UKC Forums - King George our President

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Posted by tmcfalls on 07-31-2006 02:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DOC
some good thoughts... if it were not for $$$$ diplomacy the u.s. would not have to be involved in the affairs of other countries, no doubt the middle east is a situation that may never be under control, hebrew vs. muslim, shia vs. sunni, kurd vs. arab, persian vs. arab, tribe vs. tribe, on and on, but we trumpet democracy in nations that have no tradition-understanding empathy-or desire for it, that may be an unwinnable battle, hope-pray for best and that our brave men-women are safe-sound as they serve the nation with honor...

In 1776 there was no tradition or understanding of democracy either but it seems to have worked out pretty well. You can't really see what will sprout until after you have sown the seed.

Posted by tmcfalls on 07-31-2006 02:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by lkmlake19
Since GW has declared war on terrorism and attacked Iraq, world wide there has been more terrorist attacks then the 8 years of the Clinton administration. It is true we have not been attacked on our home land soil since 911, but the one who did attack us on 911 and prior to 911 is still running free and planing the next attack. Yes it is true Clinton droped the ball when he had Osama's head handed to him, but we can now say the same of GW. He droped the ball when he took his eye off Osama to attack Iraq. I am all for getting the terrorist that are out to get us, but this president has done a poor job understanding who the grave treat is and a great job pulling the blanket over the eyes of america. Iraq has been under the watch dog for 10 years prior to our invasion. Attacking Iraq before getting Qsama the master mind behind those attacks you listed and 911 is now the failer of this president. 910 I was a supporter of GW, but after 911 the blanket was no longer blinding me. As for the UN? You need to ask GW where he stands with the UN. As history has it, GW more or less said to the UN prior to his Iraq invasion, "screw you, I go alone" and now asking for their help. I'm not a hung fan of the UN, but with the right leadership it can be a valid source, for fighting the terrorist.

Safe hunting

The U.N. is a corrupt anti-American organization that I for one think we should not fund or tolerate. Koffi Annan has failed during every single crisis during his term. We should not yield our national sovereignty to such an organization.

Posted by DOC on 07-31-2006 02:57 PM:

1776 was a war for freedom by the colonies over issues they felt were mandated by tradition, Magna Carta etc.. the population or at least a large part of it sought this-supported, not the same in Iraq where in the hearts-souls-minds of the people we are viewed as an invader with conquest in mind... not saying this is our intent, but if one steps outside themselves and looks through the eyes of the other side- a different picture... hope you are correct and that democracy flourishes, but it has not for many centuries and may not not do so now... the Muslim world operates from the perspective of the vanquished in looking back at the Crusades and still operate-thinks from that perspective, view act toward the Christian- non muslim as an infidel.. again hope you are right, but all indicators are contrary...

Posted by tmcfalls on 07-31-2006 03:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DOC
1776 was a war for freedom by the colonies over issues they felt were mandated by tradition, Magna Carta etc.. the population or at least a large part of it sought this-supported, not the same in Iraq where in the hearts-souls-minds of the people we are viewed as an invader with conquest in mind... not saying this is our intent, but if one steps outside themselves and looks through the eyes of the other side- a different picture... hope you are correct and that democracy flourishes, but it has not for many centuries and may not not do so now... the Muslim world operates from the perspective of the vanquished in looking back at the Crusades and still operate-thinks from that perspective, view act toward the Christian- non muslim as an infidel.. again hope you are right, but all indicators are contrary...

I was just getting at that just because democracy is foriegn to those people does not mean that it will not take root. Lets hope that democracy takes root, if not the only possible solutions would be containment or genocide.

