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acceptable accuracy?

I had an interesting conversation with a fella today and Im just curious what y'alls opinion is....

I was inquiring about a dog and wanted a solid summary of him. The guy described him as being not accurate enough and said that he was only around 60%.

My thoughts were that 6 coon out of 10 trees really isn't terrible, but I was told that was mediocre at best. I've hunted with some very nice hounds all over the country and I've never seen one that was "90% accurate"... The best dog I've ever been in the woods with had all his trees documented over the course of a season and he was around 75%...In those calculations, circle trees were not counted as you didn't know if the coon was truly there or not and he was graded HARD.... I won't drop any names or anything like that but this is a NICE hound that's done a heap of winning...

I guess my question is, what is an acceptable percentage for you and have you ever truly calculated the dogs accuracy?

Thank in advance.

__________________
Curtis J Todd
912-618-8412

Team Blazin' Timber

Re: acceptable accuracy?

quote:

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Originally posted by Bayin'Blues
I had an interesting conversation with a fella today and Im just curious what y'alls opinion is....

I was inquiring about a dog and wanted a solid summary of him. The guy described him as being not accurate enough and said that he was only around 60%.

My thoughts were that 6 coon out of 10 trees really isn't terrible, but I was told that was mediocre at best. I've hunted with some very nice hounds all over the country and I've never seen one that was "90% accurate"... The best dog I've ever been in the woods with had all his trees documented over the course of a season and he was around 75%...In those calculations, circle trees were not counted as you didn't know if the coon was truly there or not and he was graded HARD.... I won't drop any names or anything like that but this is a NICE hound that's done a heap of winning...

I guess my question is, what is an acceptable percentage for you and have you ever truly calculated the dogs accuracy?

Thank in advance.

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
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Re: Re: acceptable accuracy?

quote:

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Originally posted by joey
Yes over the course of a year she was over 70% but circle trees were counted against her. You cant discount circle trees if you are going to do a %. This I can tell you most of the ones that are there can be found in the summer if you look hard enough. Ever notice on a hunt that accurate dogs are even accurate in the summer? This is the thing about getting numbers from someone on there hound. Most people are not even honest with them self's about it, they sure aren't going to be with you.

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__________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
Mark Twain

The person I talked to had no true ties to the hound in question and is a credible resource im told. He was handling him for his owner. I feel in this case he is being honest but I believe he is counting both slicks and circles into his grand totals.

As far as counting TRUE circles when calculating accuracy, I don't see how you could? Its not fair to the dog's percentage. It's not his fault you can't see him in a den tree, in a large nest, or balled up under a large clump of moss.

__________________
Curtis J Todd
912-618-8412

Team Blazin' Timber

If you have a dog that is hunted year round in all conditions, alone and with company and you see eyes in 60% of the trees you have a pretty nice dog. Like joey said lots of guys cant even be honest with themselves.
There are for sure dogs that are more accurate but i cant tolerate a dog that does alot of checking before they settle.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

.

Forget the numbers. At the end of the night if your have any experience at all coon hunting you know if your dog had the coon or not, even if you never saw one of them.

Now lets say a dog is truly a 60% dog and then you minus the percentages that leaves hide and dens take away from you seeing the coon. You have about a 30% hound which isn't good.

There is one word here that I think is important. Confidence.
That is not the dog having confidence but us having Confidence in the hound. If you have a hound that no matter what the number of coon you see is and you have Confidence that hound is treeing real live coon then that dog is for you.

We all talk about leaves and not being able to find the coon. It is simply amazing and something that cannot be explained but if the coon is there in most cases they are found. Yes they can hide and how do we learn that. By finding those rascals that are hiding and we can't believe we found them, but we did. I have walked away form 20 foot pine trees shaking my head only to look back one more time and find the coon. I have shot up into the bud of a pine tree that I would think didn't have a coon only to hit it and have it fall out. They can hide but you as a hunter build confidence in your hound and that tells you how accurate he/she is.
Accurate enough to keep my confidence up and they are a keeper.

Michael and John are right on the money.

What is the determining factor of accuracy? It is A COON SEEN.

