UKC Forums - We are going in the wrong direction!

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 04-03-2017 01:17 PM:

We are going in the wrong direction!

CONTROL is maybe the key word here. People don't like the word CONTROL and people don't like to be CONTROLLED.

Well our sport and our world is a prime reason why it is more important than most realize.

There are several hunts around the country that the people overseeing them are determined to put on and have a good hunt. They take control of the situation and assign good judges, assign good guides and then make sure things run smooth. They make it known that they don't expect any questions, but they will be handled fairly and they don't want any nonsense when the decision is given. Someone has taken control to make something good work.

The people running these hunts need to step it up and take more control of whats going on and deal with the issues and put them to bed so they don't fester and bring down our sport.

Hollywood learned a long time ago that the best way to change people is to keep exposing them to things. Talking about it until it becomes the norm.
Look at the world we live in and the way people dress. The way people act. Maybe the best example is the way people talk. Go to Facebook and every other post about coonhunting is described using the "F" word. People have no respect for themselves anymore and they sure don't respect what they are doing and others.

All these conversations about CHEATING on here are wrong. Because the more you talk about it, it becomes the thing to do. It becomes something that is normal. Things that are WRONG are just that, WRONG. Yes the man that did wrong can discuss things with the good Lord and be forgiven. Doesn't mean I didn't see the black eye that person brought on the sport of coon hunting.
Think about this. There are a lot of aspects to coonhunting. From breeding dogs to selling them to registering them to hunting them. If someone has been caught doing something wrong in one area, they probably have done things wrong in another area of the game. It is the unlucky crook that gets caught his first time doing wrong.

So keep talking about cheating and how everyone does it. Talk about all the ways you cheated someone else out of a cast win. Make it sound OK to the young men and women and discuss cheating until it sounds like the thing to do. As long as you don't get caught. Take that vocabulary that you got on the street corner and tell everyone how great things are using 4 letter words to describe the situation.
The world has changed and coon hunting is following it right down the path of no return. Take CONTROL of your actions and if your involved with a coon hunt. Take CONTROL of it and make sure it is run right and that everyone walks away feeling they were treated fairly.

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Posted by yadkintar on 04-03-2017 01:39 PM:

Bruce I love you man and respect you and you are my favorite debater. Buuuuut those threads that me , Elvis , Dave , and rob commented on we're far from bragging about being a cheater they were honest admissions that all of us have done this either on a small scale or a large scale if you say you haven't then you are fibbing just like striking a dog on the babble that's cheating ect , ect if you noticed it's been nothing but crickets on those threads the same people that get on hear and throw people under the bus have done the same things but not got caught it's not good for the sport yes I robert Hitt when I was younger have cheated yes I have got on here and bashed others for getting caught at it but I run what hunts I am at by the book and if I am hunting in a hunt it will be all the dog with no help from me. Tell me the truth Bruce if you are hunting in a $$$ hunt and you strike you dog off the snap and you win a cast without seeing a coon I know you are going by the rules but don't it bother you a little bit it did me !!

God changes everything Bruce even old tar.

Posted by msinc on 04-03-2017 02:09 PM:

Re: We are going in the wrong direction!

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
.......Hollywood learned a long time ago that the best way to change people is to keep exposing them to things. Talking about it until it becomes the norm........
All these conversations about CHEATING on here are wrong. Because the more you talk about it, it becomes the thing to do. It becomes something that is normal. Things that are WRONG are just that, WRONG.

So keep talking about cheating and how everyone does it. Talk about all the ways you cheated someone else out of a cast win. Make it sound OK to the young men and women and discuss cheating until it sounds like the thing to do. As long as you don't get caught........

Mr. Conkey, you are dead on about Hollywood....they have successfully choked a lot of nonsense down the throats of mainstream America, especially in the last 20 years.....think about what we watch on TV these days that would seriously offend our grandparents!!!!
I never get on here and talk seriously about cheating in anything other than a bad light. No one that cheats, not even a little bit, is a hero in my eyes. No one that "got over" is looked at or written about as if it's the "thing to do" by me.
I have had several people on here admit that they will and have cheated. I was surprised by that fact because of the carefree way in which they so easily wrote about what they did. Some are even in business and sell things to others...I will never deal with those people, if they will openly brag about cheating in a nite hunt why would I believe they wont do the same to me in a business deal???? They are one step ahead of the rest of the cheaters...they are, at least, honest about it.
This is why we hear time and time again, some potential new hunter "wont put his dog in a nite hunt because of all the cheating that goes on"....I don't see it as all that bad and certainly not what it is written up like on here, but as you say, a little can go a long ways.
That said, I believe most people have intelligence enough to decipher whether or not we are writing things in jest or being serious. Things written in jest about cheating can be a positive thing...think of the other ways new handlers have to learn about some of the things we have posted regarding cheating in nite hunts recently and it don't seem so terrible after all.