Posted by lkmlake19 on 07-31-2006 08:23 PM:

Buckshot, it has been nice debating with you, but unfortunately you are a little disoriented right now as are many. It’s always easier and convenience to blame the past administration for action or inaction of this administration. Our president today is George W. Bush. When Clinton, Bush Sr., Regan, and Carter were in office they all had there moments of screw-ups. You are like so many always blaming the previous administration. Hell should we go as fare as to blame Regan for his cut and run after the Beirut bombing that killed 250+ American soldiers? Who did we attack for that massacre? Should we blame Bush Sr. for ending the first gulf war to soon? No! They made their decision based on facts, realism and the impact it would have both positive & negative on our nation. Their decision may have not been popular for some and in some cases it may appear we could have done more, but to blame any past administration for this administrations action is absurd. We have lived our lives on this soil for 60 years prior to 911 thinking that we were bullet proof and for us to come close to another 60+ years we need to hold those accountable that are impacting us today not those of yesterday.

Have a great day.

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Posted by tmcfalls on 07-31-2006 08:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by lkmlake19
Buckshot, it has been nice debating with you, but unfortunately you are a little disoriented right now as are many. It’s always easier and convenience to blame the past administration for action or inaction of this administration. Our president today is George W. Bush. When Clinton, Bush Sr., Regan, and Carter were in office they all had there moments of screw-ups. You are like so many always blaming the previous administration. Hell should we go as fare as to blame Regan for his cut and run after the Beirut bombing that killed 250+ American soldiers? Who did we attack for that massacre? Should we blame Bush Sr. for ending the first gulf war to soon? No! They made their decision based on facts, realism and the impact it would have both positive & negative on our nation. Their decision may have not been popular for some and in some cases it may appear we could have done more, but to blame any past administration for this administrations action is absurd. We have lived our lives on this soil for 60 years prior to 911 thinking that we were bullet proof and for us to come close to another 60+ years we need to hold those accountable that are impacting us today not those of yesterday.

Have a great day.

Yes, we should blame both Reagan and Bush for those blunders as well as Carters mishandling of the Iran Hostage crisis as well as Clinton for his handling of Al queda. We should then learn from the past 30 years of mistakes and make sure they don't happen again.

Posted by Skinner on 08-01-2006 01:49 AM:

Originally posted by Buckshot
Since President Bush has been in office, how many terrorist attacks have occured after we declared war on terrorism after 911?
Sorry I must read something wrong.

Buckshot why do you keep saying that? I read that same propaganda on http://www.republicanandproud.com/

It just is not the truth. Please read this, please I beg you..

1993 WTC Bombing
In all, ten militant Islamist conspirators – including Ramzi Yousef – were convicted for their part in the bombing and were given prison sentences of a maximum of 240 years each.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing

1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia
Attacks against American forces and Westerners in the country were few until 1995. On November 13 of that year, a car bomb at an American office for training the Saudi Arabian National Guard exploded and killed five Americans and two Indians. Saudi officials arrested several men connected to this attack and beheaded them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Saudi_Arabia

1996 Khobar Towers
On June 21, 2001 an indictment was issued in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia charging the following people with murder, conspiracy, and other charges related to the bombing:
Ahmed Ibrahim Al-Mughassil
Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser
Ali Saed Bin Ali El-Hoorie
Ibrahim Salih Mohammed Al-Yacoub
Nine other Saudis
On June 21, 2001 an indictment was issued in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Virginia charging the following people with murder, conspiracy, and other charges related to the bombing:

Ahmed Ibrahim Al-Mughassil
Abdelkarim Hussein Mohamed Al-Nasser
Ali Saed Bin Ali El-Hoorie
Ibrahim Salih Mohammed Al-Yacoub
Nine other Saudis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khobar_Towers_bombing

1998 African Embassy
The criminal investigation ended with three hundred counts against the defendants. These counts included the utilization of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) against American targets, conspiracy to kill officers and employees of the U.S. government, conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals, and conspiracy to destroy U.S. buildings by the use of explosives. Defendants included:

Wadih El-Hage, the leader of the East African al Qaeda cell who arranged for the facilitation and delivery of false travel documents.

Mohammed Odeh, a technical advisor to al Qaeda operatives responsible for carrying out the bombings.

Mohamed Al-Owhali, an expert in explosives, hijacking and bombings who asked bin Laden for an assignment to execute jihad and personally threw stun grenades in an effort to force the embassy guard to allow him entry into the parking garage.

