UKC Forums - i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold

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-- i think the quality of dogs would improve 10 fold (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=132177)

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-31-2007 04:49 AM:

Re: Best Idea Yet

quote:
Originally posted by OldFashRed
UKC can create a better hound by offering each and every dog that gains either a GRCH title or NTCH and GRNTCH title the opportunity to "CERTIFY" the dog by having the owner pay a licensed Judge (say 35$) to view the dog strike, track and hold tree for 5 minutes with the meat by itself...........

Reckon how many would pay that $35 + a 150% tip just to make sure the judge gets a better look at the coon?

Any scenario any person can come up with, a few people will find a way around it. In a day when 11 month old pups sell for the price of a new pickup, you'll find your share of people that will take advantage. Just look at every sport there has ever been and you will find people who take advantage of rules and situations.

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Posted by WILD DOG on 01-31-2007 04:52 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by j.ooten
lol...you goin' out tonight...lol

the quality of dogs would go up if people had to live off the money raised from selling the fur their hounds treed throughout the season........it would help if people would take pleasure hunting as serious as comp. hunting...IMO

you got that backwards..the quality of dogs would go up if people would take comp hunting as serious as they take pleasue hunting..what do i mean by that? well how many times pleasure hunting have you said there it is i got 1 eye but he closed it and wont look now. or how many times have you said while pleasure hunting a coon could have got in that hole if he really wanted to, or them trees are touching he couldve got into that tree..never have you said these things while pleasure hunting but ill bet youve said them a million times while comp hunting..pleasure hunting people or most poeple correct their dogs when wrong. but comp hunting people or most people make excuses

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Posted by J. Hill on 01-31-2007 04:55 AM:

Re: Re: Mrbluedog

quote:
Originally posted by HuntWalkers
It seems to me like the people who claim that a bench show hound should have to tree a coon first are the people who bring these muddy uncontrollable hounds with duck feet to bench shows and are POed when people who prepared their hounds for the show win. Perhaps if people quit concerning themselves so darn much with what other people are doing with their hounds, the breed would be better off. If you don't like a show hound, then don't buy one. Buy a dog that comes from a bloodline you know works for you and that YOU have personally researched. Don't breed your stud to a gyp with minimal hunting ability just for the cash. Cull the dogs that you don't like and be satisfied with the ones you do and leave everyone else alone. That would improve the hunting line a great deal, don't you think?

couldnt say it better, right on the numbers

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Posted by honalieh on 01-31-2007 05:52 AM:

Quality of Dogs?

Overall, I think the POTENTIAL of dogs is probably as good now as it's ever been.

Quality is the result of potential and the development of that potential (hunting, training, handling, correction). The OVERALL quality of training has probably slipped significantly over the years.

If you are talking about the overall quality of Nite Ch.'s and Gr. Nite Ch.'s, you've got to consider the # and the size of the hunts today, as well as the objectives of the hunters. A lot more hunts, and a lot smaller entries = a lot more Nite Ch.'s and Gr. Nite Ch.'s. So, obviously, you'll see a lot more Nite and Grand Nite Ch.'s that aren't top dogs.

If championship points were based on entries (win a 40 dog hunt-get 40 points, win a 4 dog hunt, get 4 points-still have to get 100 points), you'd see a steady increase in the quality of titled dogs. But, with participation as low as it is already, this could kill the local clubs.

It still comes down to : the best and most knowledgable hunters/trainers will have the best dogs. The best, and most conscientious breeders, will hunt with what they are breeding to!

It's the people that try to take shortcuts (breeding/buying based on titles or title %'s) that have the biggest problems and complaints.

If you looked at a pup as an investment into your next 10-15 years of hunting, you'd be more particular in what you bred to or bought a pup from (regardless of titles/PAD's/promotion). You can talk and brag about those things, but, see how far that carries you when you're hunting that dog on a cold and frosty night (or a hot dry night).

Posted by scott shaw on 01-31-2007 02:11 PM:

I couldn't even imagine putting a dog in a hunt that couldn't
tree it's own coon!! My young dogs are hunted more by themselves than with other dogs and must be able to do
it on their own before ever getting to a hunt. I just can't
see a dog winning much around here if they can't tree a
coon by themselves.

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Posted by utoh on 01-31-2007 03:05 PM:

the quality of coonhounds would improve if most left the breeding to people who know what they are doing and all the knuckle heads would quit it and realize just because you have a bitch in heat doesnt mean you need to have her bred.

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Posted by justpiddlin76 on 01-31-2007 03:13 PM:

Re: Re: Mrbluedog

quote:
Originally posted by HuntWalkers
It seems to me like the people who claim that a bench show hound should have to tree a coon first are the people who bring these muddy uncontrollable hounds with duck feet to bench shows and are POed when people who prepared their hounds for the show win. Perhaps if people quit concerning themselves so darn much with what other people are doing with their hounds, the breed would be better off. If you don't like a show hound, then don't buy one. Buy a dog that comes from a bloodline you know works for you and that YOU have personally researched. Don't breed your stud to a gyp with minimal hunting ability just for the cash. Cull the dogs that you don't like and be satisfied with the ones you do and leave everyone else alone. That would improve the hunting line a great deal, don't you think?

