UKC Forums - Why and What?

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-- Why and What? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928336797)

Posted by zshepherd on 10-12-2013 03:09 AM:

I have a heavy uchtman breed female that is a super nice coon dog,mouth to burn, hunts plenty, and probably 70% accurate. Her major whole is she can't stand pressure, she will pull in any situation, by herself you could not ask for a better dog but in a cast she makes a fool out of me and her half the time. I just about had her finished ntch and she got in a steel trap and can't go for over an hour anymore. I raised a litter of pups out of her and a dog out of pounder and a rc and jenny female and they turned out super independent but are still mouthed 80% of the time. I'd love to breed her to something good that is putting what I need in his pups. I have a half brother uchtman male that has four wins towards grand that is 95% accurate and be by himself most of the time but is chop all the way but loud

Posted by southernthunder on 10-12-2013 03:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by zshepherd
I have a heavy uchtman breed female that is a super nice coon dog,mouth to burn, hunts plenty, and probably 70% accurate. Her major whole is she can't stand pressure, she will pull in any situation, by herself you could not ask for a better dog but in a cast she makes a fool out of me and her half the time. I just about had her fintished ntch and she got in a steel trap and can't go for over an hour anymore. I raised a litter of pups out of her and a dog out of pounder and a rc and jenny female and they turned out super independent but are still mouthed 80% of the time. I'd love to breed her to something good that is putting what I need in his pups. I have a half brother uchtman male that has four wins towards grand that is 95% accurate and be by himself most of the time but is chop all the way but loud

you should come hunt with some of our young dogs and see if they are as independent as you like. its hard to get them to tree together. they are split treed most of the time and stay till you get them.

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Posted by zshepherd on 10-12-2013 03:33 AM:

How are they bred! Not that it matters to me j/w

Posted by southernthunder on 10-12-2013 03:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by zshepherd
How are they bred! Not that it matters to me j/w

..................................GRNITECH PR DOUBLE SPRINGS ECHO
......................GRNITECH GRCH PR RAZOR RIDGE POP A TOP
..................................PR CANEY CREEK'S BLUE AMY
...........GRCH PR RAZOR RIDGE POP A TOP AGAIN
..................................GRNITECH PR DOUBLE SPRINGS ECHO
......................PR HAMLIN'S BLUE BONNIE
..................................PR PINE SPRNGS FANNIE II
GRCH GRNITECH PR HAMLINS DAVIE CROCKET HTX
..................................CH GRNITECH PR SLIFE'S BLUE RAMBO
......................GRNITECH GRCH PR SMILEY'S BLUE RAMBO II
..................................CH GRNITECH PR SMILEY'S MISTI BLUE
...........PR RAMBO'S FLAG (JANE)
..................................CH NITECH PR PORTER'S SPIDERMAN.
......................PR HIGH FANCY
..................................PR SMITH'S BLUE CRICKET

Posted by Pine Log Kennel on 10-14-2013 02:03 AM:

Eddie, what side of the pedigree do you feel the independence comes from.

Posted by southernthunder on 10-14-2013 02:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pine Log Kennel
Eddie, what side of the pedigree do you feel the independence comes from.

'

I think both sides, but would give the greatest edge to the bottom side because the dam "Jane" was a loner all the time. his top side is doubled up on Echo which everyone knows that has one line breed that they are very independent loners.

just curious as to why you are asking?

Posted by Pine Log Kennel on 10-14-2013 01:13 PM:

The Echo dogs are said to be independent, I havent seen enough of them in the woods to form an honest opinion, what I did see was not what I would call completely independent, but didnt care to split with a coon. I have seen several rambo dogs that were the dead loner independent type, thats what I prefer, thats why I ask.

Posted by Tom Jones on 10-14-2013 04:28 PM:

pine log

How you been, good I hope. I think it depends on the ones you hunt with, I have hunter lots of Rambo dogs and never seen any that where loners or made a habit of getting alone. Heard of some just never seen it. I have a echo pup right now that is also doubled up on Rambo also that will be 1/4 mile the opposite direction from dogs that are tracking or treeing. I always thought the echo dogs where the most independent blue dogs you could get. Jmo

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Posted by Pine Log Kennel on 10-14-2013 06:03 PM:

Been good Tom, Im just trying to track down some dogs or crosses that some of these dead loner types have been known to come out of, I may make a cross in the next year or so , and just trying to feel around and see what is out there, thanks, Pete

Posted by Tom Jones on 10-14-2013 06:09 PM:

loner

Joe Allen told me the rambos flag (jane) female that eddie was talking about was that way and a very hard hunter to boot. he has a male dog off bullet 2 that is a littermate to the woodrow dog on here, Joe said he operates like that also. what about some of the old utchman ranger dogs, i hunted with a few of them that where always alone unless something was catching a ride through the woods

__________________
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natural gas "
405-471-7372

Posted by ov_blues on 10-14-2013 06:38 PM:

If Rambo II's grandsire had have been Ranger IV instead of Platner's Bl. Mash, do you think as many people would still say Rambo bred? Or would they say Uchtman bred even though Rambo II had other bloodlines in him?