Khalfan Khamis Mohammed, who purchased the white Suzuki used to transport the components of the bomb, rented the house in Tanzania which operated as a bomb factory, helped put the bomb together, and loaded the bomb into the truck.

In a federal trial in New York City that ended in June 2001, Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-Owhali, Mohammed Odeh, Wadih el Hage, and Khalfan Khamis Mohamed were convicted of perpetrating the Nairobi bombing and were sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

Two Egyptian citizens, Ibrahim Hussein Abdel Hadi Eidarous and Adel Mohanned Abdul Almagid Bary, whose fingerprints were allegedly found on the letters claiming responsibility for the bombings, were arrested in London in 1999 by Scotland Yard at the request of the U.S. They were extradited and jailed.

Other alleged conspirators in custody include Khalid al-Fawwaz, a Saudi dissident who had been living in London since 1994. Al-Fawwaz was accused by the U.S. of helping Osama bin Laden to coordinate the attacks, and was ordered to be extradited. He denied the charges and remains in custody in London pending an appeal.

Anas Al-Liby was thought to have been captured in Afghanistan in 2002 during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan but it was later proven to be false, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani is believed to have been captured in Pakistan in 2004, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, whose brother was one of the suicide bombers, and who helped another of the bombers to get a Yemeni passport, is currently in the custody of the U.S. at an undisclosed location.

Mohammed Atef, indicted on November 4, 1998 for his role in orchestrating the attacks, was later reported killed by U.S. bombs during the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan.

Saif al-Adel is reportedly in the custody of the Iranian government.

Still at large
Osama bin Laden - indicted on November 4, 1998 for his role in ordering the attacks.
Ayman al-Zawahiri
Abdullah Ahmed Abdullah
Muhsin Musa Atwalli Atwa
Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali
Fazul Abdullah Mohammed
Mustafa Mohamed Fadhil
Fahid Mohammed Ally Msalam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_U.S._embassy_bombings

2000 USS Cole Bombing
On January 19, 2001, The Navy completed and released its Judge Advocate General Manual (JAGMAN) investigation of the incident, concluding that Cole's commanding officer "acted reasonably in adjusting his force protection posture based on his assessment of the situation that presented itself" when Cole arrived in Aden to refuel. The JAGMAN also concluded that "the commanding officer of Cole did not have the specific intelligence, focused training, appropriate equipment or on-scene security support to effectively prevent or deter such a determined, preplanned assault on his ship" and recommended significant changes in Navy procedures.

On November 3, 2002, the CIA fired a AGM-114 Hellfire missile from a Predator UAV at a vehicle carrying Abu Ali al-Harithi, a suspected planner of the bombing plot. Also in the vehicle was Ahmed Hijazi, a U.S. citizen. Both were killed. This operation was carried out on Yemeni soil, possibly with the cooperation of the Yemeni government.

On September 29, 2004, a Yemeni judge sentenced Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri and Jamal al-Badawi to death for their roles in the bombing. Al-Nashiri, believed to be the operation's mastermind, is currently being held by the U.S. at an undisclosed location. Al-Badawi, in Yemeni custody, denounced the verdict as "an American one." Four others were sentenced to prison terms of five to 10 years for their involvement, including one Yemeni who had videotaped the attack.

On February 3, 2006, 23 suspected or convicted Al-Qaeda members escaped from jail in Yemen. This number included 13 who were convicted of the USS Cole bombings and the bombing of the French tanker Limburg in 2002. Among those who reportedly escaped was Al-Badawi. Al-Qaeda's Yemeni number two Abu Assem al-Ahdal may also be among those now on the loose.

How is it that you keep believing these things? Its right there in the history books. Anything shy of that, I don't know what to say.

__________________
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Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

Posted by Buckshot on 08-01-2006 01:56 AM:

Skinner, go back and read my post in this thread. Did I not list the terrorist attacks you just listed? Did I not say they happened during Clintons administration?

quote:
While Clinton was in office, how many times did terrorst attack us?

1993 World Trade Center bombing, which killed six and injured 1,000.

1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five U.S. military personnel.

