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-- Should silent dogs be scratched? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=456734)

A balance hound is what I'm looking for first strike and first tree type of dog with the coon in the tree at the end. And thats what UKC is looking for in their judging system.

alot of crying and whining on this thread for sure. just one more reason why the other registry is the place to be. Hunt what you want in those hunts, and can register them that way. If you got a coonhound come over to the other registry and hunt.

Fact is that rules arent enforced because the one holding the scorecard doesnt know them or turns a blind eye. As long as there are hunts this will always go on. The registries have options for you to follow if you feel you have been cheated, so learn those rules and put up or shut up.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by deschmidt27
[B]Perhaps you should try reading the whole thread, so that you can better understand a single post in it. The point being made, was that if you only care about the tree, and not how you got there, and if you only care about winning hunts... because it's those people who are breeding purely for competition and not the sport that we have slick treeing idiots and babblers.

One I was talking about just caring about making trees, and not worried about opening on track, not simply the aspect of treeing coons. And two, if you think you can't win hunts with a slick treeing idiot, you ought to try hunting with several of these GrNtChs being campaigned in the magazine... because I would beg to differ! Leaves offer a lot of forgiveness...

People in this thread seem to think that all these silent track dogs are silent, because they aren't opening on the track, and they're neglecting the fact that many of these silent dogs are silent because they aren't running any track! I've seen more and more dogs just tearing through the woods checking trees... which is a huge fault, and all the more reason to scratch them and not award them for the bad behaviour, simply because they can make a few split trees.

David Schmidt WELL SAID DAVID !!!!!!

By the rules... yes.

In my opinion... NO!

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

lets talk about something else.

If you took 2 dogs, lets call em dog A and dog B. Dog A is real tight or silent, dog B is an open trailer. Turn those 2 dogs loose together. Dog B strikes and continues to open working a track. 2 or 3 minutes later, dog A falls treed out ahead of dog B. Dog B continues to open, working the track right up to the same tree dog A is treed on and also trees on that tree with dog A. The coon is seen. Lets say this is normally how it goes with these 2 dogs. Which is the better coondog?? Dog A without a shadow of a doubt!!

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why is it a fault for a dog to go through the woods checking trees. thats how lay ups are treed. so now treeing layups should be a fault. i would rather a dog fall treed 100 yrds from the truck rather than go 400 yrds before he got things working. a dog should have enough brains to check trees and look for a track. but by all means don't run by a coon. maybe we should teach our dogs to never blow up and sit down under a coon they did not strike and run 800 yrds. i love to see a dog wind a coon and check trees then blow it up.

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quote:

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Originally posted by gfults
If you took 2 dogs, lets call em dog A and dog B. Dog A is real tight or silent, dog B is an open trailer. Turn those 2 dogs loose together. Dog B strikes and continues to open working a track. 2 or 3 minutes later, dog A falls treed out ahead of dog B. Dog B continues to open, working the track right up to the same tree dog A is treed on and also trees on that tree with dog A. The coon is seen. Lets say this is normally how it goes with these 2 dogs. Which is the better coondog?? Dog A without a shadow of a doubt!!

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the dog that shows you the most coons is the best coon dog and most the time its the silent dog if hes a sure nuff coon dog. i would rather say look at that coon instead of strike my dog, like my pappy told me one time if you was after somebody would you run thru the woods ah hollering iam gonna get you or would you sneak up on him lol.

Another thing I wanna point out is this. Just because a dog is silent does not mean he just goes thru the woods checking trees and never runs a track. Ive hunted a silent dog with an open trailing dog a bunch and have noticed by watching the Garmin that when the dogs are moving thru the woods huntin, the distance of the dogs will change 10 to 15 yards or so at a time. But when the open trailer strikes, the distance becomes much greater, like 40 to 50 or even 60 yards at a time including the silent dog. Then when I hunted the silent dog alone, after a few minutes the distance starts getting 40 to 60 yards apart just like when I hunted them together. That makes me feel like thats when the silent dog has struck and is runnin a track.

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quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
I have two dogs of the same "off breed" that UKC registers. The difference that I beg to differ with you on is Dog B has done excactly what you said on two coons in the last four years. Lay up dog B has been ahead ( in the general direction of trail) and treed and had traildog A trail right on past but it might have been 100 or several hundred feet over. Also, Layup B has pulled up treed after Dog A has trailed ten minutes and gone. Summary ; two time I know of in 4 years a dog trailed in to layup dog. About twenty times that I am sure of Dog B had a coon aand was released to join dog A . So, 20 times out of 400 coons is not that big of a %. In fact it is 1/2 of 1 %. I like it good when it happens but it doesnn't happen all that regular with mine . The strange part of this is dog B is just as cold nosed as dog A ( they are 1/2 brothers and 4 and 5 years old. Both will open and open bawl dogs on track. THe way I see it is the layup dog has a gift for winding coons from the dogbox and his brother doesn't show it yet(but he does keep getting better ) even though he is already 4 years old. The only way to know what a dog is doing in my opinion is the see with your own eyes. For a gret example a pecan orchard where you can see 200 yards plum easy and see eyes in a tree about that far. My dog B dog is released out the box with my A dog ( I don't chain them up and siccum like horses out of a gate because it teaches them bad habits like babbling) and absolutely no way reflecting on Bad Habit because he did not do that.) I watch both of mine leave ith their head angled down but not snorting and shuffling around, they leave on a gallop , But I have seen dog A throw his head straight up and wind and not say a word , Now a silent dog would not do that , He would trail on the ground without saying a word. To me that is the diifference in a layup artist and a silent trailer even though a layup dog and a silent trailer may both sniff up a couple of pecans before they are sure. That is my opinion on that. Score 3 strikes on a given night and silent better start to opening up somewhere along the line or be in a pecan grove so he can do that kind of thing , 1,2 ,3 or get scratched because a silent dog and a layup dog are two separate animals. Three tracks in a hunt and a dog has said nothing has done "proved hinself" to be silent and should be scratched in my opinion. Better yet (or at least as good as any measure) is to put the Garmin Collars on them all. With a bark sensor that records every time a dog opens his mouth. Allow no one to watch untillthe units are back at the clubhouse and plugged into the Master computer for all to see and observe. That will put a stop to all the "Pitching In "

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CAN MY SON SHINE THE TREE ???

