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Black and Tan Bones

There is a man selling UKC Registered Redbone puppies that are black and tan he says that he put black and tan on the color of the pups on his litter registration. I know UKC took the association out of registration but is this allowed ?

__________________
Rick Pruitt
580-924-0176
Home of:
GRNITECH GRCH PRUITT'S REBEL RED(GRNITECH GRCH PR KEYS OUTLAW RAZOR RED XGRCH CCH TREE RIZIN SOME KINDA WONDERFUL)
GRNITECH PRUITT'S BUCK (NITE CHAMPION PRUITT'S CHIEF X PRUITT'S MISS MOLLY)
NITE CHAMPION PRUITT'S CHIEF ( GRCH GRNITECH T-TOP DARK TIMBER MOOSE CH SOGGYBOTTOM LOCKET DOWN )
NITECH CH 'PR' TREE RIZIN' RAZOR'S RUSH ( RIP )(GRNITECH GRCH' KEY'S OUTLAW RAZOR RED X GRNITECH GRCH'PR' SOGGY BOTTOM T-TOP SHADOW)
NITECH PRUITT'S MAGGIE MAE (GRNITECH THE RED ROCKER X GRNITECH CH PR GUITAR'S GHOST MISSISSIPPI )
PRUITT'S MISS MOLLY ( CH YELLOW RIVER RED COPPER X FICKEN'S LATE NIGHT STAR )

I sure hope not

People start breeding those together if they are truly b&t marked and we might as well throw the breed standards out the window.

__________________
Home of where the Heaviest Fireball bred hounds there are come from.
And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

Home of:
'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady (GrNtCh. Barnyard Horse Harry x GrCh Daisy (was the highest Fireball blooded female alive)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Toes ('PR' Atomic Fireball's Fast Talker (nephew to Bookem Danno) x 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Dixie (NtCh GrCh. 'PR' Dan Langston x 'PR'Harry Lady)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

GrNtCh Fireball's Jackpot Jackie, highest placing Redbone female ever, in the UKC World Hunt . RIP

GrCh. 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Daisy RIP (Was the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded female in the world at the time) (Qualified for the 2010 World Show).

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..


http://atomicfireballkennels.webs.com/
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=341228
Steve Bell

Re: Black and Tan Bones

quote:

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Originally posted by rickp
There is a man selling UKC Registered Redbone puppies that are black and tan he says that he put black and tan on the color of the pups on his litter registration. I know UKC took the association out of registration but is this allowed ?

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__________________
Dr. Allen Hallada (Doc Halladay)

Current:

PKC Ch. Gr.Nt.Ch. Cat Scratch Fever
(Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Moonlight Aftershock x Gr.Nt.Ch. PKC Ch. Moonlight Outlaw Breanna)
2016 Finished to PKC Ch. in one week!

Dual Grand Champion CHKC Ch., PKC Gold Ch. All Grand Outlaw G-Man
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Glissens JJ Jr. x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Billy Jean)
4 Generations of All Grand Nite Champions!
Timber Jack 3X and Timber Chopper over 30X
2019 Southern National Redbone Days Champion
2016 National Grand Nite Champion Redbone
2016 CHKC Redbone Days Champion
2016 PKC Super Stakes Reserve Champion
2016 CHKC Elite Shootout Winner - Texas
CHKC All Time Money Winning Redbone

Bodacious
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Gr.Ch.PKC. Gold Ch.CHKC CH. Outlaw G-Man x Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. CHKC Ch., PKC Gold Ch. Classy Cali)


Past:
Gr.Nt.Ch.Ch. Dawns Timber Jack
1988 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner
1989 UKC World Champion Redbone
1989 Purina Outstanding Redbone Coonhound
#2 Historic Redbone Sire/ Top 20 All Breeds
American Redbone Coonhound Assoc. Hall of Fame

Gr.Nt.Ch. Bussrow Bottom Brandy II
1991 American Redbone Days Champion
1992 AKC World Champion Redbone
1992 ACHA World Champion Redbone
1992 Wisconsin State Champion
1994 US Redbone Days Opposite Sex
Produced 2 Nt. Ch. , 1 Gr.Nt.Ch. out of 2 litters and two Redbone Days Winners

Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch. PKC Gold Ch. Layton's Classy Cali
2012 UKC World Champion Redbone and 7th Place Overall
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 UKC World Champion Redbone Female
2015 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Hunt Winner - Goodsprings, AL
2015 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Series Race - 3rd Place Overall
2016 PKC Blue Ribbon Pro Hunt Winner - New Albany, MS
2016 PKC Texas State Race Winner
2016 PKC Redbone Breed Race Winner
PKC All Time Money Winning Redbone

