UKC Forums - Squall rule and count down

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-- Squall rule and count down (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928459907)

Posted by Jack Bingham on 08-23-2016 11:06 PM:

Squall rule and count down

Who all would like to see these two rules changed. I for one would. I know several guys that would hunt UKC if it were'nt for these 2 rules.

It's going to be voted on next week so voice your opinion..

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Posted by jkhutch on 08-24-2016 01:29 AM:

I petty much like all the rules proposed. I just hope we nominated good representatives to be at the meeting

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Posted by elvis on 08-24-2016 02:46 AM:

Bingham you seem to be doing well with the way the rules are now, and I'm betting your having a lot of fun doing it.

Posted by Tony Dominguez on 08-24-2016 11:02 AM:

I feel it should be a 30 second tree count down & you should be able to squall as soon as you start shining. The dog had 5 min to get there, if it wasn't there by then & a coon is seen he should be -.... JMO! I think these are great changes by UKC!

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Posted by fdcooner on 08-24-2016 02:55 PM:

I think those 2 rules need changed, I agree with them. I also think proposal 3, rule 4 should be changed as well.

Proposal 3 - Rule 4. POINTS WILL BE MINUS (Strike Minus):
Add to Read: (a) When dog quits trail that is being worked and comes in to cast or comes into tree after the judge arrives. (remove Rule 5b)

Clarification:
This would eliminate Rule 5(b) and minus the strike points of any dog that comes in to the cast or to the tree after the judge arrived.

What do you guys think about the 3rd proposal? This is just my 2 cents. I for hope hope at least the squall and countdown get passed.

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Posted by rickp on 08-24-2016 04:56 PM:

If your going to hunt PKC rules why go to a UKC hunt . JMO

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2016 04:59 PM:

Oh my goodness, the guys that hunt in PKC hunts want the UKC rules changed so they can hunt their "style" of Professional dogs in UKC hunts and use their "style" of Professional handling. Why don't they just keep hunting in PKC hunts and let the UKC hunters hunt in UKC hunts. Why do they want to change the rules to suit them and their dogs? We have had these rules for many years. If the Pro handlers want to hunt in UKC, why don't they just change to fit the UKC rules as they are? Isn't there a big PKC hunt next week called the Labor Day Classic? If they change all of those rules, they might as well just combine the two hunts. And be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Do you really want those big time Professional handlers coming over and hunting in UKC hunts?

Posted by elvis on 08-24-2016 05:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, the guys that hunt in PKC hunts want the UKC rules changed so they can hunt their "style" of Professional dogs in UKC hunts and use their "style" of Professional handling. Why don't they just keep hunting in PKC hunts and let the UKC hunters hunt in UKC hunts. Why do they want to change the rules to suit them and their dogs? We have had these rules for many years. If the Pro handlers want to hunt in UKC, why don't they just change to fit the UKC rules as they are? Isn't there a big PKC hunt next week called the Labor Day Classic? If they change all of those rules, they might as well just combine the two hunts. And be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Do you really want those big time Professional handlers coming over and hunting in UKC hunts?

AMEN
PREACH ON BROTHER.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2016 06:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch
I pretty much like all the rules proposed. I just hope we nominated good representatives to be at the meeting

Oh my goodness, another young Professional handler. Isn't your dog in 4th place in the PKC Redbone Breed Standings?

I see where one of our representatives is a UKC Master Handler. I wonder if he will vote his conscience or be swayed by public opinion? If I could find out his phone #, I would give him a call.

Posted by Corey Gruver on 08-24-2016 07:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, the guys that hunt in PKC hunts want the UKC rules changed so they can hunt their "style" of Professional dogs in UKC hunts and use their "style" of Professional handling. Why don't they just keep hunting in PKC hunts and let the UKC hunters hunt in UKC hunts. Why do they want to change the rules to suit them and their dogs? We have had these rules for many years. If the Pro handlers want to hunt in UKC, why don't they just change to fit the UKC rules as they are? Isn't there a big PKC hunt next week called the Labor Day Classic? If they change all of those rules, they might as well just combine the two hunts. And be careful what you ask for, you might get it. Do you really want those big time Professional handlers coming over and hunting in UKC hunts?

AMEN!

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2016 07:39 PM:

Oh my goodness, it looks like I have a congregation. I might have to bring an offering plate with me to AO.

Posted by Tim MACHA on 08-24-2016 07:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, it looks like I have a congregation. I might have to bring an offering plate with me to AO.

Offering plate? We are all bowing down to the King now. We are afraid to look the King in the eye, as we aren't worthy.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2016 08:00 PM:

Oh my goodness, that countdown rule would put me out even when my dog treed first. It takes me at least a minute to realize that she is treed and then get the words out. Why should my dog be penalized just beause I am so slow? I guess that I will have to get/breed me one of those deep and lonely dogs that is so independant and tight mouthed that it takes another dog 3 or 4 min to get to it. But then it would take me the whole hunt to walk to it.

Posted by timber hunter on 08-24-2016 10:56 PM:

Count down rule

we are not PKC

Posted by Jack Bingham on 08-24-2016 11:59 PM:

Let's face it there's a lot of young guys out there that won't hunt Ukc without the count down. The post on this thread so far are by the older crowd and some that don't even hunt anymore. What's gonna happen to Ukc when we're done.

