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-- what does the redbone breed lack (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=12186)

The ones I have experience with

Are lacking body parts!

I have said it before. The old redbones were a whole different color around here. They were a rusty colored red. I don't see anymore that color, and I also haven't seen one win a cast in years. They were bred to get that cherry red, and lost the hunt.

Wade is definitely right about breeders being strain blind. This is holding my breed of choice back, but a few men are working together and winning.

There are redbones out there that can win, but it is the same people year after year. But, jealousy keeps others from hunting these lines. Maybe there is a fault you don't like, but faults can be improved over time. Right now, I would say the redbone breed as a hunting dog is very much in danger.

not enough braggers

If we are lacking one thing in this breed it is a lack of bragging on our hounds. And if there's one thing we have way to much of then that would be folks that only pick out the faults .Call a breed no good enough and every one thinks it's true.

This breed has as many good hounds on a percentage basis as any other breed we just don't have the numbers.

Here's a little bragging for ya . I've hunted with "Little Red" when the Biggert boys owned him ..he is all coonhound ..I hunted with the Kate female she is as hard of a tree dog as any and doesn't lack any drive. I've hunted with Maitlands "Pete" and he is for sure a coonhound of any color ,I've seen John Millers old dog "Spice" tree coon no other dog in the cast could even smell and do it like she could see it. I've heard more people that were beaten by the "Tex" dog say that it was one of the best dogs they've ever seen of any color bar none.and have hunted with "Sage" owned by my friend Ryan Briggs and seen him swim back and forth on a tough river coon and tree him when all other just quit. None of these dogs lack drive ,or tree power ,all can move a bad track and are as accurate as any hound. They are not perfect dogs but are what most hunters want in a hound. And they are all bred differently.

There are many more that I haven't listed just because of room.Let's hear a little more about them.

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Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Wad, good thread

Starplott's post was particularily insightful. I learned from this thread. I don't think that the Red dogs lack an advocate.

I will share this with you. I have put a little effort into researching scent hounds, or rather their history. I believe that history repeats itself all too often. This is pertinent in regard to that comment about breeding for the cherry color. There was a line of English Foxhounds started at the Belvoir Kennel circa 1900. A description of one of these hounds is as follows: "[M]assive hounds, with forelegs resembling bedposts, were at the peak of fashion. It seems almost inconceivable that a hound of this type should have been evolved from the beautiful clean-limbed, lightly built, active sorts which were popular in the early nineteenth century. Those huge forelegs, knuckling over at the knee, and the perpendicular line from shoulder to foot, together with the great width of chest, make it seem impossible that he [the dog being described] could gallop fast enough to keep himself warm- let alone catch a hunted fox."

The end result of that line becoming dominant was that many Foxhounds lost the ability to hunt. It seems that the English has to use the Welsh Foxhound (looks like a tri-colored Irish Wolfhound) to get the speed and desire back into the breed. At the peak of fashion, was that what the cherry color was about?

Well, hell I have owned two of them little red devils. First one I got was from Tim Fenske outta that To The Maxx line that Joe Maitlands been messin with. That **** dog stunk like rotten onions but boy he had drive. He always left in a full sprint and he didn't care what the other dog I was hunting did. Sadly he got hit on the road second night of this hide season after treeing 4 coon in and hour and a half. The second one I have is just a youngin yet. He's outta that Pete dog of Joe Maitlands(that stubby legged little red thing that looks more like a coyote) But I tell you what, if this little youngin who I named Lil' Dinky lacks anything it sure as heck aint drive. I think the worst think about him is that he is stubborn. I can't wait to get him in the woods this next fall because boyz and girlz he is gonna get them coons. I gaurantee it. That little red devil jumps five feet in the air and I think them extra toes give him the extra boost. And he sticks out at night like a white guy at a african american family reunion(NOT TRYING TO DISCRIMINATE OR ANYTHING JUST A METAPHOR) because of that big white flag on his chest but hell he is doing just fine. You best be watchin out for this dog when I get him hunting. Thats all I have to say. Ok, I'm done braggin now.

