UKC Forums - BBOA- still can't believe it!!!

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Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-07-2016 04:27 AM:

BBOA- still can't believe it!!!

How could we have voted against a proposal we turned into UKC?(may have been turned in by other asso. too, I don't know if it was) This is how it all happened BBOA members. Also, this is my feelings about this- DO NOT get on our officers (reps) because they were only turning in our vote from discussion & vote at AO.

At National hunt in Miss., it was asked for members to turn in proposals for BBOA to be voted on, that we as an association would turn into UKC for new rules changes to be voted on this year. I for one wanted to see a countdown rule to be turned in & after a discussion at our general membership meeting it was voted on & passed that we would turn in a countdown proposal- for all that were there you will know this did happen. This is where I feel I screwed up!! I wish I would have asked for a vote of those present as to how they felt about this proposal. I'm guessing only, but would say maybe we had 100 members present- if there were 70 for/ 30 against, again just guessing, but I sure would have liked some #'s to use at AO. it did pass by a wide margin to turn this proposal in though. At this point, I was sure that BBOA was voting for this proposal. You'll understand how this didn't happen in a minute, so please bare with me.

In the mean time, UKC let it be known that after there meeting with the 7 asso. reps, each association would have a chance to meet with there members present to further discuss the rule changes as proposed. In a 'straw vote' at that point, the countdown would have passed on 4 to 3 vote- with us voting FOR.

Moving on to our meeting at 1:30 Sat. afternoon, before ballot was to be turned in by 3 to UKC. Proposal #1 was discussed by about 30 members & it soon became apparent that those present here were not in favor of it- lets just say there were a lot of 'old time' UKC hunters that may not want a lot of change to the rules & I hope my opinion here don't affect our friendships for so many years. After taking a vote of those present, it turned out to be 5 for/ 25 against, so our reps turned in a NO vote on our ballot. I fully understand that from this vote of our members present, it was doing their job by our reps to turn in this vote.

But, this is how I feel I messed up & it won't happen again, if I'm still alive in 3 yrs.. I will still turn in this same proposal then. By using the #'s from Miss. 70 to 30 for a countdown (again just a guess) & #'s from AO added together, our final vote would have been 75 for/ 55 against, so you can see it would have passed, with our final vote being FOR not AGAINST, as in 'straw vote' held.

As you can see, I've had too much time to think about this while driving home from AO & being in field all day, but I feel the fair way would have been to combine #'s from both meetings & not just use the smaller #'s of members making OUR final decision. I hope this may be something to think about in the future. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Dogwhisper on 09-07-2016 04:36 AM:

Wow only 30 members voted out of how many members?
Time to start sending out ballots or passing them out at the hunts to all members not just those in attendance.
"absentee ballots" I'm thinking.

Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-07-2016 05:51 AM:

Dogwhisper

That was about the # present at AO to vote on the rules proposals. That's why I brought up idea of maybe taking a head count @ national hunt & AO to have a broader base as to what more members would want. There isn't time for a ballot because 7 breed asso. turn in proposals by about July 1st & UKC put them together & sends to 14 reps to reveiw so they know what they will be voting on at AO.

2 head counts added together would give us a broader veiw of what our membership would want, at least for the proposals we were sending in.

Please, don't turn this post into an 'arguement site' or it will disappear in a heartbeat. I was just posting about how our (BBOA) vote came about against a proposal that we turned in to change. We'll have 3 more years of these rules & that is fine with me. I'll be at a hunt after they take effect, just like I was before they were voted in or out. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Surveyor on 09-07-2016 01:22 PM:

That's pretty messed up for sure. I'm just curious, of the 25 against, how many of those had a dog entered in the AO nite hunt? I know, being a somewhat active competition hunter, that the idea of a countdown rule on tree gets talked about in a lot of casts and I've observed about 75 percent of the active comp hunters are for it. It just doesn't seem to me that anybody not currently actively comp hunting should be influencing the rules and the majority should always rule.

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Posted by Yard Dog Joker on 09-07-2016 02:19 PM:

Well, maybe the BBOA members realized that ol Blue is so slow getting to the tree they don't want the count down so Ol Blue can still get 75 points at 4 minutes and 59 seconds into the walkers tree!!!!

No I am not a hater I am hunting a blue dog now, just makes me mad that out of the hundreds of hunters that common sense says lets have a tree count down to honor the real dog that trees coons will now suffer for 25 scared members that don't want to loose points.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 09-07-2016 02:26 PM:

No one person or breed rep. should be held accountable, but it's an excellent example of why breed reps should vote on breed related topics and hunt proposals should be voted on by hunters.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 09-07-2016 02:31 PM:

Looking at the numbers I'd say 2 or 3 other reps voted against their association members wishes.