Posted by CHEWBACH on 04-03-2017 02:27 PM:

Re: We are going in the wrong direction!

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
CONTROL is maybe the key word here. People don't like the word CONTROL and people don't like to be CONTROLLED.

Well our sport and our world is a prime reason why it is more important than most realize.

There are several hunts around the country that the people overseeing them are determined to put on and have a good hunt. They take control of the situation and assign good judges, assign good guides and then make sure things run smooth. They make it known that they don't expect any questions, but they will be handled fairly and they don't want any nonsense when the decision is given. Someone has taken control to make something good work.

The people running these hunts need to step it up and take more control of whats going on and deal with the issues and put them to bed so they don't fester and bring down our sport.

Hollywood learned a long time ago that the best way to change people is to keep exposing them to things. Talking about it until it becomes the norm.
Look at the world we live in and the way people dress. The way people act. Maybe the best example is the way people talk. Go to Facebook and every other post about coonhunting is described using the "F" word. People have no respect for themselves anymore and they sure don't respect what they are doing and others.

All these conversations about CHEATING on here are wrong. Because the more you talk about it, it becomes the thing to do. It becomes something that is normal. Things that are WRONG are just that, WRONG. Yes the man that did wrong can discuss things with the good Lord and be forgiven. Doesn't mean I didn't see the black eye that person brought on the sport of coon hunting.
Think about this. There are a lot of aspects to coonhunting. From breeding dogs to selling them to registering them to hunting them. If someone has been caught doing something wrong in one area, they probably have done things wrong in another area of the game. It is the unlucky crook that gets caught his first time doing wrong.

So keep talking about cheating and how everyone does it. Talk about all the ways you cheated someone else out of a cast win. Make it sound OK to the young men and women and discuss cheating until it sounds like the thing to do. As long as you don't get caught. Take that vocabulary that you got on the street corner and tell everyone how great things are using 4 letter words to describe the situation.
The world has changed and coon hunting is following it right down the path of no return. Take CONTROL of your actions and if your involved with a coon hunt. Take CONTROL of it and make sure it is run right and that everyone walks away feeling they were treated fairly.

Good post and to the point Bruce!!!

__________________
C.JONES

Posted by Preacher Tom on 04-03-2017 02:36 PM:

Bruce, I know that the post were meant to have some fun. But you are right on. I agree 100%.

__________________
Tom Wood

Posted by pttm08 on 04-03-2017 02:58 PM:

I like seeing these posts on here. We have come to a society to believe what we see. The media and Hollyweird have made any type of lifestyle acceptable. It transfers into all of us if we allow it. This post is spot on however how do we fix it?
From the past several hunts I have been in I am convinced that most people hunting in the hunts just enter and try to learn the rules from that. As I have heard they come to get $20.00 lessons every week. I have heard the argument 1000 times you should know the rules when you come and I agree. However from a person who never owned a registered dog till 8 years ago and never been in a hunt these darn rule books are confusing. If this happens then it is scored this way or if that happens it is scored this way when to me it should be simple. I treed my dog to the left. We walk that way if they shut up and leave or not where it was when I treed then I take minus.
When as judges of a cast are we going to stand up and stop the flat out trying to cheat and make sure they are followed to the best of our abilities. When as cast members are we going to realize my dog screws up just like me or maybe even I should not have treed quite yet but got caught up in the moment and made a bad call. It has to start with the ones in charge at the hunts as well as the ones handling the cards. The behavior has been accepted that a lot of places it is the norm. We have to change it so that our kids and grandkids can enjoy what we have.

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 04-03-2017 03:25 PM:

Your actions in the hunts come back to either make life more enjoyable or to make it something you wish you could change.

Let me say that two of my best coon hunting friends were competitors before we became friends. They were teenagers then and still are young men, compared to me. How I handled myself towards them while hunting and the values I tried to share with them, I believe went a long ways to building trust and the Friendships we have today. Folks you can slice it anyway you want to, but after God and Family your Friends are very important. Your actions at the hunts are very important and stay with you a lifetime.

Tar, it is not about how great thou are. It is about respect for others and together building something great.