At the end of the day,it should be real simple, you either see a coon, or you don't.

Like John eluded to, even those 2 out of 3 year round models are not easily found.

Truth be told, I would guess the yearly national average is 35-40%.

These ramblings and a couple George Washingtons may be good for a cup of coffee at some fine establishments in the good old USA

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Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

The only numbers I worry about are how many times the owner/handler is willing to put up a weeks pay every time the dog trees.

I've owned 2 over the years that I would have bet my paycheck against yours , on every tree , before we ever left the house.
If those kind of dogs were the only ones being bred , we'd have a lot more of them !
But , instead , we have all kinds of excuses and keep breeding junk.

__________________
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Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

.

How many of us will agree that the geographic location and coon population has something to do with the dogs accuracy.

We come on here and we are from Maine to FL and out to CA.

I can guarantee you that some low accuracy tree dogs down here would shine in high population pop up coon areas. I can guarantee you that some of your dogs that are hunted in high population areas would not look so good when they have to work hard to tree one or two coon a night.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just trying to bring some realization to the conversation that we being from 20 or 30 different states won't have the same answer. The answer is how your dog performs in your location and the confidence you have in that dog showing you coon where you hunt and the time of year you hunt. The only way that is determined is but hunting the hound and hunting it on a regular basis.

UNACCEPTABLE accuracy?

I believe what people except is their business. I'm curious what happens when accuracy is UNACCEPTABLE?
I believe way more are sold or even breed than properly terminated, and that's the problem.

__________________
Shane

quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
UNACCEPTABLE accuracy?

I believe what people except is their business. I'm curious what happens when accuracy is UNACCEPTABLE?
I believe way more are sold or even breed than properly terminated, and that's the problem.

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__________________
......if you have more circle than plus points you ain't got a coon dog

I got a 2 yr old I been keeping up with last little bit and have walked to 33 trees and only 19 of them had coon. I though he was more accurate in that. Time to cull him I guess.

__________________
NiteCh GrCh 'Pr' Stylish Rebel (1 win to GrNite)
GrCh 'Pr' Cain's Insane Annie

quote:

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Originally posted by Jared Luttrell
I got a 2 yr old I been keeping up with last little bit and have walked to 33 trees and only 19 of them had coon. I though he was more accurate in that. Time to cull him I guess.

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__________________
Shane

There are some very interesting opinons y'all are putting out there. I think Im following what Bruce is saying with being confident in your hound.

A female I owned a few years ago was probably the most accurate dog I've had.. I wish I'd calculated her accuracy, but relating ithat to what Bruce said, I was confident in most every tree I went to that I'd see a coon.

I'm going to pick up the hound in question tomorrow afternoon. I'll be hunting him for his owner on a "trial" to see if I think I can win with him. I think I'll carry a notepad and pen to every tree and see what I come up with. Should be a fun experiment!

__________________
Curtis J Todd
912-618-8412

Team Blazin' Timber

quote:

---

Originally posted by shane_atchison
UNACCEPTABLE accuracy?

I believe what people except is their business. I'm curious what happens when accuracy is UNACCEPTABLE?
I believe way more are sold or even breed than properly terminated, and that's the problem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shane_atchison
58% is realistically likely above national average. I believe your sample size is to small to determine true accuracy though. If every hunter kept an accurate log of trees made / coon seen, many would not believe the #s.

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__________________
NiteCh GrCh 'Pr' Stylish Rebel (1 win to GrNite)
GrCh 'Pr' Cain's Insane Annie

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
How many of us will agree that the geographic location and coon population has something to do with the dogs accuracy.

We come on here and we are from Maine to FL and out to CA.

I can guarantee you that some low accuracy tree dogs down here would shine in high population pop up coon areas. I can guarantee you that some of your dogs that are hunted in high population areas would not look so good when they have to work hard to tree one or two coon a night.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just trying to bring some realization to the conversation that we being from 20 or 30 different states won't have the same answer. The answer is how your dog performs in your location and the confidence you have in that dog showing you coon where you hunt and the time of year you hunt. The only way that is determined is but hunting the hound and hunting it on a regular basis.