1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and injured 200 U.S. military personnel.

1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Africa, which killed 224 and injured 5,000.

2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured 39 U.S. sailors.

Posted by Skinner on 08-01-2006 03:26 AM:

quote:
Clinton did nothing. Clinton’s response? He turned tail and ran. The Clinton Administration did nothing. The Clinton response? Nothing.

Yes you did and you also stated Clinton done nothing about each one. That is a false statement.

__________________
Jody Scott
731-780-4407
Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

Posted by Skinner on 08-01-2006 03:44 AM:

quote:
Dr. Rice: Hijacking before 9/11 and hijacking after 9/11 do mean two very, very different things. And so focusing on it before 9/11 – perhaps it’s clear that after 9/11 you would have looked at this differently, but certainly not before 9/11.

Q: And no discussion in this briefing, or any others, about the possibility of al-Qaeda hijacking, and the fact that there have been active investigations into the possibility of a CIA building plot, or an Eiffel Tower plot. Never came up?

Dr. Rice: It did not come up.

From the 9-11 Commission report http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch11.htm

By 2001 the government still needed a decision at the highest level as to whether al Qaeda was or was not "a first order threat," Richard Clarke wrote in his first memo to Condoleezza Rice on January 25, 2001. In his blistering protest about foot-dragging in the Pentagon and at the CIA, sent to Rice just a week before 9/11, he repeated that the "real question" for the principals was "are we serious about dealing with the al Qida threat? . . . Is al Qida a big deal?"

So if that's the case, then why did'nt Condolezza say anything to bush? I have a hard time believing GW Bush knew nothing about the terrorist. Clinton warned them time after time. Was GW in a coma when all this took place? Did he not know what was going on in the world prior to him taking the Presidental chair?

__________________
Jody Scott
731-780-4407
Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

Posted by Skinner on 08-01-2006 03:57 AM:

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch11.htm

quote:
Early in 2001, DCI Tenet and Deputy Director for Operations James Pavitt gave an intelligence briefing to President-elect Bush, Vice President-elect Cheney, and Rice; it included the topic of al Qaeda. Pavitt recalled conveying that Bin Ladin was one of the gravest threats to the country.

Bush asked whether killing Bin Ladin would end the problem. Pavitt said he and the DCI had answered that killing Bin Ladin would have an impact, but would not stop the threat. The CIA later provided more formal assessments to the White House reiterating that conclusion. It added that in the long term, the only way to deal with the threat was to end al Qaeda's ability to use Afghanistan as a sanctuary for its operations.

Bush did'nt know? How could he not? He ask if killing bin laden would help matters any. This was in early 01.

__________________
Jody Scott
731-780-4407
Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

Posted by tmcfalls on 08-01-2006 01:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Skinner
Yes you did and you also stated Clinton done nothing about each one. That is a false statement.

He did many things, just about all of them were frivolous. Mainly he treated the whole matter as a law enforcement issue. His only "military' action was to fire some million dollar cruise missiles into Afghanistan to hit some empty tents and terrorist camels.

Posted by Hiphop on 08-01-2006 01:49 PM:

He really succeeded in Somalia too.

Posted by bamablues on 08-01-2006 04:17 PM:

Buckshot, finally someone that agrees with you. All else aside, I would like to see the people that are complaining do a better job. I don't think it would matter if it was the best President we have ever had, people would still find away to disagree, complain, or just try to convince everyone to not like him. There are some things I dont agree with either, but I still support him because he is our only hope of what little rights we still have here..... Okay lets say a Democrat or a really LIBERAL Democrat was in Office.. would we be in war? I sure hope we would after someone hijacks our planes and smashes them into our homeland killing our Americans. Yeah that was in 2001, but what are we suppossed to do pull out when terroist are still abroad. All the other is the past, what can we do about it now? All we can do know is suck it up and move on and wait to see what happens in the future so we can argue about that, lol. Oh well it is probably like talking to a steal post, that is my own opinion and we all are entitled.