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Posted by joey on 04-03-2017 03:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Bruce I love you man and respect you and you are my favorite debater. Buuuuut those threads that me , Elvis , Dave , and rob commented on we're far from bragging about being a cheater they were honest admissions that all of us have done this either on a small scale or a large scale if you say you haven't then you are fibbing just like striking a dog on the babble that's cheating ect , ect

Tar you are right about a lot of people but not everyone and lets define this right. Breaking a rule because you were wrong about what was happening and doing it on purpose to win is not even remotely close to the same thing. Some people change but most do not. One of the biggest in your face aint nothing you can do about it screwings I ever took in my life was from a guy that everyone knew was a cheat. He was gone for a while and come back professing about how he had changed, was in church and now a child of god.

One of the guys that has been bragged about on here as a strait up guy that has changed drugged my dog at the lonestar hunt a few years ago. I drew out with him and then seen him around my dog box. I had beat him the night before. I went to get my dog out and she could not stay awake. By the time I got her home she was ready to go. This was after he had supposedly changed his ways. So you will have to forgive me if I'm a little cynical about people that have "changed".

What Bruce has said is fact, the more you joke about something and normalize it the more it becomes acceptable. I sat by the pool at a major hunt a few years ago and could hear a group of young guys that were all paid handlers basically bragging about different ways they had cheated people and it was all a big joke to them.

I think you have made two assumptions that are both wrong. The first one is that because you have cheated that means everyone has and the second one is because you were able to change your ways all these other guys have also. Keep one thing in mind when you were doing those things you were a paid handler. Now you are just trying to have a good time. A lot of these other guys are still paid handlers.

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Posted by wjoey on 04-03-2017 03:45 PM:

I have had my share of $20 $30 $50 $250 $300 lessons , Bruce to come on here and start accusing a few for fessing up what they did a long time ago is wrong! The Bible tells us to forgive ,it also tells us that he is without sin to cast the first stone, it also says for ALL men have sinned and come short of the glory of God myself included , It also tells us of a judgement day witch is probably coming quicker than we would like ,I agree that a lot of what people think is ok now is wrong , Bruce typing xxxx or f word or 4 letter word is the same as saying it because that's what your mind is thinking , I have always considered you a friend and I'm not changing that now, But I agree and disagree with you on a lot of things and usually keep my mouth shut . But some of the people you are downing are my friends too and I will stick up for them just like I would you as we are all brothers in Christ. do I make mistakes , do I cuss , yes and probably a lot more than I should but do I know where I will be come judgement day yes I do. Its ok for people to fess up to what they did maybe some of the young hunters will read it and say you know what I better look in that hole myself , or I better carry a watch too, I have been taught that some good can come from anything we may not understand it but it's true , do I endorse cheating No but what has happened is over and done , I have hunted back then and now too and the cheating or at least the knowledge of the rules now is worse than ever , have a great day and I hope your feeling better.

And too you Joey Yes there are paid handlers today and MOST are worse than anyone I ever drew Back in the 70S 80s 90s .

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Posted by yadkintar on 04-03-2017 03:52 PM:

Joey for me that was 30 yrs ago yes I have drawn the worst of the worst and a lot of times it amounted to was just not letting them run over you I changed a long time before I started going to church it was because of a certain dog he has been dead over 25 yrs now his offspring were so dominate you did not have to pull strings to win ole tar right now would not steal a bean off your plate if I was starving to death and if I knew you needed it I would give you mine Elvis and me started these threads not to be cute or brag just to show nobody is innocent if you don't believe it hit some of thems consience look how quiet it got lol. But yes there are people in the sport I do not trust or care to be around but I don't talk about them on here those things always take care of themselves.

Posted by CHEWBACH on 04-03-2017 03:57 PM:

lol

Joey you feel better now!!!

__________________
C.JONES

Posted by yadkintar on 04-03-2017 04:10 PM:

I did that was uncalled for I appoligize.

Posted by shadinc on 04-03-2017 04:11 PM:

When I read Bruce's post, I didn't take it that he was saying that the people who commented were terrible people. We all make mistakes. I thought he saying the more you make these things sound like a joke, the more they will seem not so bad. Young people are very impressionable. 'Wow, if a guy that placed in the world hunt can do this, why can't I?"

Posted by wjoey on 04-03-2017 04:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
When I read Bruce's post, I didn't take it that he was saying that the people who commented were terrible people. We all make mistakes. I thought he saying the more you make these things sound like a joke, the more they will seem not so bad. Young people are very impressionable. 'Wow, if a guy that placed in the world hunt can do this, why can't I?"

Maybe he should replace his post with your reply it makes much more sense .

