UKC Forums - Poll on new hunt test/would you require it before registering dogs or entering events

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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Poll on new hunt test/would you require it before registering dogs or entering events (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=166284)

Posted by Christy on 09-08-2007 06:28 PM:

I CAN SEE THE GOOD AND THE BAD TO BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

ON ONE SIDE YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THE PLEASURE AND BEAR HUNTERS THAT BREED FOR THEMSELVES AND DONT WORRY ABOUT ANYONE ELSE AND THOSE THAT DONT COMPETITION HUNT THAT USE PEDIGREES AS A BREEDING TOOL.

YOU CANT PENALIZE THEM AND NOT ALLOW THEM TO REGISTER THEIR PUPS JUST BECAUSE THEY DONT COMPETE IN NITE HUNTS OR THE HUNT TESTS.

I GET WHAT YA'LL ARE GETTING AT. TRYING TO MAKE THE NTCH AND GRNTCH DOG BETTER. TO ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE DOUBT TO WHETHER THIS OR THAT TITLED DOG CAN ACUTALLY TREE A COON BY ITSELF.

HERE'S MY SOLUTION TO THE WHOLE PROBLEM:

IN THE RESPECT OF HURTING CLUB TURN OUTS, I DONT THINK UKC SHOULD RESTRICT NITE HUNT ENTRIES TO ONLY THOSE THAT HAVE PASSED A HUNT TEST.

BUT RATHER TAKE A DIFFERENT APPROACH. THIS WAY THE HUNT TESTER CAN HUNT AND GET THEIR TITLES, AND SO CAN THE NITE HUNTER.

I THINK UKC SHOULD MAKE IT TO WHERE THE DOG CAN ENTER AS MANY HUNTS AS IT WANTS, BUT HAS TO PASS AT LEAST 2 HUNT TESTS BEFORE IT CAN ACTUALLY EARN A NTCH TITLE.

SAY IN ADDITION TO A DOG COMPLETING THE 1ST PLACE WIN AND 100 POINTS, MAKE IT A REQUIREMENT THAT IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GET THEIR NTCH DEGREE, THEY HAVE TO PASS 2 HUNT TESTS, OR THE DOG WILL STAY A REGISTERED DOG.

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Posted by mudman on 09-08-2007 07:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Christy
I CAN SEE THE GOOD AND THE BAD TO BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

ON ONE SIDE YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT THE PLEASURE AND BEAR HUNTERS THAT BREED FOR THEMSELVES AND DONT WORRY ABOUT ANYONE ELSE AND THOSE THAT DONT COMPETITION HUNT THAT USE PEDIGREES AS A BREEDING TOOL.

YOU CANT PENALIZE THEM AND NOT ALLOW THEM TO REGISTER THEIR PUPS JUST BECAUSE THEY DONT COMPETE IN NITE HUNTS OR THE HUNT TEST.

i agree i dont comp hunt so if this rule passes what does it mean please explain

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Posted by jackbob42 on 09-08-2007 07:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by roughcreek
i hear you people complaining about dud studs !! why dont you just go & hunt with a dog you want to breed to...........

Simple........
If there is a test that will tell me the dog can't tree a coon by itself , male or female , it just saved me gas money and wasted time.
Simple economics man ! LOL

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Posted by ky_walker_man_x on 09-09-2007 12:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
I think if done right it COULD improve all the breeds and COULD improve the chances of each pup making something that had the natural ability to tree a coon though.

I don't know that it would kill UKC.

I bet there are plenty of show people that won't like it, but they can't use the excuse that they "just don't like competition hunting". If it's cheap enough they can't use expense. They can't say "I don't want him to get cut up by the mean dogs he needs to look good to show".

The showers excuses would be gone and then we would just see if little miss priss with the manicure really could tree a coon or if it was all show and no go.

Same for the NtCh dogs that won't get out of your light by themselves. You wouldn't have people quitting the hunt when they got to hunt by themselves, or trying to convince the judge to let the last dog that withdrew stay in the cast or be turned loose but not scored.

People like me with limited time couldn't use that either cause it can be done any time you get a day off.

Ain't treein a coon what a dog with Coonhound in it's name is supposed to be able to do?

It looks like there are plenty show people on here voteing already.

Of course I would NEVER stir the pot

LOL

rip
there will be more cheaten going on in the hunt tests then the night hunts the budy system will take over this fast .
how hard will it be to cheat when its just them and there budy instead of them and hole cast not hard at all alot of dogs that wont hunt and couldent even tree a cage coon will pass the hunt test . if you wont to no if a stud is a real coon dog go hunting with it or some of its pups titles dont always mean the dog ernd it .some casts are won the right way and some arent

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Posted by highbawl on 09-09-2007 03:34 AM:

Nope

If you have a question about a dog hunt with it. Too much politics involved (In my opinion) could play a factor. Sure some people have made a great argument for this test! If you want to participate in it great. But don't penalize someone else who doesn't want to take part in it. If anyone has a question about wether a coonddog is a coondog simply go hunt with it!! If I was going to push a dog and try to get as much $$ per breeding or pups it could push the value up some. But it will still go back to how the dog performed in the hunts and the breeding the dog is off of.JMO.

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Posted by Christy on 09-09-2007 05:30 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mudman
i agree i dont comp hunt so if this rule passes what does it mean please explain

ON THE ORIGINAL POST IT SAID:

Do you think a dog should pass the new hunt test before being allowed to enter ANY UKC event (hunt, show, field trial, water race etc) and before having any pups registered out of the dog?

