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-- Honor Rules... (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928519671)

Honor Rules...

In a forum filled with Complaints of cheating and dishonesty it amazes me how many people will argue to keep these so called “Honor Rules”.
I’m going to touch on 2 of these rules in particular in this post #1 Scratching or minusing for Off game without visually seeing it.
#2 scratched for dog fight without seeing it.
The first one. Scratching or minusing a dog for off game without visually seeing it. Right now you can be scratched for having a top track dog traveling at a way higher than average speed on a coon track or for going to slow on a coon track and being accused of cold trailing a coyote or for even smelling like a skunk even. Here’s the deal UKC is getting bigger and better and they are giving away big chunks of money now. A lot of you die hard UKC guys are right when you say that money makes ppl do crazy things. Do you realize how easy it truly is to scratch someone for running off game? At any time the judge can say your scratched and it takes a MAJORITY to over turn it. If the vote is 2-2 your done catch your dog and go home. I promise you guys this the type of shrewd handlers that you will see at the Zone hunts this year are going to use EVERY RULE TO THERE ADVANTAGE. Why make it so easy to eliminate competition? I’m gonna throw this out there for and example A boy in Indiana has a dog that averages between 15 and 21 mph on the garmin every single time you turn him loose and guy in Missouri has one that’s between 14 and 19 mph every single time he turns him loose. You’d think they were running deer every time they struck a coon. Do those sound like the type of dogs you want to try and beat? Absolutely not so you scratch them.
#2 scratched for fighting without seeing it. This one here blows my mind as well. In a 4 dog cast ANYTIME 2 dogs get treed together you can scratch them this too takes a majority to overturn you think at the Zones that these guys will truly care whether or not they are fighting? The answer is no but now they have a 2 dog cast. Not only that say you really did draw a rough dog he’s in there killing another dog and you scratch them both. Is that fair? Or say there is something crazy happening at the tree and it sounds like a dog fight but when you get there that wasn’t the case at all. Can you take a scratch back after it’s been issued?
I was at a $KC hunt in Laplata Mo a few years ago and Shack got treed another dog backed him at about the 4 minute mark for 25 it sounded like WW3 had broken loose in there. Had it been your Local $15 dollar UKC hunt they would have scratched us from 700 yards away. Instead we ran in there with me and the other handler knowing we were going home. They were treed in a fence row on a tree that had a Hotwire peg drove in it. When Shack was by himself he was on the back side when the other dog came in they were hitting that wire and screaming.
Me being honest I would never do it but I promise you I’m a good enough handler that I could easily Scratch my way through the Zones to get to the world hunt and I guarantee you that someone does.

__________________
GRNITE CH PKC CH CHKC CROSSBREED WORLD CHAMPION 2018 UKC WORLD HUNT 5th place Finisher MAFIA’S FANG SLINGING DEMON
Be Phenomenal or Be Forgotten

Dalton Cummings
918-533-6545

Honor rules

A man must be a man of honor for honor rules to work. Men of honor are getting harder and harder to find these days.

__________________
If It Climbs, It Ain't Trash

Re: Honor rules

quote:

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Originally posted by Al Medcalf
A man must be a man of honor for honor rules to work. Men of honor are getting harder and harder to find these days.

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Re: Re: Honor rules

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Originally posted by honalieh
Agree 100%. If PEOPLE act honorably, we don't really have problems or issues. And, if PEOPLE don't act honorably, rules and/or rule changes will never fix that issue.

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

.

I would like to say I enjoy reading what all of Team Mafia has to say about CoonHunting, Dogs and the Rules.
Why? Because they are involved in the sport at a level that wants to produce the best dogs and also maintain a fair playing field for everyone.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I would like to say I enjoy reading what all of Team Mafia has to say about CoonHunting, Dogs and the Rules.
Why? Because they are involved in the sport at a level that wants to produce the best dogs and also maintain a fair playing field for everyone.

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Best part of that novel “me being honest id never do it but...”

Dalton and the redneck mafia I agree with most of what your saying.
I don't agree with the statement about the 2 dogs fighting stuff. The example Dalton gave yes neither dog needed scratched.
But the example of the truly mean dog, yes preparation to go home disappointed for both dogs should be part of the ukc hunts. Not fair I know. I grew up in a big family on a farm with tons of work and no silver spoon. Didn't take me long to realize all isn't going to be fair. Just because it's not fair doesn't mean it's not for the betterment of the sport.