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Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-07-2016 02:33 PM:

Mike

Most everyone at this meeting had a dog entered, but are longtime UKC hunters & want nothing to do with the countdown rule. Some didn't want it because of another time to keep track of, when judging (if I can do it, everyone can do it). Another stated that we already a point difference between 1st & 2nd tree, so they didn't think we needed this rule.

Both are valid points that I can agree with, BUT I'm tired of seeing a dog get 75 pts. when it gets there at 4 min 50 sec.. Or if 2 dogs get treed & after 1 handler makes the 1st tree call for 125, the other handler won't tree until the 5 is almost up just to see if they are going to leave or stay treed. To me, these are 2 good reasons to have a countdown, but since it was defeated, I'll hunt with the rules in place just like before. Take care, Ron

Posted by amblue on 09-07-2016 05:16 PM:

thanks ron for the info and input im with you. what about other items on ballet how did count turn out on those items? butch glass

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Posted by amblue on 09-07-2016 05:16 PM:

thanks ron for the info and input im with you. what about other items on ballet how did count turn out on those items? butch glass

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Posted by Ringo08 on 09-07-2016 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shane_atchison
No one person or breed rep. should be held accountable, but it's an excellent example of why breed reps should vote on breed related topics and hunt proposals should be voted on by hunters.

AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!

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Posted by Surveyor on 09-07-2016 06:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Yard Dog Joker
Well, maybe the BBOA members realized that ol Blue is so slow getting to the tree they don't want the count down so Ol Blue can still get 75 points at 4 minutes and 59 seconds into the walkers tree!!!!

No I am not a hater I am hunting a blue dog now, just makes me mad that out of the hundreds of hunters that common sense says lets have a tree count down to honor the real dog that trees coons will now suffer for 25 scared members that don't want to loose points.

Very true Brad. I was right there at Oaks, but didn't know anything about a BBOA rules meeting or I would have went and voiced my opinion for the count down. I sometimes get agrivated by the attitude of some of the walker guys that act like Bluetick's are a joke, but when our own organization submits a proposal then votes against the proposal we submitted, we sure as heck may as well expect to be the laughing stock of the competition world.

Posted by quail ck kennel on 09-07-2016 06:47 PM:

It's to the point where we are treeing trees not coon. Going to the countdown on tree will just mean breeding dogs to tree more trees than coon. If that's the kind of dog you want to hunt I say hunt the other kc hunts instead of trying to make all rules the same. That way it gives more hunters an option on what rules they want to hunt and the type of dog they want to breed for. Jmo.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 09-07-2016 06:51 PM:

Breed associations do a lot of good things for the sport and their individual breeds, but they have no business voting on rule change proposals.

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Posted by shane_atchison on 09-07-2016 06:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by quail ck kennel
It's to the point where we are treeing trees not coon. Going to the countdown on tree will just mean breeding dogs to tree more trees than coon. If that's the kind of dog you want to hunt I say hunt the other kc hunts instead of trying to make all rules the same. That way it gives more hunters an option on what rules they want to hunt and the type of dog they want to breed for. Jmo.

Why would minusing an extremely slow track dog or one that stopped what it was doing to cover the dog who treed the coon, in any way make anyone breed for a slick treedog? Someone else said that and they couldn't explain it, maybe you can?

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Posted by Yard Dog Joker on 09-07-2016 07:11 PM:

Mike, I seen plenty of blue dog is whack my walker dogs butt! Just a few months ago your gyp made our walker dogs look incompetent at the Shelbyville RQE! I love all coon dogs and yes the walker men beating up the blue dog owner is an inside joke but we all know there is 10-1 Walker dogs to blues competing. What the BBOA practically did was mind boggling. I am an elected UAW board member of Local 933 with 2500 members. Vote me in to be your breed leader and I will show you back bone. I have no clue who the BBOA leaders were but they should have flat had back bone and said we are standing behind what we proposed!!!

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Posted by southernthunder on 09-07-2016 08:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
Very true Brad. I was right there at Oaks, but didn't know anything about a BBOA rules meeting or I would have went and voiced my opinion for the count down. I sometimes get agrivated by the attitude of some of the walker guys that act like Bluetick's are a joke, but when our own organization submits a proposal then votes against the proposal we submitted, we sure as heck may as well expect to be the laughing stock of the competition world.

did they do anything we voted on at the membership meeting at bluetick days?

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 09-07-2016 08:32 PM:

Before you publicly criticize anyone, you may consider that after hearing all the discussions that took place at the meeting there's a great chance that even you might change your mind on certain proposals. Just saying. I'm sure that was the case with several associations after considering some of the points that were brought up.