THAT IS WHAT I WAS ANSWERING TO.

Posted by jculler8 on 09-09-2007 07:28 PM:

this is a good idea, especially to improve the breed! the only thing that i would change is that dogs should have to pass this test before entering a hunt only... many people enter young dogs in field trials, bench shows, etc to get them familiar with the scene at clubs... however many of these dogs have not hunted by themselves yet... on the other hand... i think this is a must requirement for the hunts. #1 it eliminates the "me too" dogs and #2 it keeps the junk runners out of the hunts as well. heck isn't a nite hunt for treeing coon? not deer, fox, etc... too many times i have been involved in a cast where there's a dog that is interested in running off game and there's an hour of the hunt time used in chasing mr. whitetail around...

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Posted by Len Machen on 09-10-2007 03:33 AM:

Htx

I agree with Christy, let anybody come to the hunts and hunt but before your dog is awarded the NtCh degree it must be Htx under TWO DIFFERENT MOH and TWO DIFFERENT WITNESSES each time to complete the two hunt test( 3 different witnesses for each test). This will help restore a great deal of credibility to the title of NtCh and GrNtCh. When certifying for GrNtCh a different set of MOH and witnesses must be used. This will make the crooked buddy system much harder to title a dog. This will mean a lot to the hunter that would like new blood in his hounds but can not hunt with that hound or pups related to geography or economics. This can only improve all coonhound breeds. My female is 8 y/o and never been in a UKC hunt but can flat tree a coon and she also reproduces,I am training one out of her only litter now with litter mates doing great with the other owners. I would put her in a few hunt test to prove her. i only wish that i had the time to comp. hunt when she was young, but her daughter will be there next year now that my job allows it.

Posted by Gibbo on 09-10-2007 03:42 PM:

I think this should only be required if you want to register pups. This would stop the breeding of dogs that have absolutely no hunting ability. I don't think this needs to be required to enter a nite hunt. If people want to pay the entry fee to hunt a dog that can't tree a coon then let them. I just don't think should be allowed to breed these dogs.

This is an opportunity to improve all breeds of coonhounds.

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Posted by on 09-10-2007 05:45 PM:

If HSUS backed legislation requireing the passing of a hunt test before you could breed, would you be singing the same song?

Posted by Russell Boyette on 09-10-2007 05:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
If HSUS backed legislation requireing the passing of a hunt test before you could breed, would you be singing the same song?

Thats exactly what i was thinking. As far as bettering the breed. Is a hunt test going to tell you if the dog will reproduce or not?

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Posted by Gibbo on 09-10-2007 07:02 PM:

As for hsus I am pretty sure they are not going to sponsor a program that promotes hunting.

And no a hunt test will not tell you if a dog can reproduce but will promote the breeding of dogs that carry at least a few of the traits needed to perform the task they were meant to do.

Too many people breed dogs in our sport (especially females) hoping the pups will turn out when the parents don't know what a coon is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by L. Harper on 09-10-2007 07:05 PM:

I WONDER HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER STOPPED TO THINK HOW MANY GREAT DOGS WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN IF BROOD BITCHES WERE NOT ALLOWED YEARS AGO. HOUSE'S LIPPER FOR ONE. ALONG WITH MANY JET AND HAMMER BLUETICKS, AND IM SURE MANY B&T'S, REDBONES.

Posted by Gibbo on 09-10-2007 09:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by L. Harper
I WONDER HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER STOPPED TO THINK HOW MANY GREAT DOGS WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN IF BROOD BITCHES WERE NOT ALLOWED YEARS AGO. HOUSE'S LIPPER FOR ONE. ALONG WITH MANY JET AND HAMMER BLUETICKS, AND IM SURE MANY B&T'S, REDBONES.

Your right accidents happen but could you imagine how many great ones would have been born if people concentrated on breeding only the best to the best instead of just breeding to a female because she was in heat at the time.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 09-11-2007 01:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by L. Harper
I WONDER HAVE ANY OF YOU EVER STOPPED TO THINK HOW MANY GREAT DOGS WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN BORN IF BROOD BITCHES WERE NOT ALLOWED YEARS AGO. HOUSE'S LIPPER FOR ONE. ALONG WITH MANY JET AND HAMMER BLUETICKS, AND IM SURE MANY B&T'S, REDBONES.

Was Lipper out of a "brood bitch " ?
And , please tell us , which Hammer and Jet dogs came from " brood bitches ".

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Posted by honalieh on 09-11-2007 04:39 AM:

Stylish Queen

Didn't John Wicke cull the mother of Stylish Queen?

How different would the Walker breed be if Queen's mother had never been bred, and Queen never were born?

What seems to us to be common sense (best to best) doesn't always yield the expected results when we start applying it to a subject (genetics) where we have very little scientific knowledge (measurable and determinable).

We can breed dogs based on their traits, characteristics, abilities, titles, pedigree, etc. We can control that! We have no control over how the chromosomes, and the millions of genes contained in these chromosomes interact/combine. It's still a matter of breed for the best (all we can do, and based on all the knowlege available to us), and hope for the best!! Anybody professing to know more than this is fooling himself, and/or trying to fool you (exempting repeat crosses).

Posted by Gary Hazel on 09-11-2007 08:25 PM:

Poll on new hunt /

Can anyone tell me about the new hunts and were a person can find out about the rules. When will these hunts start ?

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