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Jordan Hall
(715)297-4485
Wausau, Wi

Red Cedar’s 3-legged dog has a huge amount of drive and heart must be compensating for that missing leg. Sawblade’s Fiddle dog does not know what give up means, she’ll go till she’s under a coon, and she is throwing pups with the same determination and ability. I have seen Tex just work magic on an old coon track that no other dog could even smell. Bozo can flat dominate a cast with first strikes all nite long making the other hounds look like the “me too” dogs. Hattie, an 11 year old red female can drive a track through the harshest cattail marsh till the old coon has used up every trick in his book and have the meat and tree every breath no matter how long it takes to get to her. There is a lot of quality redbones out there and there are a lot of breeders breeding for the “duel purpose” hound. For me the “hunt”, “drive”, and “stay put” need to be there first and foremost. That’s why I always try to finish mine out to show champ before they are one or so because after that they're so scarred up from hunting and coon fights that the judges just can’t help but notice the switch grass whipped eyes, ripped up ears, no hair on the tail, etc…. I know it’s not supposed to matter but a lot of times it does when you get right down to it.
~Kelly

everything in a nutshell.

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Outfit Kennels
Michael Nye
910 381 6214
Powered by Purina

Red Cedar, I loved your post and thanks for the laugh.I also agree with Sawblade and will also state that show dogs have not ruined the redbone breed,the problem is the person buying a hound or a pup letting the looks overule the complete hound.I always have and always will believe there is no reason whatever for a person not to have both looks and hunting ability in their hound.A lot of people that run down this breed have never hunted with very many and base their opinions on the handful they hunted with to determine the overall breed.
As to strain blindness...if a breeder is successful in his or her breeding program and producing hounds that suit their needs and a strong demand for the left over pups then I don't blame them for sticking with what they have as long as they are producing coonhounds.That's what the big breeders of all breeds do.
The biggest fault with the Redbone is jealousy of each other to the point of verbally downgrading each other because one may have done more for the promotion of the breed than the other.It is not because the hounds are not coonhounds but their owners sometimes are a little childish.
The main problem with the Redbone Breed is the same problem the other four off breeds have and that is the overall popularity of the Walker breed which leaves very few hunters that want to follow any of the other five breeds.The Redbone breed is no worse off than the other four breeds compared to the overwhelming popularity of the Walkers.It doesn't matter if the people that hunt walkers do so just to be on the band wagon of a winning breed or for the fact that they like the hunting style,the fact is that for whatever their reasons they choose the walkers and it leaves a lack of people with any interest in the other breeds.

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Friends are Cherished and Hunting is a Pleasure
Pete Miles

First of all thanks Dan Cahoy for the compliments on my dog. In away I can agree with some of you on lack of drive some of these dogs have. I have been looking for a good female Redbone for about a year and most of the ones I have tried seemed to fall in that catagory. In know there are a quite few that have the drive but I think alot of hunters don't see alot of red dogs and when they do hunt with a Redbone its one of the slower type and they automaticly think there all like that. I know there's alot of work to be done within the breed but I think were all begining to see what we need to to bring it back to the top.
Just my opinon

Tim Hoeck
Nite Ch PR Sioux River JJ Junior Preformance Sire

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Tim Hoeck

Also does anyone know where there's a good Redbone Female for sale ?
Tim Hoeck

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Tim Hoeck

TIM H.

JUST MAKE SURE OLE RED IS READY COME SPRING LOL SHOULD BE HUNTIN WITH YA REAL SOON LOL. IF NOTHIN ELSE WE WILL HAVE A GOOD TIME.

AND ROSS HAS 5 OF THEM PUPS SUCKIN ON A PITBULL AND 2 ON A RAT TERRIER LOL HOPEFULLY THEY DONT TAKE AFTER THERE MAMAS LOL

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DAKOTA BLUE KENNELS
HOME OF UKC PERFORMANCE SIRE
"DUAL CH. DAKOTA BLUE JAMMER"
4 WINS TOWARD GR NT
4 WINS TOWARD GR SH
AND REPRODUCIN!!

Tim Hoeck

is that JJ Junior a pup out of Spencers Glissons JJ dog?? and if it is what female is he off of?? Lucy?? thanks Justin

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I've never hunted with one that I found myself saying anything good about later. I remember one that was winning hunts a few years ago. My friend bought him and we hunted quite a bit. All I could think was that if this dog was a walker, nobody would pay it any attention at all. Because it was a redbone everybody was excited about it. Granted, I don't go out of my way to hunt with red dogs, so maybe there are some around that I'd like. I haven't seen them yet.

On the other hand, I like my dogs half crazy. There are a lot of people that are sick of my favorite one.

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bruce ordway

Blacklabel

No, He's out of sandy Creek JJ who's out of Sandy Creek Jake which all come from John McBrides Kennel in Texas.
Tim Hoeck

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Tim Hoeck

Seriously, do they really lack anything?

That any other breed lacks?

