UKC Forums - Indian Artifacts(any Arrowhead Hunters Out There?)

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Posted by Dan Morris on 07-27-2007 04:27 AM:

well most of the stuff i have is prehistoric, mostly Hopewell and Adena culture... mound builders,with some showing Mississippian influance to a few heads and drills. also a clovis pont or two. the area i live in has many earth works. these were all found top ground from agriculture. also much of the things that are found are archcaic classed..........useually rather rough and pre date the mound builders. my brother has some rare finds such as banner stones and a part of a granite pipe. an ole boy.. who is dead now showed him alot about these thinsgs and was a big wheel in the ohio historical society,

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Posted by highyellerdog on 07-27-2007 01:29 PM:

Re: THE GLASS IS FLAKED

quote:
Originally posted by jodaviess1
THERE ARE NUMEROUS SITES THAT WE HAVE FOUND WORKED GLASS. THIS WAS NOT DONE ACCIDENTLY.

Look I have analyzed artifacts for the last 20 years for a living. Everyday that I come to work this is what I do.

Many ways glass can become retouched. But go ahead believe what you want, you know more about it than I do.

Natives didnt make glass and brown bottle glass was not around when natives knew how to knap.

So give me you best hypothesis on how it can be that a material was worked by Indians when that material was not around until AFTER they had all been removed to the west and didnt know how to make arrowheads from stone anyway? Please, I am ALL ears.

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Posted by coon dawg on 07-27-2007 02:42 PM:

Re: Indian Artifacts(any Arrowhead Hunters Out There?)

quote:
Originally posted by jodaviess1

A FEW FINDS FROM N.W.ILLINOIS

...can you give me some info on the small head that is in the upper right corner of your picture???............most of the ones I've found in SW Georgia resemble that one...........

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Posted by L P Smith on 07-27-2007 04:36 PM:

Perry: I have found a few arrowheads and tools in western NY .My uncle hunted for them along the Genesee river and I would tag along.That was over 45 years ago.Last spring,My grandson and I found the place,he called Fort Hill.It was a hill near the river and the native people had built up the dirt around the top as a fort.I had been tring to find it for a few years to show him,it was a great find.

Posted by jodaviess1 on 07-27-2007 06:32 PM:

YELLERDOG

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT MORE MODERN INDIANS OR EVEN WHITES LEARNED TO NAP AND THATS HOW IT GOT THERE.
THIS PIECE OF GLASS IS NAPPED OFF ALONG THE EDGE AND HAS A KNIFE EDGE APPEARANCE. I DIDN'T MEAN TO INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENTS. AS I SAID BEFORE WE HAVE FOUND MORE THAN ONE PIECE OF MORE MODERN NAPPED GLASS ON SOME OF THESE SITES. THE INDIANS PICKED AWESOME PLACES TO SET UP CAMP AND THESE SAME SITES WERE USED FOR 100'S OF YEARS BECAUSE OF LOCATION SO WAY WOULDN'T MORE MODERN MAN USE THE SAME SITES AND MAYBE PICK UP ON THE NAPPING OF FLINT AND GLASS. DIDN'T BY ANY MEANS SAY I KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE, BUT I KNOW ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THIS GLASS HAS BEEN WORKED. BY WHO?? NOW THATS A MISTERY. THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. PERRY

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Posted by jodaviess1 on 07-27-2007 06:37 PM:

COONDAWG

THAT POINT WAS FOUND IN THE WATER ALONG THE BACKWATERS OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER BY A KNOWN SITE.
THERE HAS BEEN SOME AWESOME STUFF COME FROM THERE. THE FEDS HAVE SHUT THE AREA DOWN TO THE PUBLIC SINCE. ONCE AGAIN THANKS TO ALL FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD. PERRY

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Posted by highyellerdog on 07-27-2007 08:15 PM:

Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by jodaviess1
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT MORE MODERN INDIANS OR EVEN WHITES LEARNED TO NAP AND THATS HOW IT GOT THERE.
THIS PIECE OF GLASS IS NAPPED OFF ALONG THE EDGE AND HAS A KNIFE EDGE APPEARANCE. I DIDN'T MEAN TO INSULT YOUR INTELLIGENTS. AS I SAID BEFORE WE HAVE FOUND MORE THAN ONE PIECE OF MORE MODERN NAPPED GLASS ON SOME OF THESE SITES. THE INDIANS PICKED AWESOME PLACES TO SET UP CAMP AND THESE SAME SITES WERE USED FOR 100'S OF YEARS BECAUSE OF LOCATION SO WAY WOULDN'T MORE MODERN MAN USE THE SAME SITES AND MAYBE PICK UP ON THE NAPPING OF FLINT AND GLASS. DIDN'T BY ANY MEANS SAY I KNOW MORE THAN ANYONE, BUT I KNOW ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THIS GLASS HAS BEEN WORKED. BY WHO?? NOW THATS A MISTERY. THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. PERRY

You are not insulting me, I know how the retouch happened.
Glass is very nasty to flake well. It is very brittle and tends to break by flexion when attepmting to send flakes across the surface.