So know what direction are we going arguing on here about this delete this thread Bruce and start over in a different direction before the kidos get home

Posted by Cory Estes on 04-03-2017 04:34 PM:

I do not care who you are, where you are, what the circumstances, or the hunt you are in. If a dog trees a coon, it deserves the points. If you try to cheat someone out of that then your no better than the dirt they stand on. If you see someone else's coon, speak up. "Nice job here he is boys", it'll benefit you one day. That stuff travels by word of mouth. look at all this cheating stuff. Spreads like wildfire. Esp all you pot stirring guys that like to fire people up. That $75 cast win aint worth screwing someone over and loosing some buddies, there are more of them.....get out an earn a win fair and square. Dont be a dirtbag cheater.

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Posted by Jgarrett on 04-03-2017 04:38 PM:

Anyone that has ran the hunts any length of time has been exposed to someone that was trying to cheat or bend the rules. You remember those folks and what they did or tried to pull but I equally remember the honest guys that stepped up and took their minus when they had it coming or stood up for someone that was being shafted. A person gains my respect when they do the right thing.

Posted by Cory Estes on 04-03-2017 04:39 PM:

you said it better than i could have bud ^

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 04-03-2017 04:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
I have had my share of $20 $30 $50 $250 $300 lessons , Bruce to come on here and start accusing a few for fessing up what they did a long time ago is wrong! The Bible tells us to forgive ,it also tells us that he is without sin to cast the first stone, it also says for ALL men have sinned and come short of the glory of God myself included , It also tells us of a judgement day witch is probably coming quicker than we would like ,I agree that a lot of what people think is ok now is wrong , Bruce typing xxxx or f word or 4 letter word is the same as saying it because that's what your mind is thinking , I have always considered you a friend and I'm not changing that now, But I agree and disagree with you on a lot of things and usually keep my mouth shut . But some of the people you are downing are my friends too and I will stick up for them just like I would you as we are all brothers in Christ. do I make mistakes , do I cuss , yes and probably a lot more than I should but do I know where I will be come judgement day yes I do. Its ok for people to fess up to what they did maybe some of the young hunters will read it and say you know what I better look in that hole myself , or I better carry a watch too, I have been taught that some good can come from anything we may not understand it but it's true , do I endorse cheating No but what has happened is over and done , I have hunted back then and now too and the cheating or at least the knowledge of the rules now is worse than ever , have a great day and I hope your feeling better.

And too you Joey Yes there are paid handlers today and MOST are worse than anyone I ever drew Back in the 70S 80s 90s .

Joey & Bruce, I see both your views and you are both right to a degree in my thinking. I think that we shouldn't plant the seeds into learning minds--that just give them some ideas on how to cheat. but on the other hand we should confess our wrong doing, but only to the one we wronged, lets not plant those seeds for everyone to get the idea that old so in so did it at one time and got away with it so I'll guess I'll try it too.
Now what I do see is that a lot of the hunters of today have lost values, there seems to be a lot more cursing and swearing going on today than 20-30 years ago.
I had a friend tell me about a cast that he guided last year,hunted his dog back in the country on dirt road. he wasn't the judge tho. well they made a couple of trees and had to regroup and move to go to another hunting spot as he didn't want to get on land that was off limits to hunt, so time was called.
Now he tells the cast that there is a church youth group having a bond fire up the dirt road and ask the cast to keep it down and watch there language. as they were going to walk up the dirt road by the church group, in other words show some respect. well he being 65 years old was maybe 20 or 30 yards behind the younger fellows walking up the road. and he could hear a couple of these fellow just visiting loudly and a good share of their words were cuse words, even after he asked them to watch what they said. I told him if I'd been judge these fellows would have been done, and he said but he wasn't the judge.
this incident very well could have cost him a place to hunt, and also cost a club a very good guide.
so you see we need to clean up our sport and the values of coon hunters all over

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 04-03-2017 04:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
I hope this post was a joke delete it tar

Whats wrong boys!! it hit a low spot in a lot of your lives!!lmbo

__________________
C.JONES

Posted by Preacher Tom on 04-03-2017 05:43 PM:

If I understand what Bruce said, he is not saying any of us are lily white and the word says "we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". But what he is saying that when we make light of cheating or even just make it seem common it has a tendency to degrade our value systems. It is especially so for young people who are looking for role models. That's really all I have to say about this. Everyone have a blessed day.

__________________
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Posted by Rip on 04-03-2017 08:22 PM:

Bruce, if you read what I posted you would see that I was took the first time and didn't know enough about it to know that I wasn't going to be the one in trouble for what the other guy pulled, and I also posted that it still bothers me today.

I surely wasn't joking about it, just giving an example of how even honest people end up on the wrong end of a violation and why I studied the rules the way I did to make sure it didn't happen again.

