UKC Forums - Gray Area on dogs fighting

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Posted by T.Beyer on 10-09-2006 09:46 PM:

Hmm I thought I knew the answer, but I think a few of these other guysa re more spot on that I was.

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Posted by jda on 10-09-2006 10:17 PM:

how about a 3 dog cast...hunt is over with ....dogs tree after the nunt time..the judge stays at the truck(hurt knee)the other 2 cast members go into the tree and leash the dogs.one dog lunges at another and face barks..they decide to scratch the dog....it is questioned and taken to the moh......

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Posted by larrypoe on 10-09-2006 10:28 PM:

I'm probly gonna take alot of heat for this, but here goes.

I have one of those dogs I would garrentee would never fight. In his whole life he has never even growled at another dog. He doesnt like kennels, so he stays on a chain. I have to keep a self feeder there because the pups, yard dogs, and cats, will starve him to death if you just feed him in a bowl. He will back away and let them have it. Hell he has a pet cat that sleeps in his box with him, and HAD FREAKIN KITTENS in his box. Puppys lick his face and run him off his own food bowl.

Guess what????????? He got scratched a week ago friday night for fighting. First tree, the others treed with him still running. No problems noted except 1 female who would not tree, only locate. When we got to the tree, all 3 were there but only 1 was on the tree. The other 2 were standing back treeing. Tree was circled.

We cut back in to mine, and within a couple hundred yards they were treed agian. Within a couple of minutes we heard blowing. Mine was right and then left of the tree. He finaly came in and took 3rd tree. 3 1/2 minutes into the 5 ( female is locating but is never treed) we had decided they were in a hole. About that time all hell broke loose. We ran in and found 2 dogs back circling the tree, and mine and the dog who was standing on the first tree treed. The other dog was standing 5 feet or so from the tree, opposite side of the tree from mine.

Just about the time we were going in to handle them, the female circles by my dog and he comes off the tree growling and snapping. I grabbed him and busted his ass, and yelled scratch that SOB.

The other dog treeing had blood on him.

These 2 had hunted togather pleasure hunting with no problems ever.

It wasnt intill the next day I noticed mines tracking collar was only hanging on by the bottem 2 screws. The top ones where pulled out.

I still dont know for sure what happened. I dont think the other dog is mean. I know mine isnt. Still at the time we saw it, he was the aggresser. He earned his scratch and he got it. I have tried for over a week to get an off bark out of him and cant.

Moral of the story: They are dogs. You never know what they will do.

You can bet I will still use mine for a puppy trainer every night.

Posted by david white on 10-09-2006 10:54 PM:

4-dog cast. 3 dogs run a faster than normal track along ways thru the country. The other dog does not open and comes in. Are the other 3 dogs scratched for running off game or do you have to see it?

3-dog cast. 2 dogs strike and run a short race. A odd bark is heard from one of the 2 dogs where the track seemed to end. Do you scratch the 2 dogs because they may have caught something off or do you have to see it?

This could go on and on.

Posted by george florence on 10-10-2006 12:03 AM:

Im sorry, but You cant just scratch any dog yours wont tree with.

yes, this call was questioned. There was a very brief argument by the owner in his dogs defense. The only defense used was that we didn't see it, he never at any time argued that his dog wasn't rough. He knows what he brought to the hunt, he just planned on getting away with it. As for scratching every dog mine won't tree with, there probably wouldn't be very many left if that was the case. Like I said, she's about half nuts. If you have a dog jacking the tree, she won't be on it. There are a lot of crazy tree dogs, that doesn't make them mean.

Posted by josh smedley on 10-10-2006 03:23 AM:

Re: Im sorry, but You cant just scratch any dog yours wont tree with.

quote:
Originally posted by george florence
yes, this call was questioned. There was a very brief argument by the owner in his dogs defense. The only defense used was that we didn't see it, he never at any time argued that his dog wasn't rough. He knows what he brought to the hunt, he just planned on getting away with it. As for scratching every dog mine won't tree with, there probably wouldn't be very many left if that was the case. Like I said, she's about half nuts. If you have a dog jacking the tree, she won't be on it. There are a lot of crazy tree dogs, that doesn't make them mean.

The dog in the instance you mentioned was scratched because you assume that he was the aggressive one. I don't think, in that case, any of the dogs should have been scratched, but if you were going to scratch one they should have all been scratched. The dog that finishes a fight don't necessarily start it.

Posted by truly on 10-10-2006 05:04 AM:

wldchinsanejane

and how would you score this?three dogs treed at end of hunt.get fifty feet from tree obviuosly dogs together. fight breaks out. when judge arrives two dogs there just getting seperated (from fight). third dog left tree . grinner in tree. you make the call.

Posted by huntingwalkers9 on 10-10-2006 05:23 AM:

truly depends on if hunting nitech or reg.

if hunting nitech and the dog was declared treed then you would scratch him for treeing off game...reg cast he would be minused either way.

the other two dogs are scratched

you folks arent gettin the concept...under the authority of the judge means when he has the scorecard...interefering with the dogs ability to hunt means you have to be in the woods.

if dogs growl at each other at the gas station, cant do nothing about it..dogs growl at each other on the leash..cant do nothing about ... dogs get in fight scratch.

dog face barking on tree while on lead cant scratch him because he isnt interfering with the other dogs ability to HUNT.

oh and george florence, you would have had an Ahole on the cast if that was my dog scratched

david white..judges call weither to scratch for off game or not..me personally think that you should have to see it, the same way on fighting...and for the second question if you go down there and there is a dead grinner and only one dog do you scratch him/ or both the dogs that were heard on it?????