I bet you also find whiteware and other kitchen refuse on those sites as well. It means that there was some sort of Euroamerican occupation and when people plow, thinngs get churned up and broken. Look at those chert tools you have. If you look close I bet you will see metal scratch marks on them. Those are plow marks.

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Posted by Robert Welch on 07-28-2007 08:32 AM:

Used to recorded Darke Co Ohio Sites for the state!

We(Dad, My brother and I)! have so many artifacts I couldn't even get you to believe what is here. Most is hidden In places we aren't even sure where it is right now. Packed alot away to move in the next year! We located and recorded Prehistoric sites in Darke County,Oh for 20 yrs. Axes, Hammerstones ,points(whole and parts of) by the thousands! Several nice spear points and Knives- Blades of all kinds! slate Hoes and a bunch of slate items in finished and unfinished condition! Dad has a nice oval pendant and I found a nice oblong one with 32 tally marks. Brothers prize was a Bird stone! I do know if I wanted to sell my collection I could retire! No It isn't for sale!It will probably all go to a museum some day. Except for a couple boxes that will be turned over to some native americans for reburial.We removed about 5 burials that we being destroyed by a bulldozer! Landowner let us remove them as long as we didn't tell! I'm not even sure where they are now. Just know they were pre historic human remains. they are in a couple boxes some where here!Once dad is gone I'll probably insist they be delt with, with respect! Found no artifacts with them just some ocre they used as face/body paint buried with them! Dad has pics some where of the excavation process! They are probably with the remains!Everything else here was surface found. Had some good memories of walking bean and corn fields looking for treasures! With no till farming about impossible to surface hunt any more. I pretty much have stopped looking!

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Posted by AZbeagler on 07-28-2007 09:14 AM:

Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by highyellerdog
You are not insulting me, I know how the retouch happened.
Glass is very nasty to flake well. It is very brittle and tends to break by flexion when attepmting to send flakes across the surface.

I bet you also find whiteware and other kitchen refuse on those sites as well. It means that there was some sort of Euroamerican occupation and when people plow, thinngs get churned up and broken. Look at those chert tools you have. If you look close I bet you will see metal scratch marks on them. Those are plow marks.

yellerdog,

couldnt that "worked glass" be obsidian??

Posted by highyellerdog on 07-28-2007 04:53 PM:

Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by AZbeagler
yellerdog,

couldnt that "worked glass" be obsidian??

Not brown and not here. Obsidian in the Midwest is dates to the Middle Woodland cultural period (Hopewell, moundbuilders) and is 99% from the Yellowstone area. It is black not brown. That is a portion of a beer or clorox bottle thats been beat around.

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Posted by Jay Chadwick on 07-28-2007 11:20 PM:

here's one of mine V

dug this out of the ground when I was a teenager

check out the lock. it is of dutch origin called a "snaphaunce". it pre-dates the flintlock

there are decorative wraps of copper up the barrel and a silver end wrap with primitive engravings

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Posted by jodaviess1 on 07-29-2007 04:29 AM:

THATS PRETTY COOL

NICE FIND JAY. NEAT PICS TO. V.

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Posted by vegas on 07-29-2007 04:43 AM:

i would

not post my artifasts on here it will let the thefs know where to still them,,,a man posted his on here not long ago and his house got robed of just them,

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Posted by Jay Chadwick on 07-29-2007 05:09 AM:

it would take a big sheet to robe my place

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Posted by teton on 07-29-2007 04:35 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by highyellerdog
Not brown and not here. Obsidian in the Midwest is dates to the Middle Woodland cultural period (Hopewell, moundbuilders) and is 99% from the Yellowstone area. It is black not brown. That is a portion of a beer or clorox bottle thats been beat around.