That's funny cause I have heard folks say this before. I agree with ya. It don't matter to me what the rules in ya'lls hunts are or who is just putting their dog on a bench instead of hunting it. The only time my dogs get a bath during the year is when they cross a creek or a river. Works for us just fine. Never was really concerned with what others were doing. I hunt with fellas that don't have dogs that suit me, but I ain't worried to much bout them at all. I think you may be on to something.

Posted by jay brademeyer on 01-31-2007 04:50 PM:

evertbody that is complaning about todays dogs , and how the hunt rules are, you all just need to raise that perfect dog that trees lotst of trees and has a coon in every one. then you will win every hunt you are in , sound s ez don't it? sounds like some sore loosers to me

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Posted by josh on 01-31-2007 05:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jay brademeyer
evertbody that is complaning about todays dogs , and how the hunt rules are, you all just need to raise that perfect dog that trees lotst of trees and has a coon in every one. then you will win every hunt you are in , sound s ez don't it? sounds like some sore loosers to me

lol....Yea, it does sound easy.

I bet it would be interesting to hunt with the best dog of everyone that is pointing their fingers at the "other guys" that are doing it all wrong.......

Posted by Skeeterhawk on 02-01-2007 05:07 PM:

I`m with OldFashRed.
Let them earn their points and then tree a coon by themselves, before getting the title.
The number of titled dogs would go down I`m sure.

Posted by ItsOlMander on 02-01-2007 06:20 PM:

i think the quality of dogs would improve if everyone would breed better dogs- nitch grnite or no titles. stop focusing on the titles too. titles dont mean much. brood dogs are worthless- breed coondogs to coondogs to get coondogs. the nite hunt rules do have alot to do with what kinds of dogs are being bred- look at sucessful nite hunt dogs babbling to get quicker strikes, extremely quick but not accurate, slick treeing and get circle points, ect.

hows it goin rance

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 02-01-2007 06:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ItsOlMander
i think the quality of dogs would improve if everyone would breed better dogs- nitch grnite or no titles. stop focusing on the titles too. titles dont mean much. brood dogs are worthless- breed coondogs to coondogs to get coondogs. the nite hunt rules do have alot to do with what kinds of dogs are being bred- look at sucessful nite hunt dogs babbling to get quicker strikes, extremely quick but not accurate, slick treeing and get circle points, ect.

hows it goin rance

I could almost agree with everything that you wrote. But there have been alot of good dogs that have come from brood females. I wouldnt want to breed a female i couldnt tree a coon with but some people do, and it seems to work for them.

Posted by elvis on 02-01-2007 06:42 PM:

the quality of a hound increases 10 fold as soon as they die and they just keep getting better.
if the dogs of yesterday were as good as many would lead you to believe,just imagine how good todays dogs are gonna be in twenty years.

Posted by wayne f on 02-02-2007 02:09 AM:

old fash red

best idea i have heard in a long time but the hounds shoulb be viewed by ewo judges at the same time to avoib ant hanky panky

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Posted by Darren barkman on 02-02-2007 03:58 AM:

Re: Re: how about this

quote:
Originally posted by rance56
you would be surpised how many folks by a pup cause its a nice stud the dam is a nt ch, in lots of casses the gyp is junk, take away that nt ch title and the demand goes away and folks start being more demanding.

THATS YOUR OWN FAULT IF YOU GET ONE OF THEM HOT NOSED OR SLICK TREEING DOGS ETC.ETC. WHEN I BUY OR GET A PUP I DON'T LOOK TO SEE NITE CHAMP OR GRAND NITE. I TRY TO HUNT WITH THE DAM AND SIRE AND SOME OFFSPRING. SEE WHAT THEY ARE REPORDUCING LIKE. DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND YOU WILL HAVE LESS HEADACHES. DON'T BLAME SOMEBODY ELSE FOR THE MISTAKES YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED.

Posted by bob country jr on 02-02-2007 04:20 AM:

Re: more

quote:
Originally posted by justpiddlin76
What about grand night? I know of several Grand Nights in my area that I would kill deader than a hammer if I had the chance. They literally cannot tree a coon this time of year, at all.

i owned one that made his way to some of the all grand litters and is in about 3 of the dogs advertised this month. dont get me wrong he could get the job done just wouldnt hunt alone. would hunt alick alone.