JDA i would question it and then it would get over turned because the judge wasnt there to see it...UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE JUDGE means he has to be there..plus face barking doesnt count as fighting

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Posted by TJ RAYFIELD on 10-10-2006 05:29 AM:

Tim I feel the same way you do about it.3 dog cast 2 dogs tree,fight breaks, you get to em 3rd dog is standing there but not treed this is where a lite broke dog comes into play.I don't believe you can scratch the dog standing there yes their is a possiblility that he started it but their is also a possibility hes coming into the tree and got runned off.I SAY SCRATCH THE OTHER 2 DOGS DECLARED TREED THEY WERE THE ONLY 2 TOGETHER.

Posted by truly on 10-10-2006 05:33 AM:

hw9

was nite ch

Posted by jda on 10-10-2006 05:36 AM:

HUNTINGWALKERS9 THATS HOW I RULED IT..AND DID I EVER TAKE SOME CRAP FOR IT....

Posted by huntingwalkers9 on 10-10-2006 05:42 AM:

did it get over turned - ?

TRULY - got a kinda trick question here...did you see the dog treeing on the tree with the grinner...if not then i dont see that you could scratch him only minus him for moving since you really dont know what tree he was treeing on, benifit of the doubt...still scratch both dogs for fighting

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Posted by truly on 10-10-2006 05:57 AM:

tw9

trick answer to trick ? : i did see third dog on tree as i was last coming in, and first three cast members were in gully at the time fight broke out. two dogs were rolling ,,one treeing, is what i saw. interestingly, judge ruled that he couldnt scratch dogs for fighting because third dog could have started it. well if third dog could have started it wasnt he/she there. i would have ruled either scratch two for fighting or three for off game. didnt matter which to me but would have leaned towards scratching three.

Posted by huntingwalkers9 on 10-10-2006 06:06 AM:

well thats one of those "you got stuck" situations really the judge went blind, and the others didnt say anything because it was there dog..if i were judge and all dogs were declared treed i would imagine scratch all of them

i got scratched one time because i was putting a dip in and i was walking slower then the other cast members..hunting against a black n' tan, and a slow blue dog, our dog had been tearin the woods up all night...go to the tree they say get your dog your scratched, and i ask what for they said we seen him bite this black and tan on her head ... is that what i think happend no never been in a fight before....but no reason to ? it because i knew what the MOH was going to say...funny thing is he didnt scratch me for fighting he put on the card withdrew

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Posted by Joe S. on 10-10-2006 09:10 AM:

i thought the "during the authority of the judge" part would have to mean seeing it happen but ive been wrong to

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Posted by david white on 10-10-2006 04:19 PM:

Looks like alot of judges are going to be hunting the last half of the hunt by themselves.

Posted by jda on 10-10-2006 04:25 PM:

YES I OVER TURNED IT I WAS THE MOH I RULED UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE JUDGE AND IT DID NOT INTERFER WITH THE DOGS ABILITY TO RUN AND TREE A COON..TODD AND ALLEN BOTH BACKED ME.....

Posted by Jim Dyers on 10-10-2006 06:24 PM:

Here is what needs to be done is people who are hunting dogs like this just need to leave them at home. Also judges need to write the dogs up even if it is there buddy's instead of allowing them to withdraw there dogs wouldn't be as many mean one's going to the hunts then in my eyes.

Posted by Qball on 10-10-2006 06:35 PM:

to me you must know where all 4 dogs are before you can scratch any of them or see it happen. As if 1 dog split treed, 2 dogs treeing together and the 4th dog not barking you can't scratch the 2 dogs treeing together as it could have been the 4th dog come in and fight with the 2 dogs and leave. To me you must see it if you don't know where all dogs are at time of fight.

Posted by Hired Gun on 10-11-2006 12:33 AM:

There is no such thing as a dog fight in a scorecard hunt.

There is only jockeying for position. If my dog pulls your dogs head off while "adjusting" at the tree. Get a tougher dog.

The ones who cry the most about rough dogs are the ones packing chicken hearted, lilly livered, wimpy a$$, run away puppys. How they kill a coon is beyond me.

If yours isn't a stay put tree dog, CULL THE #### THING. It wont last long anyway. If you insist on hunting this kind of cull, hide hunt it alone at home.

These hunts are to title the future breeding stock. Not for you to put one on ol Sissy boy. Nuder the mutt, they aren't doing him any good anyway.

Just because ol Chew Toy III can tree a coon, doesn't make him a competition dog.

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Posted by truly on 10-11-2006 03:23 AM:

hired gun:

ukc has no clause 'jockeying for position'. ukc defines fighting as :when dogs are interfering with other dogs by aggressive behavior. and if folks like you would cull the rough ones the world would be a better place. get a good enough dog that you can win by treeing coon rather than by running my dog off!

Posted by Dan Dogs on 10-11-2006 03:32 AM:

ben

dont be so harsh on hired gun, coon season will be opening soon. i was going to invite hired gun up for a night of shooting, i would love to see his hi-powerd dog doing what he does best!!!

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Posted by truly on 10-11-2006 04:25 AM:

pokey

when you say a night of shooting, what were you thinking of shooting? i've a couple ideas.

Posted by RED EAGLE DICK on 10-11-2006 05:22 AM:

16x16x4 scratch line cajun rules let em fight till one turns then let the scratching start one that dont scratch scratch him....jmo

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Posted by huntingwalkers9 on 10-11-2006 06:18 AM:

i know i might be dumb at times..but that right there made absolutley no sense at all..

and hired gun if youthink that way and come hunt in NC, i'll let the dog bite me then call animal countrol to come pick him up and kill him

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