There's a lot more that HAS TO BE considered other than just voting "personal" opinion. I thought the committee did a fantastic job going over each one and taking notes on comments that were made before the official voting procedure took place. Not that my opinion matters anymore than the next guy's, but for what it's worth, some of the criticism and assumptions are not justified. Not at all.

Posted by southernthunder on 09-07-2016 08:59 PM:

Re: Mike

quote:
Originally posted by Rolin Blues
Most everyone at this meeting had a dog entered, but are longtime UKC hunters & want nothing to do with the countdown rule. Some didn't want it because of another time to keep track of, when judging (if I can do it, everyone can do it). Another stated that we already a point difference between 1st & 2nd tree, so they didn't think we needed this rule.

Both are valid points that I can agree with, BUT I'm tired of seeing a dog get 75 pts. when it gets there at 4 min 50 sec.. Or if 2 dogs get treed & after 1 handler makes the 1st tree call for 125, the other handler won't tree until the 5 is almost up just to see if they are going to leave or stay treed. To me, these are 2 good reasons to have a countdown, but since it was defeated, I'll hunt with the rules in place just like before. Take care, Ron

I agree with you Ron. i'm tired of dogs getting treed in at 4:59 and getting 75.

Posted by Cynthia on 09-07-2016 09:54 PM:

I didn't know there was supposed to be a membership meeting at AO. maybe that's why there was not enough to vote.

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Posted by mnash88 on 09-07-2016 10:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by quail ck kennel
It's to the point where we are treeing trees not coon. Going to the countdown on tree will just mean breeding dogs to tree more trees than coon. If that's the kind of dog you want to hunt I say hunt the other kc hunts instead of trying to make all rules the same. That way it gives more hunters an option on what rules they want to hunt and the type of dog they want to breed for. Jmo.

Yes! I personally don't really care either way whether there's a countdown or not - I see advantages and disadvantages to both. We hunt UKC and ACHA. ACHA has a countdown while UKC does not. I don't understand why UKC is trying to be like other KC's. Why have different KC's if they're all going to the same type of rules?

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Posted by mnash88 on 09-07-2016 10:02 PM:

Also, hubby and I would have likely attended a rules meeting if we knew they were trying to get member input from members at AO.

Posted by everett on 09-07-2016 10:56 PM:

change yourinf

It doesnt matter if you change your mind or not, a majority vote by the members should stand , in reality only about 9% of the memberships vote counted, why the revote anyway, just trying to understand

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Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-08-2016 01:49 AM:

everett

That is what our reps turned in, but what I didn't agree with it only took in people that was at the meeting at AO. Don't blame our reps for any wrong dueing because they marked our ballot according to vote taken at AO of our members present. Darren told me today he believes there was only 1 other asso. that bothered to have a meeting for members to give their input on how the rules would be voted on.

In case some missed it, I will explain again how this Sat. afternoon meeting came to be. Before this year the reps went into the meeting to discuss the proposals, a vote was taken at end of discussion & it passed or failed. This year they took a 'straw vote' & at that time, BBOA cast a yes vote, so countdown rule would have passed 4-3. For the 1st time ever, UKC gave each asso. the oppurtunity to meet with members present (on the grounds) to further discuss these issues & turn our ballots in by 3 pm. This where the 2nd vote by our asso. members happened & was defeated by a 5 for/25against, so BBOA voted against our own proposal. There was nothing hidden by our reps or association in the least bit, that is just the way it worked this year. Now we will play this game for the next 3 yrs. with the rules we have.

For those that did not know a meeting was going to take place, I will apoligize on not getting the word out to all members on the grounds on Sat. But, like I said, this is the 1st time it ever happened. In 3 yrs., if UKC has the same policy, it can be announced beforehand that a meeting will be held at 1:30 in a certain spot for all members on grounds to take part in, if they want to be present.

I hope this helps everyone to understand better about what happened, but DON'T point any fingers at our reps (officers) about voting wrong on this issue or all issues, because NOTHING was done behind anyones back.

amblue- you'll have to ck with Darren about how we voted on other issues or wait for UKC to put it in print, because I don't remember how all votes went. Truthfully, I was to upset about this vote on #1, I wasn't paying attention.

Time to go tree a coon & my 1 fingure that I use to type with is getting sore. Take care, Ron

Posted by mnash88 on 09-08-2016 03:46 PM:

Re: everett

quote:
Originally posted by Rolin Blues
In 3 yrs., if UKC has the same policy, it can be announced beforehand that a meeting will be held at 1:30 in a certain spot for all members on grounds to take part in, if they want to be present.

That sounds like a great idea!

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