I see your point about it giving people ideas, but I was looking at it as a "don't do what I did" or "don't fall for this if it happens to you".

Everybody needs to be warned about the cheaters tactics and how to counter them that's why I put the list on the other thread of things that people TRIED on casts I was on but I DIDN'T let them get away with it.

__________________
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Posted by yadkintar on 04-03-2017 10:50 PM:

Believe me these kids now days can show us old dogs ways to cheat that we never thought of we didn't have the tools to cheat that they got all we could do was try to out smart each other lol.

Posted by sleepy head on 04-03-2017 10:51 PM:

Re: We are going in the wrong direction!

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
CONTROL is maybe the key word here. People don't like the word CONTROL and people don't like to be CONTROLLED.

Well our sport and our world is a prime reason why it is more important than most realize.

There are several hunts around the country that the people overseeing them are determined to put on and have a good hunt. They take control of the situation and assign good judges, assign good guides and then make sure things run smooth. They make it known that they don't expect any questions, but they will be handled fairly and they don't want any nonsense when the decision is given. Someone has taken control to make something good work.

The people running these hunts need to step it up and take more control of whats going on and deal with the issues and put them to bed so they don't fester and bring down our sport.

Hollywood learned a long time ago that the best way to change people is to keep exposing them to things. Talking about it until it becomes the norm.
Look at the world we live in and the way people dress. The way people act. Maybe the best example is the way people talk. Go to Facebook and every other post about coonhunting is described using the "F" word. People have no respect for themselves anymore and they sure don't respect what they are doing and others.

All these conversations about CHEATING on here are wrong. Because the more you talk about it, it becomes the thing to do. It becomes something that is normal. Things that are WRONG are just that, WRONG. Yes the man that did wrong can discuss things with the good Lord and be forgiven. Doesn't mean I didn't see the black eye that person brought on the sport of coon hunting.
Think about this. There are a lot of aspects to coonhunting. From breeding dogs to selling them to registering them to hunting them. If someone has been caught doing something wrong in one area, they probably have done things wrong in another area of the game. It is the unlucky crook that gets caught his first time doing wrong.

So keep talking about cheating and how everyone does it. Talk about all the ways you cheated someone else out of a cast win. Make it sound OK to the young men and women and discuss cheating until it sounds like the thing to do. As long as you don't get caught. Take that vocabulary that you got on the street corner and tell everyone how great things are using 4 letter words to describe the situation.
The world has changed and coon hunting is following it right down the path of no return. Take CONTROL of your actions and if your involved with a coon hunt. Take CONTROL of it and make sure it is run right and that everyone walks away feeling they were treated fairly.

Probably one of the smarter post ive seen on here, good one Bruce

Posted by chaz2012 on 04-03-2017 10:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Believe me these kids now days can show us old dogs ways to cheat that we never thought of we didn't have the tools to cheat that they got all we could do was try to out smart each other lol.

That's right come up here and I will teach you all a thing or two.

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Posted by Ron Moore on 04-04-2017 12:25 AM:

Cheating??

I believe it all starts at home. I was raised in a semi Christian home. My mother drug my butt to church most every Sunday and in between until I got old enough to make my own mind up but my dad only attended church during a wedding or funeral, other than that, I never saw him in a church. He smoked, drank, cussed and chewed tobacco most of his life. He was also a WWII Veteran that respected women, the flag and this great country. If he caught word of me doing anything that wasn't up to par, well I would get the what for! In other words, I was taught respect, morals and values from a very early age. I did my fair share of drinking, smoking, chewing and cussing but I knew not to be a cheat, liar or a thief. I guess my mom had more of an influence on me than I thought but my dad did as well. In short, I was raised in a family where we were taught right from wrong and I believe that isn't going on now days like it used to be. My friends and I used to cuss and carry on but were always respectful when others were around especially women. Nothing upsets me more than to hear folks disrespect other people with foul language. People who do this is drawing attention to themselves for the wrong reasons.

I don't attend the hunts anymore but I had my fair share of them both good and bad. I noticed in the latter years more folks wanting to stretch and bend the rules to their liking. I like to win as much as the next person but some people just can't stand to loose and I believe that's where the cheating comes in. Heck, the tee ball players don't have to loose. It all starts at a young age and the new generation is taught early on that they don't have to loose, they even give trophies to the losers! Someone always has to be the loser but some won't except that, hence the cheating.

There has been some very good comments on this thread but I believe Bruce is on to something here. I respect someone who can disagree without being disagreeable. Have a great day....Ron

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