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by Tom Jones on 10-14-2013 07:38 PM:

dont matter

probably wouldnt matter since rambo II reproduced so well.

__________________
" an old wood burnin stove with no
natural gas "
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Posted by Jm265 on 10-14-2013 07:57 PM:

I THINK WHEN MOST FOLK SAY THERE HOUND IS RAMBO BRED THEY ARE REFERING TO RAMBOII

Posted by Mad-Dog on 10-31-2013 04:14 PM:

If Dual Grand Salt Fork So Blue Scooter(uchtman bred) would have had the Uchtman name on the papers I believe he would have bred a lot more females after making it to the final 4 at the UKC World Hunt in 1998............Tim

Posted by Rac_sacker on 11-03-2013 10:53 PM:

outside lookin in

Im new to the blue dog world but the continuation of "family" breeding is precisely what's holding us back. All your producing is what you already have. Rat Attack produced tree dogs out of every bitch he ever covered..they may not leave your feet but buddy they ll grab the bark..Harry dogs might never tree but you d have to go get em and so on and so forth. That's why the rat x Harry crosses were arguably the best hound crosses made. They both offered the straights the other lacked..

The same groundwork is here waiting but is being ignored, overlooked, or both! If your happy hunting Ole Blue #173 7/8 then keep on keeping on, but for those of us tht wanna take these dogs where they belong, we need to get our heads together and make it happen! We need:
GET GONE
DRIVE A TRACK
LOUD
TIRELESS
ALONE
HERES THE GOODS
NO REVERSE

Im a hard hunter. I average 6 nites a week with 3 of those being all biters. Im hunting a 14 month old blue female for a Guy tht is a fireball first drop..second drop she s nice..third she's average..and fourth she s done..Average mouth average treedog smoke a track. My partner has one 2 months older tht slings rocks every drop..super loud blow down tree dog but will Waller a track for hours..one s jet..ones Utchman/ running bullet.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 11-07-2013 08:10 AM:

You Rac_sacker are exactly right ! My old dog is Harry bred , female I bred for pups myself is Rat bred ...Mafia has the accuracy ,brains ,heart & drive , but not a hard tree dog , plenty loud & carries good , but not over powering throws quick starting pups consistantly. Bred them & got it all ! I'm not on here to bash the blue dog breedI've owned some good blue dogs in the past & grew up hunting w/ the Mailes brothers.
I had read on an earlier post about genes ...for those of you that may want to improve on something missing in female in your next litter of pups , remember that dogs are just like humans & have dominate & recessive traits on their DNA code. When you continue line breeding for certain dominate traits you never improve on the bad . Just like if you took 2 humans w/brown hair & eyes your probably gonna get brown hair & eyes in your children these are the dominate traits. You need to step outside the box If you have a dog w/ accuracy & mouth but lacks in the speed dept- you breed to something that has it . And also go look @ some of the scores @ the $kc world last week ...accuracy & independnce is becoming much more dominate in the walker breed while keeping the speed . And that hunt finals were held the first weekend of Nov. There is nothing wrong with being a die hard for this breed or that but all could use some improvements here & there if you like what you got great...but if you don't breed to fill in what's missing or could be improved & be willing to admit that none of them are perfect.

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Posted by Tom Jones on 11-07-2013 03:36 PM:

where at

not sure where you guys get your info but take a look at the pups for sale and the stud dog adds. It has ALL been done before. find me a ucthman dog that hasnt been crossed with s.r., jet, hammer etc. and vice vs. for every single line. Am I saying there isnt alot of biased folks? Nope, but there isnt a cross on any bloodlines out there that hasnt been made. It has nothing to do with breeding these dogs, except the folks that breed anything cause so n so is on the papers............IT HAS ALL TO DO WITH TAKING THE BEST TO TOWN AND GIVING THEM A CHANCE. There are blue dogs out there that are capable of winning any hunt entered.............or is there?