PKC Ch. Gr.Nt.Ch. Coffman's Smokin Red Buck
2016 UKC World Hunt 5th Place and World Champion Redbone
2016 National Redbone Days Overall Winner

Gr.Nt.Ch. Reinhart's Central Page
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Brandy II)

Gr.Nt.Ch. Too the Maxx
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Jenkins Crying Katie)
1992 National Redbone Days Champion

Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Ambraw River Rock
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack x Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch. Hersh's Huntin Red Kate)
1992 US Redbone Days Opposite Sex

Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle
1986 American Redbone Days All Red Hunt Winner

Nt.Ch. Timber Mace
(Gr.Nt.Ch. Timber Jack X Nt.Ch. Tree Bustin Annabelle)
Mother of Gr.Nt.Ch. Babb's Hazel

Nt. Ch. Timber Shock
(Gr.Nt.Ch.Timber Jack x Gr.Nt.Ch. Outlaw Jessie)

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Squaw Mountain Goldie
(Direct Daughter of Gr.Nt.Ch.Smokey Mountain Brandy)
1990 Autumn Oaks Best of Show Winner
1988 Indiana State Champion

Should be X bred

Pups like this should be X bred. Correct?

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
NTCH PR' Lickcreek Backwoods Lil Red Annie

I thought I would know the answer but another person says that they just registered some black and tan Redbones. UKC

__________________
Rick Pruitt
580-924-0176
Home of:
GRNITECH GRCH PRUITT'S REBEL RED(GRNITECH GRCH PR KEYS OUTLAW RAZOR RED XGRCH CCH TREE RIZIN SOME KINDA WONDERFUL)
GRNITECH PRUITT'S BUCK (NITE CHAMPION PRUITT'S CHIEF X PRUITT'S MISS MOLLY)
NITE CHAMPION PRUITT'S CHIEF ( GRCH GRNITECH T-TOP DARK TIMBER MOOSE CH SOGGYBOTTOM LOCKET DOWN )
NITECH CH 'PR' TREE RIZIN' RAZOR'S RUSH ( RIP )(GRNITECH GRCH' KEY'S OUTLAW RAZOR RED X GRNITECH GRCH'PR' SOGGY BOTTOM T-TOP SHADOW)
NITECH PRUITT'S MAGGIE MAE (GRNITECH THE RED ROCKER X GRNITECH CH PR GUITAR'S GHOST MISSISSIPPI )
PRUITT'S MISS MOLLY ( CH YELLOW RIVER RED COPPER X FICKEN'S LATE NIGHT STAR )

They can UKC register them as crossbreds. Did they get the papers back or just send them in? If they put red under the color UKC will not know that they are black and tan and will register them. But that person could be barred from any further registrations for falsifying papers. If you buy a black and tan colored pup with Redbone puppy papers and send them back in then you could be barred for falsifying papers.

Having a litter of pups of 7 pups and 3 males having these markings I know registered parents can throw them. It is a recessed gene. Doesn't take no rocket scientist to figure it out. Its been mentioned that if we breed for this color we should throw the standard out the window. No, that isn't what we should do. What we should do is quit bowing to the show people and accept the fact that man has no control over nature. I didn't breed two RED redbones hoping to get black & tan colored pups. I bred them in hopes of getting a Redbone that is capable of winning in the timber, probably the same as where our roots are. It may have not been until someone decided to start registering our breed and the show folks were already there our STANDARD was written, not by hound breeders but by show folks. Do we have to allow the hounds that don't meet the standard to be shown? No, but I am sure I don't meet the "standard" of my relations either. The ones that are body builders. However, like me the off colored dogs doesn't stop them from their ancestry either. Man messes up yet again. But THANKS to UKC we can still BREED for what we desire....a COON HOUND that IS a REDbone no matter the color.

I ain't culling a COON HOUND because of some standard set-up by someone or a group that shares not in the same interests as me. Thank you again, UKC for seeing to it that no PURE bred hound is killed and allowing it to be registered to be able to do what it was bred to do....competition hunted.

If they are pure bred then why are they colored up like a black and tan? You can register them as coonhounds, X-bred coonhounds. If you don't care about the Breed or it's standards then what difference does it make? Just register them as X-bred and hunt the hair off of them.