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Posted by yadkinrvrhutch on 02-02-2007 04:58 AM:

COONDOGS AND NOT YOU DESIDE IF IT SUITS YOU THATS ALL THAT MATTERS YOU GOT TO FEED IT

WHAT ABOUT THE DOGS THAT ARE NEVER COMP HUNTED I GUESS THEY AINT COONDOGS IN COMP HUNTERS EYES SO I GUESS I CANT BREED MY DOGS CAUSE THEY AINT ALL TITLED MAN MY DOGS MUST NOT BE NO GOOD NOR WILL THE PUPS BE OUT OF THEM OLE SORRY PR DOGS? I GET TIRED OF HEARING ALL GRAND THAT DONT MEAN SQUATT GOOD LINE BREEDING THE RITE GINETICS DOES IF THEY ARE HUNTED. YOU OR ME OR NOBODY ELSE WILL EVER CHANGE COMP HUNTS THERE IS ALLWAYS GONNA BE MOUTHY 1RST STRIKE DOGS AND COVER TREE DOGS AS LONG AS THEY ARE HUNTS IT WILL NEVER CHANGE TILL THEY STOP BREEDING FOR TESE KIND OF DOGS.IVE SEEN A LOT BETTER DOGS OUT HERE PLEASURE HUNTING THESE OLE COUNTRY COONDOGS THAN IN THE HUNTS BIG OR SMALL BUT NOW DAYS THEY SAY THEY ARE 2 KINDS OF DOGS PLEASURE AND COMP DOGS A COONDOG IS A COONDOG NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE OR WHOS GOT THEM AND THEY ARE VERY VERY FEW OF THEM AROUND AND WILL ALWAYS BE VERY FEW ABSOLOUTE COONDOGS PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN THAT JUST CAUSE THEY TREE LOTS OF COONS STILL DONT MEAN THEY ARE TRUE BLUE COONDOGS TO ME TO ME A COONDOG RUNS AND OR TREES ONLY COONS AND DO IT WITH STYLE ALL THE WAY AND DOIT WITH THE DESIRE TO PLEASE AND WANT TO BEAT OTHER DOGS AND EVEN THE BEST DONT ALWAYS WIN IF THERE WERE A PERFECT DOG THEY WOUDNT BE BUT ONE BREED AND THAT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE NO OFFENCE TO ANY ONE OR ANY BREED BUT EVERY BODY LIKES SOMETHING DIFFERANT WHETHER ITS TITLED OR NOT

Posted by Joey Donelson on 02-02-2007 05:02 AM:

It takes honest people first before you can have honest titles. You can't change the rules enough to ever create it.

Posted by Terry Sudduth on 02-02-2007 05:22 AM:

I think a hound should have to tree a coon by its self before a title is put in front of its name.

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 02-02-2007 02:08 PM:

Re: Re: more

quote:
Originally posted by bob country
i owned one that made his way to some of the all grand litters and is in about 3 of the dogs advertised this month. dont get me wrong he could get the job done just wouldnt hunt alone. would hunt alick alone.

What dog was that? PM me he you dont mind.

Posted by jwebb on 02-02-2007 03:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mrbluedog
I would like to see a dog have to go tree a coon by him or her self to get the titles after they have earned enough points and not in there own woods . (jmo)

very well said troy...... i agree 100%... there are several round here that is titiled that wont hunt off there land and off feeder buckets ... they just look awful hunting in unfamilar territory.....

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Posted by CATDADDY434 on 02-02-2007 03:49 PM:

I THINK PEOPLE GET TOO TIED UP IN DEGREES SOMETIMES. I HAVE A MALE RIGHT NOW THAT LOOKS AS GOOD AS ANY GR NITE WHEN WE ARE PLEASURE HUNTING, BUT PUT HIM IN COMPETITION HE JUST DOES NOT HUNT THE SAME. SOME OF THE BEST DOGS WILL NEVER SEE A COMP HUNT. I AGREE WITH THAT PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE TO WIN WITH PLUS POINTS. WINNING WITH MINUS & CIRCLE POINTS IS STUPID. FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN MOST CIRCLE TREES SHOULD BE MINUSED BECAUSE THEY ARE NORMALLY SLICK BUT IT IS EASY TO TALK EVERYBODY IN A CAST TO TAKE CIRCLE INSTEAD OF MINUS. THEY SHOULD DO AWAY WITH CIRCLE. THE BABBLING RULE SHOULD ACTUALLY BE ENFORCED ALSO. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT EVERYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE IN NC I HAVE SEEN MANY BABBLING DOGS IN HUNTS LATELY & NOT HEARD THE FIRST JUDGE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT. MAKE THOSE CHANGES & IT WOULD HELP THE HUNTS. AS FAR AS BETTER DOGS THAT WILL TAKE BETTER BREEDERS & TRAINERS.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 02-02-2007 05:12 PM:

quality

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
The quality of dogs would get better if everyone would stop making excuses for their dogs. And get them in the woods and off the c
omputer.

you have it HOBO...the system works well...if you breed inferior..what do you have? hunt the dogs and decide from there. people control quality, not titles.

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Posted by jwebb on 02-02-2007 07:45 PM:

need a rule to scratch the handlers for babbling .....

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Posted by J.Grubbs on 02-02-2007 08:29 PM:

Mrbluedog, EXCELLENT idea. A dog should have to "QUALLIFY" itself by proving that it can hunt,strike and tree a coon ALONE before even be allowed to enter competition towards a degree.

Yeah, I KNOW. Entries would "fall off", BUT this concept might keep a lot of "wannabe's" out of "the loop" and make titles man something.

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