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__________________
Let's go huntin

I don't consider accuracy as much during the summer (leaves on), but when the leaves come off it is a different story. Leaves on, I go to the tree and do my very best to find the coon. Sometimes you find em and sometimes you don't. I determine how accurate my dogs are when the leaves are off. If they are accurate when leaves are gone, I assume they are accurate with leaves on, same goes if they are slicers without leaves they are when leaves are on.

I don't comp hunt so all I want is for them to strike a track and find the coon.

__________________
ringtail dave

"TREE MY DOG" - NO BETTER FEELING

NAADP Charter Member....... appointed by King Dave himself........

Curtis please remember the last hound he had was and still is truly and honestly a 90% see a ringtail hound. I'm talking go to 100 trees and see 90 coons year round . Never thought I could afford him but the good Lord found a way.and my wife don't know LOL and I'm not knocking his 60% and he knows a dog well

Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
How many of us will agree that the geographic location and coon population has something to do with the dogs accuracy.

I can guarantee you that some low accuracy tree dogs down here would shine in high population pop up coon areas.

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__________________
ringtail dave

"TREE MY DOG" - NO BETTER FEELING

NAADP Charter Member....... appointed by King Dave himself........

Do ya go in hoping to see a coon ....or expecting to see a coon.

__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

Very debatable subject. I can and will tell you if you got one better than 30% in my area in the hard winter you have way better than average. I'm just going to give example. We went to 9 cast last Jan 2015. Our hound was 11 for 16 with 3 dens and possum and one slick. We win around 2k and got a truck ticket that month. We drew 27 dogs spent 18 on a stop watch the other hounds we drew treed one coon seen out of about 25 trees scored. Now the next Jan mine struggled with hers. But I can tell she's the most accurate I've ever seen with pressure on her in cast situations. We did keep a close count for about 40 cast and she was around 80-85%. Now the last 10 not even close. What I've found is people forget about those funks a hound gets in the same way a professional athelets do. I can honestly say I've walked behind a true 70% actual cast coon seen hound including the funks. Now in April 2014 she was ran hard and only scored on 2 trees that was not pluses. I think we only lost 2 cast all month. Is it possible to have one that just don't miss. Never seen but have heard from a few people there have been a handful of wipeout dogs that way. But the down side was they would run all night instead of taking a chance on a layup or something. If you want one of those you running dog that will tree. Not a tree dog that will trail.

quote:

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Originally posted by rocky tanner
Curtis please remember the last hound he had was and still is truly and honestly a 90% see a ringtail hound. I'm talking go to 100 trees and see 90 coons year round .

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__________________
Shane

I sure don't count den trees as slick if I have a hound that trees 90% accurate on other trees. If your hound trees 50% slick I'm sure glad he's not at my house. About half of the den trees will be blank also.

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Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)


The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More

Best deal going: I know where a hound is that I will pay $50 on slick trees and you pay $ 20 when they have a coon. We'll hunt it alone for five hours for 5 nights. I'll pay for your motel if you pay $35 on the coon trees.Den trees won't be considered unless coon can be seen from the ground. Bring cash, I live in Kansas and spectators can hunt legal. Phone 620 762 1344. We'll hunt for a month if I don't run out of cash. Accuracy is important to me. We'll keep an accurate account and report the outcome.

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Home Of:
Gr Nt Ch, Ch Natural Smokey River Irene a coondog (Mailes Bob X Nt Ch Utchman Blue Two)
Gr Nt Ch Natural Smokey River Flo UKC Top 20 placing 15th UKC World 2011, top 100 2014 (Rebel x Mailes Lil)


The Hounds I Enjoyed Hunting:
Dual Gr Natural Smokey River Rebel, A buddy of mine
Gr. Nt Natural Blue Echo ( Gr Nt Quail Ck Jimmy X Nt Ch Natural Blue Bell)
Gr Nt Smokey River Chief's Joe (JBS Chief X Gr Nt Jeans Ruby)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Natural Smokey River Lucy (Chief's Joe X Muggins)
And Many More