I don't care Richard. I am going to continue to breed what I hunt. What bothers me is where my sport is headed because of the show dogs making the standard. Why not stick true to the standard...the histroy standard of it being able to hunt. How bout any SHOW titles being withheld UNTIL they have an HTX or NT title. As a person who shows Redbones and having CH and GR CH I would give up my titles until they have proven themselves to be coondogs. It is hard for a registry or even an association to serve two different groups. As you are pointig to, saying the B&T colored Redbones are not purebred. The fact is that there really is NO PURE bred dog. However, with ANY off colored dog we can see who the parents are by DNA. By the way, there are many disqualifing faults for show dogs, why is it that off color makes them x-bred.

Come Richard you know dang well that this pops up from time to time with plenty of purebred redbones. In fact the solid red breed standard almost killed the breed years ago. The breed as a whole has made great strides since then. I feel you should be allowed to register them purebred redbone. Coat and color is a very small portion of our breed standard. Has anyone ever bred a Black and Tan purebred redbone to see what color pups it would produce. Or better yet bred two Black and Tan purebred redbones together to see. I know of a few that have kept or sold to people and end up being very very nice hounds.

__________________
LUCKING'S MIDNITE REDS
"A FAMILY OF DUAL PURPOSE HOUNDS THAT CONTINUES ON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION"
Home of:

'Pr' Lucking's Code Red Mountain Dew ( Owned by chad porter and myself) ( Daughter of Desperado) 2 1st place wins ukc nite hunt. 1 best of show with comp , bench show.

'Pr' Lucking's Northern Red Tucker

AND THE PAST:
NT.CH.CH.LUCKING'S KN. LAKE TROOPER
NT.CH.GR.CH.LUCKING'S RAISIN KANE(son of trooper)
NT.CH.CH. LUCKING'S MAD MAGGIE(niece to tornado)
GR.CH.NT.CH.LUCKING'S RED TORNADO(son of trooper)
NT.CH.GR.CH.L&I RED HOT WYLIE(son of tornado)
'pr'lucking's northern red cowgirl (daughter of wylie)(needs just a 1st given to mark barnett)
nt.ch.gr.ch.Lucking's Midnite Desperado (son of cowgirl)(sold to bill tabler)
Nt.Ch.Ch. Desperado's Midnite 3 D(son of Desperado) (given to larry tabler)

Thanks Wade....your words tell of where I am coming from.
I'd hate to see an off colored non-standard bred Redbone becoming the new standard. Hmmmm maybe thats what these COLOR BLIND breeders are skeered of. You know, the ones that desire a PURE COLOR hound. Wonder how many pups they killed at birth because of it yet continued to feed the ones with an over bite or ends up to tall/short for the "standard".

The first post said that you were trying to sell them??? Do you want to hunt them or sell them? I don't understand your problem? As I said, just register them as X-bred and hunt them in comp hunts. You said that you didn't want to show them anyway. And since they are X-bred you can continue to breed them. In the past, they could not be registered at all and therefore not hunted in comp hunts. They changed the registration rules for just such cases. I don't understand your complaint/problem.
I also don't understand why you are blaming anything on "show people". They have nothing to do with it. They could care less what a hunting dog looks like.

I've had 3 litters now that threw the black and tan markings.

No Richard the problem lies in the fact that calling them GRADE dogs because of being off color. To a hunter it doesn't matter what color the dog is. The solution to the problem is to make us all equal in the hound world. IF you come to a hound event then prove it to be a hound and hunt it. You say it isn't the show peoples fault? I prove otherwise, it doesn't matter the color to us that hunt our hounds.

Selling them or hunting them it doesn't matter...calling them anything but pure from 2 registered dogs, DNA'd to prove lineage is the problem.

down the road.

Let's look down the road a little ways.
If you have a B&T colored redbone that is the product of two all red colored registered redbones dogs and you want to raise it and breed it later on. Does this dog have to be registered x bred because of it's color only. This would cause you to loose the chance to have registered redbone puppies out of that dog should the pups come out all red when bred to a registered redbone. The pups are all redbone, aren't they ?????

__________________
Sawblade Kennels/owner Kelly Hyde

Proud Breeder of the following dogs
GrNiteCh Sawblade Fiddle "no.5 historical female
QuadGrCh Yellow River Red Blaze
GrNiteCh Copeland's Red Hot Clyde
GrNiteCh Stone's Midnight Red Jake
NiteCh Brights Choctaw Night Time Sissy
NiteCh Sawblade Red Reckon
NiteCh Brasee Red Penny
NiteCh Nacalus Mandolin
Yellow River Fiddle II " good reproducer"
NiteCh Krasa Sawblade Quikstuf Bone
GrNiteCh Krasa Hair Trigger Hope
GrNiteCH Locked and Loaded Jake
GrNiteCh Moonlight Woody
NiteCh Sawblade Mac Truck " Jake and Hopes' brother"
NiteCh After Dark Spark " brother to Fiddle"
NiteCh Morgan's Boone " sister to Fiddle"
NiteCh High Water June " out of Reckon"
NiteCh Sawblade Timberline Rusty
Sawblade Ribbon,


They are bred with heart and drive included.