And in regards to QUOTE "Safe Hunting..." (lkmlake19)
I would be rather happy knowing that we have some one in office that is for Hunting, than the Kerry--Left Wing Liberals that could care less for God, Guns, and the poor folks that Coonhunt. So in my own opinion I am just happy QUOTE "Little George" is here defending what rights we still have here America....

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Posted by Lee Ballard on 08-01-2006 04:26 PM:

Mr. Lake, I sure am glad that we agree on coondogs because we sure couldn't on political veiws. Slick Willie sure weaken are military.George got handed the job to clean up after him. We had several attacks attempted on the US during his time.Thats why N.Korea has the bomb. It was on Willie's watch.

Posted by TJ RAYFIELD on 08-01-2006 04:44 PM:

Lots of republicans on this post.

Posted by Outback1 on 08-01-2006 05:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by tmcfalls
The U.N. is a corrupt anti-American organization that I for one think we should not fund or tolerate. Koffi Annan has failed during every single crisis during his term. We should not yield our national sovereignty to such an organization.

we need to be in the UN becaulse it's better to have an idea what our enimies are doing.

ps i'd rather have King George than a Queen Kerry

reporting for duty,give me a break!

Posted by bamablues on 08-01-2006 06:43 PM:

Outback1 quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ps i'd rather have King George than a Queen Kerry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hahahaha

Posted by lkmlake19 on 08-01-2006 07:35 PM:

Lee-boy

Lee, your view is well taken, but you haven’t convinced me. I guess that’s what makes this country so great. We can debate and disagree, yet pack or hounds and guns to unite in what we love as a past time.
Its easy to blame the past administrations for today’s problems, but you also must be willing, open and have the courage to speak out against this administration for it’s blunders. I must re-confirm where I stand. I was all for boots on the ground in Afghanistan since they were behind 911. I was totally against invading Iraq. It was a war that could have waited until we completed the mission in Afghanistan. Yes, we have the capability to fight multiple fronts, but Iraq was less of a threat then North Korea, Iran, Syria and others. As I said before, the past administrations have all dropped the ball one time or the other, so let’s be fair in our criticism. This should not be a political debate rather what is best for the country. Now tell me the truth do you really think Iraq was the centerpiece for fighting those that could conflict the most harm on the US, or is Syria, Iran or North Korea?

Posted by GayleFlowers on 08-01-2006 08:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lee Ballard
Mr. Lake, I sure am glad that we agree on coondogs because we sure couldn't on political veiws. Slick Willie sure weaken are military.George got handed the job to clean up after him. We had several attacks attempted on the US during his time.Thats why N.Korea has the bomb. It was on Willie's watch.

Lee Go easy on Kraig he has been Breathing second hand smoke from all the hippies & Yippes in Ca.soon as he gets back to Indiana & gets all of that from his lungs his head will clear also

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Posted by lkmlake19 on 08-01-2006 09:23 PM:

Very true! The air here in CA most have something in it and it most be driffting eastward.
Keep those Enghish winning

Posted by Lee Ballard on 08-02-2006 05:37 AM:

Gayle, I will try to keep that in mind and give him a break.

Posted by Jerry Gullett on 08-02-2006 05:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Buckshot
I really think you missed the point.

Re-read who those terrorist attacks were against.

Now, that you have re-read and saw who those terrorist attacks were against, please list all the terrorist attacks against the US since Bush did something after 911.

tell that to the familys of the soldiers still geting killed in irac

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Posted by honalieh on 08-02-2006 06:18 AM:

A Simpler Solution!!!

Let each take the credit or blame for what happens under their own leadership!!!

Anything else is usually speculation and political spin, as opposed to TRUTH!!!

TRUTH IS TRUE!!! Speculation and spin is usually not true!

Posted by Skinner on 08-02-2006 07:33 AM:

quote:
Mainly he treated the whole matter as a law enforcement issue.

He had to treat it as a law enforcement issue. He had to because US law said he did. Not everyone that was killed and injured, were military personal. I don't think you realize how many civilians were on the USS Cole. Do some research.

__________________
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731-780-4407
Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

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