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-- Showing a Spayed/Neutered dog (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=130819)

question on the spay/neuture subject

I have never truly understood why you can't show a dog or animal for that matter if it has been fixed. show or hunt that is...you are still promoting the breed, you would be promoting that blood line, just not breeding it. In the horse world you can show a "neutured" horse and it is excepted...but in the dog and cat world it is not. If you have a great dog that hunts well and shows well, yet you don't want to breed it or have the chance of it breeding with others, what would be so wrong with it being fixed? what are the thoughts behind not allowing this? anyone know...

just curiousity. Roger and I were just talking about this the other day with some other people.

Very interested in your insight on this subject.

Jennifer

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English, the other coon dog.

RJEnglishKennel
Roger and Jennifer Davidson
573/819-5677
573/819-2252
rjenglishkennel@yahoo.com
http://www.rjenglishkennel.com/

Getting off the topic of a sterile dog...., seems a lot of people don't know the difference between a tight foot and cat footed. Cat footed is where it looks like you cut the foot off and the toes are straight down. Having tight feet is where the whole foot is on the ground/bench with their toes arched.

Blueticking:it had a good way of putting it between a cheetah and a lion.

I need to remember never to go to Neenah,WI with my "conformationally correct" dogs and to take my ugly ones.

R and J...

Honestly I think the dog and cat registries are a little behind in the times...

In ANY other type of animal showing there is a special class for altered animals. Geldings are shown at horse shows, geldings and non-breeding females can also be shown in cattle, sheep, goat, alpacas, chickens, etc. Not sure about pigs... that's one thing I haven't shown before!

Seems like for all the complaining that is done about lower numbers, clubs with financial strain, lack of interest in the sport, blah, blah, blah, the hound world would look for new ways to increase attendance (which increases $$) at the shows. Adding a special class for altered animals would accomplish this.

I think it should at least be given as an OPTION for clubs to make the decision on their own as to whither or not to include a class like this. Maybe I am wrong and there isn't a demand for it, but to make it illegal without giving people a choice or a voice in the matter isn't exactly right.

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"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing."
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KEY WORD

The key word is coonHOUND not coondog, the hounds of years ago werent cat footed slick with tight short coats, Black & Tan is the oldest american coonhound look at some pics of them and look at some of todays b&t, granted the big ears didnt serve much purpose and was bred out of the hounds. But it is what people want in a hound , i dont understand some people they think its got to look good to be correct , same as a set of papers it has to be All Grand to make anything.The HOLLYWOOD EFFECT i guess

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Just because they run and tree doesnt make them a COONDOG

Question....

Is it true you can hunt a spayed female? If so can you also single register them? I'm just wondering, When I first started out hunting, my friend found a stray hound that has no history, and I took her to start hunting. She turned out to be a great hound. However, she had an umbilical hernia and so, I opted to get it repaired and at the same time spayed, because hernias are sometimes hereditary. I am just wondering, I know of some people who have hunted spayed females and I was just wondering if this was o.k. or if those folks just got away with breaking the rules.

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NITECH CH 'Pr' Bear Creek Coon Crazy Kacey...I miss you!



"Keep smiling, it makes people wonder what you're up to."

There are 3 kinds of people in this world...those who want things to happen, those that make things happen, and those who just wonder what the hell happened!


Owner/Handler: Stephanie J. Dowd

My thought on the spayed or neutured is you may have a great dog that won't be a good producer...just because it can't produce doesn't mean you shouldn't promote it...promoting would help the parents...I would assume...I had forgotten about cattle and such...and thats true.... but heck geldings can show against mares and what not...To me I would think you would get more people interested..it would cut back on the accidental breedings that DO happen and maybe those out there who have exceptional dogs who have not proved themselves as producers could truly still enjoy their dog in the competive sport area instead of having to settle as pleasure. Its just a thought.....I didn't know how many of you out there were of the same opinion.

