty's. Once, in a while, i'll get lucky, and i'll breed a world class hound, that's a hound, that i thought, was capeable, of winning it all. You can study pedigrees, hunt with both, animals, try to bred, for what, one or the other lacks, you still need some luck. The pups you raise, has to go to someone, who at least, doesn't ruin them, before, they get started, they have to be hunted, to bring out, their ability, to tree coons, they must be put in the hunts, to show, their stuff, it's a long ways, from puppy, to coon dog, most do not make it.

__________________
J.B.