SHOULD SILENT DOGS BE SCRATCHED ???

IT'S ALL ON THE BACK OF THE SCORECARD.

ANY QUESTIONS ???

-DR.GUMMY


P.S.

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our sport is called coon hunting NOT coon trailing we all want to TREE coons not just trail em it shouldn't matter if they bark on the ground or not they shouldn't be scratched and i would never vote to scratch someone for that its a silly rule

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dogs

what about the automatic strike dogs that open when they get out of your lite then open on nothing

quote:

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Originally posted by Caleb Wilson
our sport is called coon hunting NOT coon trailing we all want to TREE coons not just trail em it shouldn't matter if they bark on the ground or not they shouldn't be scratched and i would never vote to scratch someone for that its a silly rule

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caleb Wilson
i would never vote to scratch someone for that its a silly rule

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>>> so could you a strike when you hear that silent dog open up and call tree shortly after that and it would be hard to prove any different? <<<

>>>>>Most guys that hunt still dogs do this in a hunt and it's very dishonest.<<<<<<

I have a very tight mouthed hound who is consistently 3rd or 4th strike, will open mouth track on a really hot track, but very silent on cold track or for layup. (So technically, he is NOT a silent dog! But he can sound like one on a slow night, but he gets the meat!)

Often a first or split tree dog, so he wins consistently too!

Usually the OPPOSITE is what I have experienced in the woods, if he is called struck and if I don't tree him shortly after, many guys don't complain so much that he is silent, they try to say he has MOVED. (Trying to get him minused from his tree points)

He will hard, hard chop on the tree by moving around the tree (he is usually by himself 99% of time) and sometimes standing flat, sometimes up on the wood and his voice sounds a mile closer when he is up and voice facing you, and sounds lots further away when he is down.

Sometimes I HAVE to wait to tree him, so I don't get attempted minus when they try to say he has 'moved.'

It is not cheating, it is calling my dog to the best of his style of treeing and not incurring a minus by folks who routinely don't seem to be able to tell he is actually stationary.

Also been in lots of hunts where a dog will be chopping clearly stationary for 5 minutes before a handler calls it treed and if you ask the handler he will swear his dog is still tracking. Yeh, right!

I also hunt in heavily populated areas with small stands of woods, so I prefer my tighter mouthed hound as not as much noise all the time and less complaints from neighbors!

But I love listening to the open track hounds, it is part of my enjoyment of both pleasure hunt and comp hunts.

The rules are based on what a hound should do when trailing and treeing game. These same hounds are used for bear, deer, fox, and hogs. Seems to me coonhunters are the only ones who don't want to hear a dog open on the ground. I myself like to hear the race and the tree. I like to hear a dog work a track and be able to tell how cold or hot the track is. If people would train for coondogs and not comp dogs you would see honest strike dogs, dogs that were not jealous, and treeing 120 bpm would not be a selling point ( you don't get any more points for a hard tree dog ). I think rules should stay the same ( and be enforced ) and not be changed to fit the standard of the dog, the dog should fit the standard of the rules. If you don't want to hunt by these standards you can always hunt another KC. The comment has been made on here that other KC's are this way and that way and that is why they like their rules better. That is fine. I like certain rules in some better then others but the simple fact of the matter is this, if the dog is an honest strike dog, not ill, and accurate you can win in any of them with the same dog. It all boils down to meeting a standard which the rules were designed around.

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Brian Teague 252-649-3050

The rule

Is not requiring the judge to deem that your dog is silent or not 7 days a week, but instead that the night they are carrying the card that dog is continuously silent on trail. They say they have to open on track in the hunts.

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I cannot believe that so many people would complain about a guy and his dog voluntarily taking 25 strike on every drop. It seems to me that some of you don't like getting beat by a tight mouth/ quiet dog that trees one or two extra coons.

what if the first place he smells the track is at the bottom of the tree? lol

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Silent

Rules. It's not about what you say or think, It's about what can you get by with. At the top of every UKC scorecard I have ever looked at it says " Honor Rules" So If you go to a hunt and enter a silent Dog, you are trying to bend the Rules. By the way, the Breed Rep's. make up the rules. In the beginning open trailing was a desired trait, and It still is for Me. If you like silent dogs, fine, just don't expect the rules to be changed or bended for you.

Re: Silent

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry Franklin
Rules. It's not about what you say or think, It's about what can you get by with. At the top of every UKC scorecard I have ever looked at it says " Honor Rules" So If you go to a hunt and enter a silent Dog, you are trying to bend the Rules. By the way, the Breed Rep's. make up the rules. In the beginning open trailing was a desired trait, and It still is for Me. If you like silent dogs, fine, just don't expect the rules to be changed or bended for you.

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so now they cant even chop on track

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