Elvis I have been doing alright in the hunts but mostly in the other KC with a count down.

Richard what would be wrong with having some big time handlers as you call them to come over to UKC are you scared of them.

No one yet has been able to tell me why there dog deserves 75 after covering at 4:55. If there covering that late you need to do more work at home.

This is the kinda thinking that keeps the redbone breed suppressed instead of moving it forward. Don't expect different results when you do the same thing over and over.

It's hard to beat a dog that gets a piece of everything at 75 for covering everything instead of doing its own thing.

Some of the people that don't want the change know they can't win with a count down.

Posted by B Weatherford on 08-25-2016 12:58 AM:

Minus for quitting a track?

Is this a rule change? If so why would you want it? My reason for this is it will be misused. Guys will be minusing dogs that don't come into cast or tree after Judge arrives. They will use it on dogs not treeing off the end of a track. Saying they quit there track they get minus. If they come into a cast after being struck and stop aren't they minused now? Maybe I am misunderstanding. If so my mistake.

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Posted by jdgher on 08-25-2016 01:31 AM:

Re: Minus for quitting a track?

quote:
Originally posted by B Weatherford
Is this a rule change? If so why would you want it? My reason for this is it will be misused. Guys will be minusing dogs that don't come into cast or tree after Judge arrives. They will use it on dogs not treeing off the end of a track. Saying they quit there track they get minus. If they come into a cast after being struck and stop aren't they minused now? Maybe I am misunderstanding. If so my mistake.

I'm guessing here: This rule change may be so that a dog gets minus strike points for coming into the tree after the judge arrives no matter what. As it is now the dog gets minus if coon is seen.
I've always thought it was strange that a empty tree protects a late arriving dog from getting minus strike points. I figure the dog either quit a track or was slow so minus points should be applied.
The only reason I figure this rule is the way it is now has to do with pressure. A bunch of people going into a tree with dogs treed puts undue pressure on other dogs to show up and see if those other dogs are right or wrong. HAHA.

Seriously: Maybe we should allow the dog to come in and check the tree and leave out of there (not get handled).

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Posted by Tim Trone on 08-25-2016 01:51 AM:

Tell em Jack!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
Let's face it there's a lot of young guys out there that won't hunt Ukc without the count down. The post on this thread so far are by the older crowd and some that don't even hunt anymore. What's gonna happen to Ukc when we're done.

Elvis I have been doing alright in the hunts but mostly in the other KC with a count down.

Richard what would be wrong with having some big time handlers as you call them to come over to UKC are you scared of them.

No one yet has been able to tell me why there dog deserves 75 after covering at 4:55. If there covering that late you need to do more work at home.

This is the kinda thinking that keeps the redbone breed suppressed instead of moving it forward. Don't expect different results when you do the same thing over and over.

It's hard to beat a dog that gets a piece of everything at 75 for covering everything instead of doing its own thing.

Some of the people that don't want the change know they can't win with a count down.

Posted by rickp on 08-25-2016 01:54 AM:

So let's let slick treeing dogs be sqalled at while a dog is working a hard track so we can minus for coming in to in to the tree

Posted by Chris Snyder on 08-25-2016 03:56 AM:

My Opinion

It doesn't matter to me what direction this goes. I will still hunt in the hunts and still have a good time when I go. I've beaten and been beat by stone cold loners and pack dogs alike. Make whatever rule you want, the cream will still rise.

A countdown rule is just one more reason for me not to ever want to judge a cast again. I can barely keep time the way it is now, much less counting down two or three split trees. LOL

Posted by elvis on 08-25-2016 04:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham

No one yet has been able to tell me why there dog deserves 75 after covering at 4:55. If there covering that late you need to do more work at home.

why don't you think this dog deserves 75 minus if the tree is slick?

you know as well as I do the countdown is just another handler tool to only take a quarter when the situation call for it.

how often do you get beat by a dog covering that late?

Posted by Rolin Blues on 08-25-2016 05:47 AM:

Tony

Lets not press our luck & just hope the rule as proposed passes.

Jack- i'll see you at your church- PREACH ON BROTHER. It's time for a little change & i am an OLD ukc/pkc hunter, as you could tell the other night on our cast!!! Take care, Ron.

Posted by okreddog56 on 08-25-2016 05:47 AM:

CHANGE IF YOU WANT OR LEAVE IT LIKE IT IS IT DON'T MATTER TO ME,I AM NOT MUCH ON HUNTING COVER DOGS,SO A CHANGE WOULD PROBABLY HELP ME,BUT I AM OK THE WAY IT IS.

Posted by Tony Dominguez on 08-25-2016 06:27 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by rickp
So let's let slick treeing dogs be sqalled at while a dog is working a hard track so we can minus for coming in to in to the tree

Actually they would get deleted not - if a dog comes into a closed tree a coon is not scored in... If they come in after the 5 they shouldn't be there anyway. JMO

Posted by oklared on 08-25-2016 03:29 PM:

ARE WE ALSO GOING TO AWARD A DOG A WIN FOR MINUSE POINTS, DOES HE DESERVE IT. KINDA LIKE WINNING A FISHING DERBY AND NOT CATCHIN A FISH BUT WHO GOT THE MOST NIBBLES.

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