__________________
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natural gas "
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Posted by Tom Jones on 11-07-2013 03:41 PM:

Re: outside lookin in

[rac-sacker
Im a hard hunter. I average 6 nites a week with 3 of those being all biters. Im hunting a 14 month old blue female for a Guy tht is a fireball first drop..second drop she s nice..third she's average..and fourth she s done..Average mouth average treedog smoke a track. My partner has one 2 months older tht slings rocks every drop..super loud blow down tree dog but will Waller a track for hours..one s jet..ones Utchman/ running bullet. [/B][/QUOTE]

not picking on you just trying to make a point.

are your plans to breed these two individuals togather and get the gyps track speed and first dump abaility, the males mouth and tree power.....................loose the gyps abaility to ''WANT TOO" and the males lack of tracking abaility??? everything is easy on the ole computer espiacially having a top hound

__________________
" an old wood burnin stove with no
natural gas "
405-471-7372

Posted by Rac_sacker on 11-07-2013 06:42 PM:

Re: Re: outside lookin in

[/B][/QUOTE]

not picking on you just trying to make a point.

are your plans to breed these two individuals togather and get the gyps track speed and first dump abaility, the males mouth and tree power.....................loose the gyps abaility to ''WANT TOO" and the males lack of tracking abaility??? everything is easy on the ole computer espiacially having a top hound [/B][/QUOTE]

No. The one im hunting doesn't make the cut for me. If she were mine, she would be in the gully with the rest of the ones that didn't meet my standards. Im sure that there are guys tht would breed her though, she s doubled up on jet 5. That's the problem.always settling for average..
And It must be true, what you say abt the Ole computer..because there's an awful lotta world beaters and hall of fame breeders such as yourself that areexperts. Im no expert, I just know what yall are
lacking and have seen how to improve it. See you at the top!
Have a great day!

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LETS GO RACKIN!

Posted by Tom Jones on 11-07-2013 07:08 PM:

Re: Re: Re: outside lookin in

quote:
Originally posted by Rac_sacker

not picking on you just trying to make a point.

are your plans to breed these two individuals togather and get the gyps track speed and first dump abaility, the males mouth and tree power.....................loose the gyps abaility to ''WANT TOO" and the males lack of tracking abaility??? everything is easy on the ole computer espiacially having a top hound [/B][/QUOTE]

And It must be true, what you say abt the Ole computer..because there's an awful lotta world beaters and hall of fame breeders such as yourself that areexperts. Im no expert, I just know what yall are
[/B][/QUOTE] and you say that bluetickers argue to much? you can check my old post from just a few days ago and see how many litters I have raised, very few and never claimed to be a breeder of HOUNDS, GAMEFOWL that WIN.........I CAN BREED THEM. you have no idea what I am either or what i may or may not hunt..........just saying you aint doing nothing that aint been done

__________________
" an old wood burnin stove with no
natural gas "
405-471-7372

Posted by ov_blues on 11-07-2013 08:04 PM:

I think outcrosses are done at times in the Bluetick breed, but the offspring from that cross are usually line bred back into one of the lines that it came from. Say Uchtman to Jet and then offspring back to either Uchtman or Jet.

__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

Posted by Rac_sacker on 11-07-2013 08:28 PM:

Over that's precisely what takes place.

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Posted by Tom Jones on 11-07-2013 08:43 PM:

yep

I agree and probably 90-95% of the time. walker dogs dont have a problem linebreeding and winning, nor did john the baptist as he was tripled up on the same dog on bottom side.

I have read this message board for 10 years or so and cant count the number of folks that are gonna try something new and win the world in a few years and that is fine but, most the time they have 5 unfinished projects laying round the house too lol. I just buy pups from a cross that looks good and prefer the gyp to be the reproducer..........seem to do better then just choosing something from a promoted "STUD DOG"

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Posted by wakenda creek b on 11-08-2013 07:28 AM:

Ive got a female that's got the go and independents. Her mom is double Rambo bred and her dad goes back to spanky. She is out of the Sandbergs bock and Sheltons Shooting Star cross. In a 2 hour hunt shes gotten by herself in every cast. Sometimes once and theres been a few times shes had 4 splits. She is still a dog and has her bad nights but if I hunt her up real good before a hunt she will do some damage. She has NO stop. She has a locate that will make you slap your mama. The things I would change about her is she is a bit hyper and has thrown some real hyper pups. Her mouth is just average. I think she barked herself out when she was younger before I got her. Her pups usually have well above average mouths. She might not be for everybody but she is what Im basing my future kennel off of.Shes got 3 wins towards grand, ch on bench with 1 win and HTX. Shes been bred to B and Ds blue Crook and Uchtman Scar.

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Carrollton,Mo.64633
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Posted by Rac_sacker on 11-08-2013 02:15 PM:

Brian, it sounds like we likethe same kind of dog..I also applaud you for making crosses on 2 different stud dogs..

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