I got lucky with my first red. I'll never hunt anything else. I like seeing a red dog do well in a cast of dogs containing other "superior"breeds.

My first red will do a good job treeing coon. My second red did a good job treeing coon, my third red is doing a good job treeing coon...I mean really, where are all these lousy redbones? I'm pretty much three for three with them and I suck when it comes to training dogs!!! My hounds aren't world beaters, but whose are?

Some of the most awesome performances I have witnessed in the timber came from a redbone hound. Some of the best times I have had in the timber were directly related to redbone owners. Here is a short list of good red hounds and good red prospects whose owners I've been lucky enough to hunt with in no specific order. I'd take any one of them.

Grnt.South Branch Midnite Pete
Grnt.Sawblade Fiddle
Grnt. T-top Rabble Rouser
NtCh Wylie
Ntch. Christmas Tree
Nt.Ch Hot Tip
Grnt Raddlin' Kid
Nt.Ch Maggie
Stubs Zeb dog out of Banjo
Grnt Outlaw Sue
Nt. Ch Joe

Redbones ain't lacking a thing. That is, if you know where to look and ain't afraid to seek them out.
RC

There is no perfect redbone, but show me a perfect dog of any breed! this talk of the Redbone breed being in total shambles is pure B.S. i will believe it when i cant find one to be competitive with anymore! they are out there boys! i am far from saying the dogs i hunt cant be beat, but here is an open invitation to anybody out there reading; come hunt ten nights and i guarentee you arent going to win all 10! Here is some references from your own breeds
Mark Jones(slugger)walker
alan holding(rocket)black and tan
JJ Callahan(Ray)bluetick
marv schmacker( rocky II)english
Call and ask these men if there is still reddogs out there that can compete!

ive had several red dogs that made me happy at the time--none that i would feed now. temperment is what i find lacking along with very little drive. i have hunted with a few that i would like to have tied up here and would like a red with potential to work with but there is a very short list of hunting stock promoters. the red and black dogs won too many shows for their own good. i think there needs to be a balance between hunting and show people to improve the breed as a whole. when one of you figure out how to get this done tell me so i can use it on these blues lol

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HOME OF
dual grch.n.bl.sampson's diamond rock--ukc top reproducer
dual grch.will's creek blue ben
grch.will's creek stinging sadie--ukc top reproducer
ch.will's creek stinging katie
dual grch.willscrk quaker blue music
ch.rock's northern blue shadow--ukc top reproducer
nitech.will's creek diamond dandy
nitech.rock's northern blue jammer
nitech.grch.will's creek bawling bl luke
nitech. will's creek stinging sadie ll
ch.grntech.will's creek slim
nitech.will's creek blue maggie

Re: Seriously, do they really lack anything?

quote:

---

Originally posted by red cedar
..... breed lacks?
I got lucky with my first red. I'll never hunt anything else.

---

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bruce ordway

hey RC-

dude, I got me another one of them s--teatin reddogs coming. Ask me about h-- sometime. Top secret weapon.

Two more in the works but we gotta sort out some financial odds & ends first this spring. Buy backs sold as pups.

This makes me want another Reddog

Wade all this knockin I hear from people makes me want to prove them wrong. I think that you were trying to fire up the redbone hunters Wade...... I hope it works I'll do my part this spring keep watch for McGraw's Pleasant Valley Wink. I also think that to the contrary the Breed is more alive than it's been in years good things are coming be patient. If I can just find the right Coyote Female to breed to wink I'll believe I will have the world beater everyone's waiting for now thanks to Maitland's version of acclimating yote/redbone crosses to main stream competition huntin. LOL!!

well ray and the rest of the rebone people out there, heres notice guy and wade lucking are stepping up to the plate with a new stud dog that is reproducing. he is going to be advertised every month, right now we have 9 pups out of him and feel 4 of them can make nt.ch. with in the year( may require some more handlers note i said more not slick). we strongly feel he will improve the breed as a whole. joe maitland has hunted with this dog, and anyone else that wants to see him go lets go hunting, but more important lets turn his pups loose alone or with yours it don't matter. his pups are all under 2 years old. (red cedar this is for you , rooster treed 35 coon byhimself at 11 to 14 months old, you were right when you said he just looks like a coondog)
if you truely want to breed your females to a go hunting independent stay put tree dog that is reproducing watch for the ads coming up.

famous amos (3rd / 4th generation)
brunswick little man( ( 5th generation 2 times)
hayes ramblin red ace ( 4th generation)
just 3 of the well known dogs in pedigree