I think you can have a single registered dog...but as far as I know the rules are you can't hunt/show a spayed animal.

Jennifer

__________________
English, the other coon dog.

RJEnglishKennel
Roger and Jennifer Davidson
573/819-5677
573/819-2252
rjenglishkennel@yahoo.com
http://www.rjenglishkennel.com/

the breed associations

determine the standards.
My first redbone was a neutered male from a shelter. I wanted to get him single registered, but that was not possible. However, UKC does allow neutered hounds to show under a "special" class for everything but coonhounds. I hear somethng similar is allowed for AKC showdogs. If the coonhound breed associations wanted to allow this, the groundwork is there. It would just take someone with a storng desire to campaign their neutered hound, and a lot of work.
I talked to some people about getting my pound hound special status so he could show, and got some support. I decided not to do it because he had temperament problems.
My current redbone came with only one testicle. We waited for 2 1/2 years hoping the other one would drop, but when it didn't, we neutered him. This guy was a show quality dog other than that flaw. The NRCHA has debated allowing redbones with one testicle to show--there was a famous stud dog in the past that only had one nut, and he shows up again a lot of redbone bloodlines. My own thought is that it does not impede the dogs ability in the woods or its ability to reproduce. The health issues are pretty minor--a very slight increase in testicular cancer rate. They're a lot less serious than bad hips, for instance.
I am all for allowing grade dogs in hunts and single registration of neutered hounds--might get some new people into the sport. Couldn't hurt much since the spayed/neutered dogs aren't going to be reproducing.
If you have a spayed/neutered dog that you would like to show, talk to your breed association about it, and see if you can't get a special dispensation for it. Check with AKC, and check with the requirements for a UKC all-breed show. Someone's got to be the first to test the waters!

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esp

Honorable

I actually think it is honorable for someone to fix a dog they don't intend on breeding. Why should someone who does something honorable be punished for it?

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by rednitehunter
Getting off the topic of a sterile dog...., seems a lot of people don't know the difference between a tight foot and cat footed. Cat footed is where it looks like you cut the foot off and the toes are straight down. Having tight feet is where the whole foot is on the ground/bench with their toes arched.

Blueticking:it had a good way of putting it between a cheetah and a lion.

I need to remember never to go to Neenah,WI with my "conformationally correct" dogs and to take my ugly ones.

---

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Go Team BLUE Wolf River-Thunder Blue Kennels

a spayed or nueterd dog is done that way for a reason usally agressiveness, or they have a genetic problem that the owner may feel it will pass on, ukc states the no agfressive behavior, or major faults, and a breeders ethic code says you shouldn't breed a hound or dog if you know it carries a genetic fault. there fore owners who won't cull and animale for them faults have them spayed or nuetered, on the other had a sterile male or FEMALE doesn't carry a genetic fault or show aggresiveness is allowed to show, they meet the standard they just can't reproduce pups, there fore they are no threat, it's not like a sterile dog can produce another non sterile dog, but if that nuetered or spayed dog was not fixed it would produce problem with the offspring. why would anyone spay or nueter the animals.

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LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

quote:

---

Originally posted by scott shaw
Rednitehunter, I'm just saying some people go overboard with
the looks and forget about ability. I look at ability first, but I
do like a good looking dog. I've never saw a coon climb a tree
just to sit there and admire a dogs looks! I also have owned
quite a few Champion and Grand Champion show dogs, but
it means nothing to me if they are not a coondog. There are several breeds of working dogs out there that don't now
how to work anymore, just look pretty!

---

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ITS TRUE OHHH ITS D_MN TRUE
KRAUSES NORTHWOOD HOUNDS
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NCh PR KRAUSES NORTHWOOD timber diva
2nd place nitech heartland classic friday nite 500+


Tim & Laura Krause

I have never understood why UKC doent allow altered dogs to compete. Face it, 1 in 100 males is fit for breeding, and maybe 1 in 10 females. We are supposed to be using the best for reproduction, and the rest are just hunting dogs.