From a small kennel with Big results.

Right Kelly and both parents are DNA'd. Richard asked where the B&T came from. Guess if I had my female from lines I have used and bred to his male and produced B&T then it would be his male that was not pure, right? Wrong!!! Its in the genetics and if BOTH his male and my female had a recessive gene, we just doubled up on it. We get the bad traits as well as the good when breeding. These off colored, non-standard meeting dogs COULD very well produce a standard meeting hound that can be the world beater in th timber. When on the other hand, the standard meeting hound that can't tree a coon can produce nothing more then itself....a standard meeting hound or worse yet, one that doesn't meet the standard.

Apparently Bruce Jenner could have been a Redbone if he believed he was one

__________________
Rick Pruitt
580-924-0176
Home of:
GRNITECH GRCH PRUITT'S REBEL RED(GRNITECH GRCH PR KEYS OUTLAW RAZOR RED XGRCH CCH TREE RIZIN SOME KINDA WONDERFUL)
GRNITECH PRUITT'S BUCK (NITE CHAMPION PRUITT'S CHIEF X PRUITT'S MISS MOLLY)
NITE CHAMPION PRUITT'S CHIEF ( GRCH GRNITECH T-TOP DARK TIMBER MOOSE CH SOGGYBOTTOM LOCKET DOWN )
NITECH CH 'PR' TREE RIZIN' RAZOR'S RUSH ( RIP )(GRNITECH GRCH' KEY'S OUTLAW RAZOR RED X GRNITECH GRCH'PR' SOGGY BOTTOM T-TOP SHADOW)
NITECH PRUITT'S MAGGIE MAE (GRNITECH THE RED ROCKER X GRNITECH CH PR GUITAR'S GHOST MISSISSIPPI )
PRUITT'S MISS MOLLY ( CH YELLOW RIVER RED COPPER X FICKEN'S LATE NIGHT STAR )

Black n tan resbones

I think it may open up doors that may not be wanted . I have a accidental English bluetick redbone cross at home and you would swear they are black and tan redbones with very little white . They could pass for redbones but i won't register them they can be grade dog's. I have seen the post where this originated from . The man selling them is out for the money only from what i gather . Pure redbones who really knows guess alot of them have walker in them too somewhere . But the fact remains i am quite certain UKC is unaware of this situation and poses a problem for a customer who doesn't know any better . And if they tried to comp show hunt ect they would be made look a fool and well that's the icing on the cake for me .

George, I had a litter of 7 puppies about 8 months ago. 3 of which was B&T in color. I KNOW for a fact both parents came from Registered Redbones pups. And they too came from Registered parents. Add to the fact that UKC has DNA available why shouldn't these 3 pups been registered as Redbones. Are we not bowing to a standard that represents one particular group...those that show and doing nothing for the other side, that of being what were roots were from...hunting. As Kelly pointed to, producing a standard meeting hound that can tree a coon. I wasn't out to make any money, I gave away the pups with papers in hopes that they will get promoted in the sport and where the standard allows be the best. I know if I kept an off-colored hound I wouldn't show it no more then I would the red one with a bad over-bite or to tall/short. The fact is they are all from the same parents.

Bkack n tan

I'm not downing the throwback color or the fact they are purebred or not .i also have no control over the standard i just try to abide by it best i can while trying to produce what I'm looking for . I really think the original main concern was people buying a dog that was registered a redbone and is a redbone but cant compete as one .how awfully bad that could be for an unsuspecting kid who spent all his money on a dog he can't do as he wanted to with .

Agree George. One thing saving that kid.....a kids bench show. The club can also have an open event with all dogs being shown. I know my off-colored hound as well as my hound that is to tall, the one with the over-bite can't be shown in a registered event but it doesn't make me unproud of the hound I am feeding, I'd show it off and hope that youngster beats me.

Off subject George but another thing that bugs me....us seasoned guys that sells a dog to a youngster that we wouldn't feed ourself and the price of the bullet is to high to shoot it.

We are

going to have a discussion about this at Southern Redbone Days.