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LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

I've got a GRCH female that has those same names in her line:

famous amos (5th/6th gen top & bottom numerous times)
brunswick little man (5th/6th gen numerous times)
hayes ramblin red ace (5th/6th gen numerous times)
melton's red fireball (4th/5th/6th gen top & bottom numerous x's)
timber chopper (6th gen)
coffman little joe
chickominy max

I like red dogs. I've hunted with blueticks, english and walkers, but I just prefer red dogs. In fact, this past friday night, I got a first place win on my male with 475+ and 0 minus and beat 2 walkers and another very good red female. My male dog also just finished number 5 in the top ten redbones for the 2003 year, his name is Gr.Ch. soggy bottom red dawg. anyway, my point is, this is one good looking hound that can hunt and win in competition as well, I plan to finish him this spring. Plus, some people have said the redbones have showed to much. well, this past year was my first trip to autumn oaks, and I absolutely loved it. but at the show i sure saw alot of walkers in that show, more than the rest of the breeds. interesting huh? well, just my 2 cents.

Pastor mike

I started coonhunting last August. My dog was about 5 months old then. The old boy I went with then and a few since have told me to just be patient. None of them owned Red dogs but told me from their experience they develop slower and are hard-headed as all get out.

I thought it was B.S. and they were just knockin' the Redbones....but they were pretty on. It took a little while but then the first night my dog finally went hunting with other dogs he treed lay-up at the first two dumps....the other dogs couldn't smell a thing at the tree, next dump he split treed about 20 yards from another dog and they both had meat.

What am I rambling about....doing a little bragging and I also think Redbone owners/breeders may lack a little patience.

I would also like to see folks with good females hook up with these guys with good males and breed and then look for Redbone people willing to hunt them for them....kinda like a Redbone owners/hunters collaborative effort.

Either way it goes...I love em!!!!

No complaints here!

My male (Amos) I think would impress any real coonhunter. Sadly, he's going on 9 years old and doesn't much care for adult male dogs and has become more aggressive at the tree with age so we don't feel we could compete with him. His previous owner preferred to pleasure hunt him.
Ole' Amos is a doll baby back here at the house. You couldn't ask for a bigger cuddle bug. Very alert to everything around him but a heart stealer none the less. But you show him a tree or two and BOY is he excited!! He wants a track and he wants it NOW! And he knows where to look. lol He is a tough treeing fool. He's missing some teeth from chewing the bark! We live in Michigan and we drove to PA to pick Amos up. This made for a long, exhausting trip (2 days) for the ole' boy I'm sure. Plus the stress of new owners, new enviroment, etc. We arrived home in the evening. We took Amos for a short walk down our dirt road the next afternoon and that ol' fart smelled coon and went for it! Like a bolt of zigging lightning. Imagine my husband who just wanted to calmly walk his new treasure and bond with him and ZAP.. the race is on... don't dare let him loose off lead because he's a new guy in town. Wouldn't want him ending up back in PA. So there's John being pulled around 100 different trees per second like a pull toy at the mercy of a hyperactive 3 year old... I was laughing so hard I had tears flowing and thought I'd lose my balance and fall right down. LOL But if that isn't a full blooded coondog, none is!
I thought I'd be more interested in the bench shows only until that day... Amos's excitement for coon has caught fire and now I'm gung ho for hunting them red dogs too! His fire and zest is certainly contagious. I get excited just thinking about him in the woods.
We have a female who is much like Amos as well.

As for breeding for the total dog... I am keeping a male out of Amos and the female who is similar in drive, temperment, etc (Ruby). John will of course be training him in the ways of coonhunting and I will be preparing him for the bench. But not just that, I also have my eyes on obedience, tracking and TDI. I want to pursue proving him as the 'total' dog. Make him an ambassador of the breed so to speak. He isn't even conceived yet. I know I have my work cut out for me but I'm game! I've been planning for him for a year now. We are hoping he makes his big debut this April.

And trust me... I'm gonna be tooting his horn nice and LOUD! ;-)
In a couple years you all will have a red force to reckon with in them there woods. *big smile*
His name is tentatively Ironwood Code Red ;-)
Remember the name.... {{{imagine the music here.. hehe}}}


We have a new website.
http://www.farmsites.com/ironwood/
Go check out the pedigrees of these animals. I'd love to know your opinions on the planned matings.

Janet

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John & Janet Ford
Michigan
,-._,-.
\/)"(\/
(_o_)

The only time that you should look down on anyone is when you're helping them up.