The way I see it, a title shows the PARENTS of the dog can produce. Why not let altered dogs compete to prove there parents. Keeping only the best intact to produce future generations.

There are alot of dogs who are fine for hunting, but arent breeding quality. The reason alot of dogs arent fixed now is because they can't compete if they are. So they just sit around untill someone gets bored and puts them in a pen togather to get pups.


Im not usualy anti-UKC, but I never agreed with this policy of having to be intact to enter. The reason why its that way, is because it is assumed if a dog it titled it will be bred. Bringing in money on pup regestrations and owner transfers. It all comes down to $$$$$$$$$$$.


I have had several over the years who I wouldnt use for breeding, but were capible of earning a title. I only keep the ones around who I am planing on using for breeding, and didnt want the others bred by someone else, so instead of altering them and selling them I shot them or destroyed there papers.

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GRNTCH GRCH ROBINSONS ENGLISH LOOSER

RIP Loose

Nuetering a dog will rarely take away aggressive behavior. I've seen qyite a few females that would maul other dogs. It's not always the males with the mean streak. Once they learn the behavior..it's a behavior related problem...not a sexual one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mjflores
I think they should change the rules so we can compete with spayed/nuetered dogs! To me this is crazy...if a dog has testicle cancer, UKC would rather it die then for it to be fixed and continued in the NT hunts and shows?? There's plenty of GrNtCh's that will never get the opportunity to sire a litter, so whats the big deal exactly??

---

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a spayed or nueterd dog is done that way for a reason usally agressiveness, or they have a genetic problem that the owner may feel it will pass on, ukc states the no agfressive behavior, or major faults, and a breeders ethic code says you shouldn't breed a hound or dog if you know it carries a genetic fault. ________________________________________

Thats a broad statement...Alot of people neuture or spay their animals because they are not interested in having intact animals. Some people may want the dog as a pet and want to bench so it...what is the wrong in that? Who has the right to say for whatever the reason being that it was neutured or spayed that they can't or shouldn't show for that reason...and if it was for a possible genetic problem, at least they are stopping the possibility of it being passed and should be commended for doing so...

Jennifer

__________________
English, the other coon dog.

RJEnglishKennel
Roger and Jennifer Davidson
573/819-5677
573/819-2252
rjenglishkennel@yahoo.com
http://www.rjenglishkennel.com/

I agree, MOST dogs are NOT spayed or neutered because there is a problem with the animal, most are done so because the family either doesn't want to deal with a bleeding female attracting every neighborhood mutt in town and getting pregnant with more mutts, or they want to try and keep the male at home more while possibly protecting him from cancer and various other illnesses that non-neutered dogs are prone to. I don't think it is right to assume that just becuase an animal is altered it is inferior to others due to some temperment, genetic, or ability fault.

I have never had to have an animal altered due to a problem with the animal, but until we had hounds for competition every animal we owned was spayed or neutered.. pure bred, show dog, and mutt alike. We were not interested in having animals for breeding, we had them as pets and family members to enjoy.

Since getting hounds, that hasn't been an option unless we just wanted a nice ornament on the porch. Not every animal should be bred, but by not allowing them to show or hunt UKC (and the other breed registries) is actually making the problem worse because those animals that should be fixed aren't.

__________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing."
__________________________
www.ansfarms.net

CH 'PR' Cox's Absolute Envy
CH 'PR' White Liar's Just A Digit
Hillbilly Bones

Gone but Not Forgotten:
CH 'PR' Cox's Sweet Mountain Magic 2005-2010

AMEN LARRY POE!

__________________
English, the other coon dog.

RJEnglishKennel
Roger and Jennifer Davidson
573/819-5677
573/819-2252
rjenglishkennel@yahoo.com
http://www.rjenglishkennel.com/

I know you cant show a altered.You can hunt em in the nights cant you?