Your percentage is off a bit there. Obsidian lithic sources are found through 4 to 5 areas in western states, also Mexico. Besides Jellystone, there are sources in No. CA, OR, UT, Utah having the largest source of mahogany or brown obsidian. The indians liked to wander and trade, so who knows.... One other mention of glass tools...glass points have been found along the trancontinental railroad, which means that the indians were still knapping in the 1860s. Go figure!

Posted by jodaviess1 on 07-31-2007 06:14 PM:

^^^

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Posted by highyellerdog on 07-31-2007 10:05 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by teton
Your percentage is off a bit there. Obsidian lithic sources are found through 4 to 5 areas in western states, also Mexico. Besides Jellystone, there are sources in No. CA, OR, UT, Utah having the largest source of mahogany or brown obsidian. The indians liked to wander and trade, so who knows.... One other mention of glass tools...glass points have been found along the trancontinental railroad, which means that the indians were still knapping in the 1860s. Go figure!

Nope my percentage is not off and I am specifically talking about the eastern US not out west. Yes Ishi made points of glass and I am sure some of those folks in the remote areas made them into historic times. BUT that is not the Eastern US.

The Obsidian that is recovered from archaeological contexts in Ohio and the Midwest comes from Yellowstone. I didnt say that Obsidian only occured in Yellowstone. It has been sourced through many different means including thin-sections and trace mineral analysis from sites in Ohio back to the Yellowstone quarries. Big difference there bub. You forgot Idaho, lots of lava fields there as well.

I aint blowin smoke up your tail pipe. I wouldnt comment if I didnt know what I was talking about.

As I said before believe what you want, I'll still go to work tomorrow, analyze artifacts, and get paid for doing it. But what do I know. Guess my peer reviewed articles arent worth the paper their printed on.

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Posted by David Morgan on 07-31-2007 10:14 PM:

Where is the most comprehensive information on the different periods that you guys that are so well informed would send a novice?

Posted by highyellerdog on 08-01-2007 01:52 AM:

Depends

quote:
Originally posted by David Morgan
Where is the most comprehensive information on the different periods that you guys that are so well informed would send a novice?

Depends on where you live. Although there are many similarities in cultures in the prehistory of North America, there can be specific differences based on environment and other factors.

There are numerous books used in North American Archaeology classes but mant states have their own publications on cultural histories.

I live in Kentucky, until last year our State Hsitoric Preservation Officer was named David Morgan, he retired.

So where do you live?

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Posted by David Morgan on 08-02-2007 03:39 AM:

I live in deep East Texas. I am 1/8 Indian due to my greatgrandmother being a mixed fullblood from a reservation in Oklahoma. We don't know much more than that due to the fact she was illigitamate. I have wondered if there are ways to determine which tribes or groups I descend from based on DNA.

Posted by jodaviess1 on 08-05-2007 11:29 PM:

^^^

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Posted by teton on 08-12-2007 09:10 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by highyellerdog
Nope my percentage is not off and I am specifically talking about the eastern US not out west. Yes Ishi made points of glass and I am sure some of those folks in the remote areas made them into historic times. BUT that is not the Eastern US.

The Obsidian that is recovered from archaeological contexts in Ohio and the Midwest comes from Yellowstone. I didnt say that Obsidian only occured in Yellowstone. It has been sourced through many different means including thin-sections and trace mineral analysis from sites in Ohio back to the Yellowstone quarries. Big difference there bub. You forgot Idaho, lots of lava fields there as well.

I aint blowin smoke up your tail pipe. I wouldnt comment if I didnt know what I was talking about.

As I said before believe what you want, I'll still go to work tomorrow, analyze artifacts, and get paid for doing it. But what do I know. Guess my peer reviewed articles arent worth the paper their printed on.

Well, alrighty then...there is no way that you can learn anything more...so you can go on being snotty and arrogant.

Posted by highyellerdog on 08-13-2007 01:26 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by teton
Well, alrighty then...there is no way that you can learn anything more...so you can go on being snotty and arrogant.

Thanks for Allowing me to do so, I will continue on.

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Posted by teton on 08-26-2007 04:04 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by highyellerdog
Guess my peer reviewed articles arent worth the paper their printed on.

What is your name and were the "peer reviewed" articles published?

Posted by highyellerdog on 08-26-2007 09:58 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: YELLERDOG

quote:
Originally posted by teton
What is your name and were the "peer reviewed" articles published?

I dont have to recite my vitae to you now or ever. Best you go back and sit on the porch.

My buddy asked me to chime in on this post. I told him how it would end up. Always a few "experts" on this topic.

Argue with yourself, I dont have the time.

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