How many times have you been scratched or minused for off game?

If a dog is quilled from it's lips to it's tonsils I don't need to see the porky to know what happened.

__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
How many times have you been scratched or minused for off game?

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Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
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LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
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Men of honor

That whole dang family is some of the most honorable there is around.

Post

I have to agree with Dalton, there are those who exercise any and all power they may have to scratch a solid contender. I Hate an ill dog, but I think the current rules are way to vague and are misused, regarding scratching a dog and running off game. If you do not see these infractions, how can you scratch beyond a doubt. Clarity should be the deciding factor, seeing is believing. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

The better a dog you got the less rules you have to know. You get majority voted down here we call it getting brouther in lawed. Ain’t nothing you can do but go to the next hunt.



Tar

Tar

That is the way it should be, but we both know that it's not always that way. Tweak the rules and make the hunts about the DOGS not about a slick handler/s. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Tar

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
That is the way it should be, but we both know that it's not always that way. Tweak the rules and make the hunts about the DOGS not about a slick handler/s. Dave

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Tar

Let us hope that these RULES will pass, I really believe it would be a major step forward for UKC and our future hunts. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
The better a dog you got the less rules you have to know. You get majority voted down here we call it getting brouther in lawed. Ain’t nothing you can do but go to the next hunt.



Tar

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Re: Re: Honor rules

quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
Agree 100%. If PEOPLE act honorably, we don't really have problems or issues. And, if PEOPLE don't act honorably, rules and/or rule changes will never fix that issue.

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__________________
Donald Bergeron

quote:

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Originally posted by T Felderman
How many times have you been scratched or minused for off game?

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__________________
Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

The bigger picture...

What Dalton is getting at something myself, Dalton, Cheyenne, and Jennifer along with numerous other people have sat and discussed for hours. When you bring money into the picture you bring a whole different kind of people. For the most part it appears to me that people that go to the bigger UKC hunts and support them 100% tend to claim them as their turf and rarely step over in the $KC's. Not too many people travel back and forth from different KC's. We on the other hand may hunt a PKC DH tonight and a UKC DH tomorrow night. When you drag these individuals over to hunt for money it is going to get nasty. "Honor Rules" has been the way its went for UKC members for years. Well Gray area and knowing black and white is where it's been for $KC members. Hunting both sides I know exactly how it goes. As a kennel club those rule loopholes can and will be used against someone if not closed up guaranteed. Our own local club had several come to our RQE and participate and get qualified that literally hasn't hunted in UKC in years. Watch out because it's coming!

__________________
It's all about preventative judging and situational handling that keeps you out of trouble.
Owner of TIER 1 CUSTOM CALLS
POWERED BY PURINA

Team Mafia
2022 UKC World Champion
2019-2022 UKC World Qualifier
2019 Ok Prohunt Semi-finalist
2019 Spring SS Top 20
20,21, and 23 OK State PKC Champion
2020 Spring SS Top 7
2019-2023 PKC National Qualifier
2020-2023 TOC Qualifier
2020 UKC Top 100
2022 UKC Top 100
2023 JOY Super Hunt Champion
2022 UKC WORLDCH PKC PCH CH GRNTCH3 "Get Gone Jenna"
DOB- 9/30/2017

Rules

Why would anyone not want these loopholes eliminated? Everyone would be playing with the same rules and it just makes sense to eliminate things that offer an edge to another handler. Make these hunts all about the dogs and not about the slickest handler. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Rules

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Why would anyone not want these loopholes eliminated? Everyone would be playing with the same rules and it just makes sense to eliminate things that offer an edge to another handler. Make these hunts all about the dogs and not about the slickest handler. Dave

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER, 2025 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Re: Rules

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Why would anyone not want these loopholes eliminated? . Dave

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Re: Re: Rules

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Because most of the time when you eliminate one loophole you create another. A dishonest handler is going to find a way to use any rule to his advantage. Get rid of the dishonest handlers and you don't have to worry about the rules.

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